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Old 01-04-2017, 05:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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New U.S. Military Guidelines for Religious Accommodations and Grooming


Coming Soon to the U.S. Army: Turbans, Beards, Hijabs, and Cornrows - The Atlantic

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In the final days of the Obama administration, the military has issued new guidelines for religious accommodations and dress.

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Old 01-04-2017, 05:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This ought to cause a huge shit-storm and a lot of righteous indignation from "patriots" everywhere.

Disclaimer: Within this context, "patriot" means white, evangelical, Christians who bring up the fact that their grandfather served in the military during <insert name of war of conflict here>, as if military service honors transcend generations and are something that they inherit, despite probably never having served themselves.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Briar Bing View Post
This ought to cause a huge shit-storm and a lot of righteous indignation from "patriots" everywhere.

Disclaimer: Within this context, "patriot" means white, evangelical, Christians who bring up the fact that their grandfather served in the military during <insert name of war of conflict here>, as if military service honors transcend generations and are something that they inherit, despite probably never having served themselves.
Man, I really hope not considering how many of us let out beard and hair go when we were stuck in some shit city in country.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Man, I really hope not considering how many of us let out beard and hair go when we were stuck in some shit city in country.
I seem to recall that they allowed neat mustaches but not beards, back in the early 1970s (USAF/SAC).
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I seem to recall that they allowed neat mustaches but not beards, back in the early 1970s (USAF/SAC).
Mustaches were allowed when I served in the army during the Reagan years. They were regulated though. Couldn't cover your upper lip or extend beyond the corners of your mouth. Beards were not OK, however, as you said.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Briar Bing View Post
Mustaches were allowed when I served in the army during the Reagan years. They were regulated though. Couldn't cover your upper lip or extend beyond the corners of your mouth. Beards were not OK, however, as you said.
I asked a serving British army officer about this restriction - he said it was because a gas-mask wouldn't seal properly unless there was just skin behind it.

eta: before someone states the obvious, he was referring to 'riot-control' gasses like CS, not full-out 'war gasses'.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Briar Bing View Post
This ought to cause a huge shit-storm and a lot of righteous indignation from "patriots" everywhere.

Disclaimer: Within this context, "patriot" means white, evangelical, Christians who bring up the fact that their grandfather served in the military during <insert name of war of conflict here>, as if military service honors transcend generations and are something that they inherit, despite probably never having served themselves.
quite unlike white guilt for slavery 200 years ago, and the 'white privilege' they enjoy today as a result (of dying by the millions to end slavery).
right? of course. cos left is always right.

muslims in the military sounds like the stupidest idea in the world imo.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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quite unlike white guilt for slavery 200 years ago, and the 'white privilege' they enjoy today as a result (of dying by the millions to end slavery).
right? of course. cos left is always right.

muslims in the military sounds like the stupidest idea in the world imo.
Muslims have served in the US Militia or Military since the revolutionary war. I imagine just about anything sounds "like the stupidest idea in the world" when you are woefully ignorant of a little military history.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Adblocker so no idea what the article says. What about minority religions or do they not count for some bizarre reason? For example, in eclectic paganism/eclectic wicca you can have a religion that consists of 1 person (whether or not they do things in their religion with other eclectics).
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wrong Weatherwax View Post
Muslims have served in the US Militia or Military since the revolutionary war. I imagine just about anything sounds "like the stupidest idea in the world" when you are woefully ignorant of a little military history.
Or, y'know, woefully ignorant. Period.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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muslims in the military sounds like the stupidest idea in the world imo.
As stupid as Christians? After all, they produced people like Timothy McVeigh who blew up a federal building.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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muslims in the military sounds like the stupidest idea in the world imo.
The article is not about Muslims, it is about Sikhs, who have a reputation of being pretty much heroic when serving in various world militaries. One of the major parts of their faith is to defend themselves and others from oppressors... Something that is pretty darn good for someone in the military.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The article is not about Muslims, it is about Sikhs, who have a reputation of being pretty much heroic when serving in various world militaries. One of the major parts of their faith is to defend themselves and others from oppressors... Something that is pretty darn good for someone in the military.
sikhs? i totally approve.
hindus, buddhists, scientologists, black, yellow, brown, its all ok with me.
but muslims in the military? hell no.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Randomly, I'll have to read up on the cornrows thing because the Navy allowed cornrows, for women at least, when I was in.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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muslims in the military sounds like the stupidest idea in the world imo.
oh I dunno - your parents were allowed to breed; that's a lot stupider.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
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quite unlike white guilt for slavery 200 years ago, and the 'white privilege' they enjoy today as a result (of dying by the millions to end slavery).
Complaining about "white guilt" seems to be an alt-right (AKA neo-nazi) thing.

However, privilege is in fact inherited. Example: Donald Trump.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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As stupid as Christians? After all, they produced people like Timothy McVeigh who blew up a federal building.

Christians = Thou shalt not kill

What's wrong with this picture?
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Christians = Thou shalt not kill

What's wrong with this picture?
I am guessing if you broke down acts of violence by religion most of them would be done by the ones most prevalent in an area with the runners up being the ones most prevalent in the world. For some reason the Rs focus on the ones that are caused by Muslims while completely ignoring the many every day that are caused by Christians.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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if you willing to die for a country and take orders from crazy people in Washington.Does it really matter what background you are from?

Muslim and Christianity are the two biggest groups. the chances of the person causing an act of violence falling into one of these categories are much greater but it doesn't mean that it was apart of the influence behind the act.

There are people who are just practicing the religion( Ex: prays alitte but only goes to church on christmas and easter) and there are people go to church all the time who carry the bible with them all the time and can recite a part from memory down to the page number and line ( same with the Koran). This isn't really considered when talking about someones faith unfortunately, it's just assumed you automatically do everything involved with that religion.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I asked a serving British army officer about this restriction - he said it was because a gas-mask wouldn't seal properly unless there was just skin behind it.

eta: before someone states the obvious, he was referring to 'riot-control' gasses like CS, not full-out 'war gasses'.
The MoD guidelines say
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Muslim men may wear neatly trimmed beards. Sikh men can wear their beards, and their hair long in the Sikh tradition. They are also required to keep their beards neat. In the case of the latter, those who are fully practicing Sikhs and are required to keep their hair, including facial hair uncut, may keep their uncut beard folded and tied under the chin.

a. Aircrew Muslim personnel may modify their beards as necessary. Sikh Service personnel may wear a patka (small turban) underneath their headgear. However, for some trades wearing a patka (small turban) is not always compatible, Further advice on this matter can be obtained from the Sikh Chaplain to the Armed Forces.

b. Respirator Where a respirator is worn, an effective seal is necessary in order to meet Health and Safety requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ion_belief.pdf

This is echoed on the Army's recruitment website:
Quote:
Muslim soldiers may wear a full beard. Beards may remain uncut and worn in accordance with Islamic tradition as long as operational mission and safety are not risked (eg if a respirator needs to be worn the beard will have to be trimmed accordingly).

[....]

A turban (or patka) may be worn by Sikh soldiers with all orders of dress, subject to safety and operational considerations (for example if a helmet is required on operations). Kanga, Kara, Kacha and Kirpans may be worn, and a beard may be worn and remain uncut, provided that operational effectiveness and health and safety are not at risk.
Diversity - British Army Website

That is, at least as I understand the policy, men in the army are generally allowed to wear beards for religious reasons, on the understanding that they may be required to shave them if necessary.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That is, at least as I understand the policy, men in the army are generally allowed to wear beards for religious reasons, on the understanding that they may be required to shave them if necessary.
I wonder how they get through the periodic gas-mask refresher exercises ? Maybe they're excused participation.

eta: I asked the officer this question some 25 years ago, things may be different now.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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By some estimates, Muslims make up less than 1% of the U.S. adult population. By 2050, their numbers will grow -- to 2.1%. Of all the Muslims in America, 63% are exactly the kind Trump wants banned -- immigrants.
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Scholars estimate about a quarter to a third of the Africans brought to the United States as slaves were Muslims. Most were then forced to convert to Christianity.
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From September 11, 2001, until the end of 2014, 109 Muslim-Americans plotted against targets in the United States. And terrorism by Muslim-Americans killed 50 in the same time period. Contrast that with the deaths from other mass shootings just last year: 136 -- more than twice as many as all the deaths from 13 years of Muslim-American terrorism.
The truth about Muslims in America - CNN.com


But hey, someone told us we should be afraid, so let's just swallow the pill without a moment of critical thinking.

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Old 01-05-2017, 02:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I wonder how they get through the periodic gas-mask refresher exercises ? Maybe they're excused participation.

eta: I asked the officer this question some 25 years ago, things may be different now.
When I think about it, I still can taste the CS gas from going into that tin shack in BASIC, being forced to remove the mask and recite my name, rank, and SSN. It felt like I had just inhaled hot sewing needles laced with bits of fiberglass. Then, half-blinded, I stumbled towards the only light I could see, hoping it was the door to the outside (it was), and promptly started foaming at the mouth while 3 foot long strings of mucous hung from my nose. Nasty.
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