Ishina

Well, in a way they do. They will be physically represented in the innards of any computer system that has them on record.

Argent Stonecutter

In special relativity, relativistic mass is the mass of the kinetic energy of the object. It is actual mass. It changes depending on the reference frame and is zero in the reference frame of the object, but that's irrelevant for photons since you can't ever be in the reference frame of the photon and if you could the photon wouldn't exist because its wavelength would be infinite. It also doesn't matter, because so much else changes when you're not in the same reference frame and you can't ignore those complementary changes.

For example, when calculating acceleration effects on the object, in your reference frame the result is the same as if the mass was real, due to time dilation. It takes more energy to accelerate a particle from 0.8c to 0.9c than from 0c to 0.1c. Whether you describe that as "accelerating the relativistic mass" or "time dilation" depends on what the purpose of the calculation is. Both interpretations are valid.

When accelerating the object, the relativistic mass is exactly the same as the kinetic energy you added to the object. That's how E=Mc^2 was originally derived.

As for gravity, when you're dealing with relativistic velocities and masses gravity is not actually a force, it's a description of the shape of space time. Special relativity doesn't really deal with gravity, general relativity does, and my physics chops aren't up to calculating frame dragging (or even really understanding it) and all the other bizarre effects of gravity in relativistic regimes.

But for the purpose of a joke about the mass of bitcoins, I think that's getting into overkill territory.

Not to mention that we really need to be looking at information theory and computability and the smallest mass-energy equivalent required to hold a bit, and whether space-time is quantized...

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Argent Stonecutter -- Skyhook Station -- Coonspiracy Store

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."


The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Govi

Apples and oranges...

No. Fizzy water and electron hole migration.

Void

my point was that kinetic energy (or kinetic mass if you want to do the conversion) is not the mass of the object (rest mass), which is independent of frame of reference (and is what you use to calculate kinetic energy, from relative velocity, or vice versa)... they are commonly grouped together for calculations of force, but they are separate things

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Govi

The usual method of measuring an unknown small amount of gold is to use a balance, which measures mass. An accurate balance works properly in all practical gravitational fields. The archaism of using a weight measure -- ounces -- for gold is balanced by the casual use of units of mass -- kilograms -- as equivalent to the weight of a thing.

Variance in earth's gravitational "constant:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravit...ound_the_world

Casey Pelous

I know we're famous for this sort of thing, but the magnitude of derail in this thread combined with the .... shall we say, "somewhat refined" nature of the derail .....

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Govi

Void

ya gotta admit, it's a hell of lot more interesting and informative than the topic = X

Wanda Belinda

Argent Stonecutter

You want extreme physics?

Remember that Red Nova thread, and I made that reference to the Lacerta event in Diaspora? Turns out Greg Egan is coming out with a new book set in a universe with hyperbolic geometry and where it takes infinite energy to turn 90 degrees.

Dichronauts — Greg Egan

GEEEEEEEK OUT

Void

and here I thought Poul Anderson did some good HARD SF... holy crap

jacqueline trudeau

All I know is, if we move to bitcoin as the currency what am I going to use to scratch off my lotto cards???

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Argent Stonecutter

Oh, you're not familiar with Greg Egan's ouvré? His stuff is about 11 on the Mohs scale.

Jopsy Pendragon

I'll try it. The whole country is about to have a bad case of PTSD.

"Pampered Thug Shitty Dictator"

Arkady Arkright

Something similar has been written before - Inverted World by Christopher Priest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_World
I remembered this book as soon as I read Argent's post, despite having read it only once, and that over 40 years ago.

...and full marks to Google search - I couldn't recall either title or author, but a Google search for science fiction city on wheels strange geometry brought it up as the second hit.

Argent Stonecutter

Point. I liked Inverted World too but on a Mohs Scale of SF hardness Christopher Priest is about 3. Greg Egan invents new physics AND does the math to make it work.

Also recommend Karl Schroeder, Peter Watts, and Charlie Stross if you want a bit of science and engineering with your fantastic fiction.

Kara Spengler

When I stumble into a physics discussion and have absolutely no idea what is going on I realize maybe it would be good to read the thread from the OP instead. Or at least track down some caffeine.

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Arkady Arkright

Especially Peter Watts.

Although I personally prefer a bit of imagination and a good sense of adventure - e.g. Pippa Da Costa, Kameron Hurley, Ann Leckie, Veronica Roth etc..

Void

Blindsight? heh, good book, not an especially hard read... didn't agree with the conclusions, but the writing was good. available free here

Argent Stonecutter

For a more gonzo look at the future, in a gratis eBook, try Accelerando.

Surreal

And you can't eat either.

DanielRavenNest

Money is useful because it saves you from having to barter for everything you want. When it stops performing that function (see Zimbabwe and Venezuela), people resort to barter, or find something else to use as money. The only money you could eat was the occasional culture that used cattle, or medieval peoples who paid in kind, because there was a shortage of silver coinage.

Drongle

"The only money you could eat ..."
But our new money is made of meat !

Void

True, but pointless... non durable goods make for horrible currency. tools, land, housing, clothing, things that last and have a longer stable lifetime make for much better barter currency.

Govi

Hostess Twinkies, then?