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Old 01-06-2017, 12:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Shooting At Ft. Lauderdale Airport

This is ongoing:

3 Dead, Multiple Injured in Shooting at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport | NBC 6 South Florida
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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They have the guy in custody, thankfully.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Broward Sheriff is confirming 5 dead, now.

TSA: Unconfirmed active shooter at FLL; Broward Sheriff confirms 5 dead, 8 hurt at earlier shooting – WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Shooting at airport, TSA no help at all.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Apparently it happened at a part of the airport that the TSA doesn't manage - although aren't TSA screeners unarmed?

From local news

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Investigators said the gunman flew to Fort Lauderdale from Canada and had a gun in his checked baggage. He claimed his baggage at the airport, went into the bathroom where he apparently loaded the gun and came out shooting.

Florida Senator Bill Nelson said the shooter was identified as 26-year-old Esteban Santiago. Nelson said a TSA administrator and director of the airport told him that the shooter was carrying a military I.D. with that name. ABC News confirmed the suspect's name with law enforcement sources.

A witness tells ABC News that a man with a gun shouted "I'm not Jewish, I'm not Jewish" before he started shooting.
Other reports say the guy was dressed in regular clothes (a Star Wars shirt, specifically) and that he just shot through however much ammunition he had on him and then laid down on the ground to wait to be arrested.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Apparently it happened at a part of the airport that the TSA doesn't manage - although aren't TSA screeners unarmed?
The tsa being useless was my point. If someone wants to mow people down they can do it with a truck or even at the airport in a part the tsa doesn't monitor.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Days before the Fort Lauderdale shooting, the state legislature was considering an open carry bill
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
The tsa being useless was my point. If someone wants to mow people down they can do it with a truck or even at the airport in a part the tsa doesn't monitor.
Security checkpoints are pinch points that create crowds and are therefore best at providing big groups for people to target.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I can't bring nail clipers on the plane but I guess it is OK to pack my .45 in my bag.

I think we need to have 2nd graders make our laws ... They have better common sense than our current batch of BIC's (Bozo's in Charge).
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Someone sneaks on a shoe for a plot and fails. Restrictions.

Someone tries to use a liquid in a water bottle for a plot and fails. Restrictions.

Someone checks a gun for a plot and kills 5 people (plus critically wounds more). Pundits are already saying they do not expect restrictions.

Can someone stop the planet so us sane people can get off?
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
Security checkpoints are pinch points that create crowds and are therefore best at providing big groups for people to target.
Yes, they are obvious security theater. Worse that that, they make security worse not just because they create a big target but because after them some people assume everything they see is good because the TSA has already checked it (so do not report stuff they otherwise would).
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Crowded places like airports, shopping centers, theaters, sport events, pop concerts and other public gatherings are never 100% secured. It would be so expensive and time consuming that it would not be workable and at the same time totally frustrating its visitors.

Sadly, we have to accept that these things happen occasionally despite all the security efforts , just as we accept that traffic kills people occasionally as well, despite all rules, regulations and police efforts.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Baggage claim isn't a TSA managed area, it's public. You cannot bring a gun in a carryon, but you can pack it in checked. Just like nail clippers.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sid II View Post
Crowded places like airports, shopping centers, theaters, sport events, pop concerts and other public gatherings are never 100% secured. It would be so expensive and time consuming that it would not be workable and at the same time totally frustrating its visitors.

Sadly, we have to accept that these things happen occasionally despite all the security efforts , just as we accept that traffic kills people occasionally as well, despite all rules, regulations and police efforts.
See what I mean? A crazy plot fails and we get more regs bestowed on us. A plot ANYONE can understand meets with success and we get 'sucks but what can you do'.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Baggage claim isn't a TSA managed area, it's public. You cannot bring a gun in a carryon, but you can pack it in checked. Just like nail clippers.
It may not be TSA-secured but baggage claim is still an area that is secured. Actually, the #s of them saying weapons the TSA confiscated are made up .... they get inflated by non-weapons (replica grenades, nailclippers) and deflated by them missing 95% of the test objects they should have stopped.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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See what I mean? A crazy plot fails and we get more regs bestowed on us. A plot ANYONE can understand meets with success and we get 'sucks but what can you do'.
They have long known that risk in the public entry and exit areas are a greater threat than those at the gate or in the plane. The airlines have not addressed them because A) fixing them would cost a great deal of money and B) fixing them would negatively impact travelers a lot and C) a combination of A & B.

I go in and out of Fort Lauderdale airport a couple of times a month. The baggage areas are not secured. Anyone can walk into a baggage or for that matter, the ticketing area with no screening. It's this way at most airports (remember the shooting at LAX)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_L...rport_shooting

They could do something like forbid transport of ammunition with the gun. But it's way after the fact and I think that cat is out of the bag now.

Honestly, I think that the best way this tragedy in Fort Lauderdale could have been prevented would have been to not have returned this man's guns in the first place.

Quote:
(CNN)He was incoherent and agitated. Voices in his head told him to join ISIS, according to law enforcement sources.

Authorities were so concerned when Esteban Santiago visited the FBI Anchorage, Alaska, office in November that they confiscated his gun and ordered a mental health evaluation. A month later, Santiago retrieved the weapon from police headquarters.

Last week, Santiago, 26, used that same gun, law enforcement sources said, to kill five people and wound several others at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport. Santiago confessed to planning the assault, according to court papers.
How did Fort Lauderdale suspect get gun back? - CNN.com

It's bad enough now with all the retrofitting that airports have had to do to accommodate new security screening (such as the TSA and XRay of checked bags). Airports are maxed out on what they can continue to accommodate without completely alienating the passengers.

What we really need to do is update our infrastructure and in doing so, re-think physical and logical security as well as passenger convenience completely. What we are using is bursting at the seams and we just don't seem to understand that we need to buckle down, pay more taxes and get it fixed or we will become a poor, non-industrialized, non-growth country.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
It may not be TSA-secured but baggage claim is still an area that is secured. Actually, the #s of them saying weapons the TSA confiscated are made up .... they get inflated by non-weapons (replica grenades, nailclippers) and deflated by them missing 95% of the test objects they should have stopped.
Anyone bringing a replica hand grenade through a TSA security check deserves a full body cavity search.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think the idea that insecure parts of airports need to be secured is misguided. The point of airport security is that airplanes that can hold hundreds of people are safe. The baggage claim area is no different than a crowded mall. Either one can be shot up by someone with a gun.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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you also have to remember that they aren't protecting people... they're protecting property, gate terminals and airplanes are expensive, and they have priorities.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose Karuna View Post
What we really need to do is update our infrastructure and in doing so, re-think physical and logical security as well as passenger convenience completely. What we are using is bursting at the seams and we just don't seem to understand that we need to buckle down, pay more taxes and get it fixed or we will become a poor, non-industrialized, non-growth country.
That's certainly the RIGHT way to do it; but I fear that tearing down airport terminals and rebuilding them with security in mind in the end will be a much more expensive endeavor than just putting a couple extra city cops in the non-TSA areas of the airport.
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