Joshua Nightshade

No you weren't.

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Digital Digital

If you are a merchant and provide proof of being one then Avination will gladly provide you with upload credits. They do this to help merchants out and transition over. Yes inworldz has no limit I will give them that but at the same time there is so much content theft over there because anyone can just freely upload. I think Avination has a pretty good idea around their upload credits for merchants. Also the upload credits are only for texture uploads they can not be used for anything else I think it's pretty neat :-)

Here is a blurb from Avination website explaining upload credits:

As a content creator, I bring value to your grid. I don't want to pay for that privilege through upload fees!
And you don't have to. As a known content creator committed to selling your products in Avination, you are eligible for upload credits. This is a limited time offer. Please request credits via support ticket, stating your business name, what products you make and give references (location, marketplace listings, etc.) Keep in mind that businesses will be verified, so if you are moving an existing business to Avination from another virtual world, do not close it until you've been approved for upload credits.



And what are those upload credits?
Upload credits are a special kind of C$, which can be used only to pay for uploads. The account page on this website will show you your upload credits and your real C$ balances. Upload credits can't be spent inworld, given to another player, or sold on the exchange. They can only be used to pay for uploads. For technical reasons, the balance in the viewer is the sum total of your upload credits and real C$. Consult the website to see how that sum breaks down.

Autumn Osterham

Since we have this handy Avination thread I'm going to throw some stuff out here. I'll leave the pom poms over there. Since there seem to be a few people that like to hide behind alts on here, in Avination I'm Autumn Osterham and Rosie Hax, been there since Mid October of 2010.

Tech support there is great. But that's not really hard to accomplish with these numbers:



and before one of the fanbois comes along and says that's because everyone is asleep somewhere I'm being generous. I log in there quite a few times a day to check support stuff for my store, numbers hover around 50 and go from a low of 36 to maybe a peak of around 70.

Their history of following through on things they post in their blog is really bad. Here's a link to a perfect example:

Avination crossing borders! « Avination Official Blog

Two months later, nada, not even a word or an answer to posts in the forum specifically asking about this. M in Events is a corpse also, where are they?

They have some things to work on before anyone can realistically say they are the next big thing. Numbers prove otherwise.

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Digital Digital

You can believe what you want to believe

Digital Digital

Hi Rosie )

I do 100% agree with you in a lot of ways. Sadly there is this big stigma against Open-Sims and a lot of rumors and junk that have caused so many people to be against Avination and other OpenSim Grids. The user number need to increase by a lot. I never really looked at the M in Events thing I remember hearing about it but as far as yes I don't know much about that and I will for sure investigate because I'm interested to find out more about this as well.

I think if more people would get involved with Avination and other grids as well and try to give support I think it could thrive a lot better. I will not give up hope and keep helping the user base etc, for me I could never go back to playing in Second Life like I used to. Being a concierge customer and losing the good support it once had really turned it off for me. I personally am a grid hopper I go to many grids however Avination is my main one

There is always room to improve on anything :-)

BTW Rosie your store looks fabulous @ Wildfire Mall :-)

Misty Harley

There as absolutely no need for the sentence I bolded. Please refrain from talking negatively about another grid in order to boost up your own grid. Especially re: copybotting which is found on ALL grids, including but not limited to AVN, IW, SL, OS and anything else out there and most of these grids handle it professionally and fast once a DMCA is issued.

Also...


Sion is 100% right. There is not a commercial grid currently out there that will be able to compete with SL because *all* of them are currently using SL as their litmus test if they are 'doing it right' and not a single one of them really offer anything unique to the user experience that is not already done (either through LL directly or the SL users) in SL.

That is not a slam to any commercial grid but it is hard facts.

When and if any of these upcoming commercial grids introduce something new, something never before seen and then start marketing themselves beyond the SL user base for not only content creators but also normal, every day residents...

Something exciting and pretty cool will happen and although SL may not have a run for their money, but there will be strong viable options beyond just SL for people to use for reasons of their own.

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Misty Harley

I probably should add...IMO, the primary reason SL is used as a litmus test to get their own VW running is because SL is the leader in VW. They would be foolish to NOT use it. For the most part, what LL has done with SL is right on the money with bringing to a VW what the majority (notice I didn't say minority) of people want to use and experience in a VW.

I'm pretty positive many of these grids (and if I remember right, one had mesh implemented before LL did) will break off and establish their own uniqueness eventually. But until then, they are smart to see what SL is doing, what the user base for VW's want and go from there. If they aren't using this information, I would be sad indeed. It's valuable information for any other grid out there.

Hana

Personally i really want someone to make a cross between Second Life with some form of actual game. Like Second Life crossed with an MMO or game like Skyrim - cept multiplayer. But in a more.. combat/quest optional way...

i dunno... a lot of times when i play MMOs i /wish/ there was more integration of what Second Life is too. Then i'd, personally, hang out in an MMO more. If there was more customisation of the avatar. More... potential ability for players to 'own' a home in the game and decorate it. Maybe somehow segregate the home zones in such a way that they are more sandboxy, but you are able to cross over, into the game when you want.. and still look as neat as you can in SL

i dunno! there was a MMO-ish thing in Second Life for awhile, Darklife, that me and a friend played.. but.. since SL isn't really "built" on a gaming foundation it wasn't really great... but i dunno!

for me.. that would be the thing to pull me fully out of SL. a true game-meets-SL sort of place.

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Digital Digital

I am not talking negatively about any grid, I am just stating the facts

Already there are some new features SL doesn't have -- 1 example is NPC bots that are actually built in on the server they are great to be used as models and also for RPG. It is a heck of a lot better then having to use a special bot viewer on SL.

Plus it's so much more customizable in the backend you have access to doing so much more.

Let's see you do this in SL w/o ghetto prim looking zombies hehehe - this system is so nice!

You may of seen this video but if you haven't here it is.


And yes copy botting is found everywhere I understand that.

Misty Harley

Then why call out another grid for it as if it couldn't possibly happen in any other grid ever, if it's everywhere and you understand that fact?

I'm probably taking some annoyances out on you and I apologize for it, but going on how many years of this stupid Grid War is grating on my nerves.

I just wish people would concentrate on the positive experiences their preferred grid offers and knock off the whole "my grid rocks and yours sucks" type of comments. It doesn't do anyone any good and is disheartening. At most, compare the grids without the side commentary.

Also...cool on the NPC's, I can't watch t he video because something is borky on my system and it gives me a green screen. I've heard that OS has similar for awhile now but not sure if they are the same or AVN took what OS had and made it something 'more'? Maybe you can let me know since i can't view half the video's out there?

Sione

The problem is they have started up with a free open source simulator which is intentionally designed to mimic SL servers the best that it can. The viewer is the SL one as well.

Anyone using this to seriously compete with LL is constantly on the back foot and are chasing a pipe dream. I wouldn't even call it a litmus test, they really have no choice but to follow SL because of their platform choice.

Sure they can make a few changes to the server code here and there and add a few features that the viewer can handle. But it is all really superficial when the underlying architecture and feature set is an exact replica of SL.

OpenSim sure does have it's place but not in anything commercially viable to compete with SL. Commercial grid operators equate to little more than hosting resellers.

Anything to seriously pose a threat to SL will have to be made from the ground up and most of all bring major new concepts to the table. Otherwise it is just same ol' same ol' with LL leading the charge.

Misty Harley

I honestly don't think any of them will ever be able to compete with SL but I also don't think they should try either. Even though it's 'feature added' with SL still being the basis, they can make themselves unique for the user base that appreciates what they bring to the table. But they *still* need to *not* market to SL users and with that 'uniqueness' branch out to other avenues of marketing.

For instance, if a grid owner decides role play wants to be their focus, then they need to start working on 'unique' things they can do for the role play community. When the time comes, market to non-SL role play communities as a way to enhance their RP visually. (just an off the cuff example).

A grid can only rely on SL user base for so long (both through their creators and their everyday users), if they continue with that approach, their world will go mostly stagnant with minimal growth.

Sione

When IW came out it appealed to people who wanted cheaper land but mostly people who wanted that "feeling from the old SL days". That is a community that could self sustain and last quite a while. But it won't grow too much.

When Avination came out they went straight for the content creators, preying on people pissed off with LL. They did this, hoping it would bring in the regular users chasing the content. It didn't work and the reality is people making money in SL are not just going to close shop and move. Avination had nothing for the majority of people and has gone downhill ever since.

The Avination ship has sailed, the bubble burst last year and I am kinda surprised with all of the Avination threads that have popped up over the last week like it is something new.

Lord

This is part of the reasoning behind a small but growing push among some of the OpenSim developers to look into adopting RealXtend's Tundra Viewer and Platform...it doesn't depend upon LL, it is completely open-source, modular, can be viewed in all major OS's with any number of different viewer types including web-based, and builds things in a much more modern way while still being able to parallel LL's achievements. The only thing really lacking is a larger user and developer base, and that has meant that it is a bit behind in development, however, that could easily be overcome.
http://realxtend.wordpress.com/?page_id=260&shareadraft=4f7aa9fad8dfe
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/re...w5U/discussion

SimonLeo

I am also in Avination.
It has been a great experience so far.

Not because Avination is so great or so big or so profitable but mainly because it gave us the chance to test our programming skills in another virtual world.

We have learned a great deal on how to setup an exchange in a different world.
That knowledge is never useless.

Next to that we have great fun trying out all kinds of other stuff like our Gadget store and our land business.

Hi digital.

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Get the land you want!

Han Held

Bullshit, bordering on slander. I'm not going to bother asking if you have solid, concrete proof of this "so much content theft" because I know you don't.

Regardless, it doesn't even matter. Avination is bleeding sims and users, and IW beats them in terms of concurrency. In terms of Concurrency and regions I'm fairly sure that the top three are osgrid, inworldz and avination is a distant third these days.

Here's a little food for thought
Small grid explosion in OpenSim – Hypergrid Business

tl;dr limiting uploads is a great idea ...if your business plan involves losing users, rather than retaining them.

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Drama is easy
with eyes closed
misunderstanding all you read

Misty Harley

IMO, I think one of the reasons AVN is 'falling behind' is because they went after content creators like Sione said and pretty much stopped there. Everything they have done so far is about the creators and not about 'everyday residents.' Maybe eventually they will alter that and find a niche of some sort that brings in both.

IW first just sorta...well I'm not sure what they did other then a bunch of us landed on their doorstep during the LL/Export policies that came right after the homestead fiasco and they grew from there. I'm not even sure (and I'm a fan and a resident there) what their core user base is at this point....as in what type of users makes their world tick. It will continue to grow as their clique's grow (clique for lack of better word, there is a few prominent groups; elf clan and the artistic type *because of the low rates*) but like Sione said, until they release some cool thing they can really market to non-SL users...they will eventually stagnant too. Right now, they aren't working on 'growth' to be honest and what they have received has been a bonus. But I think they are well aware of that and working on things (beyond physics...which is the next huge leap for them) to attain that goal.

Digital Digital

Nah you don't annoy me at all! I am a very open person and I don't take things personally.

Yes I see a lot of that on here about Grid Wars, but I also do see some people post some very nice things about other grids and then get their heads bitten off. Like post one good thing and you get like 20 negative comments and that's just not fair. I love all Grids as much as I hate SL I will still give them credit they are the ones that started all of VW up, and they are still one of the best.

The NPC's is an OS thing, also Avination is OS however it is a very different custom version, While they are the same in a lot of the ways they are very much different as well. Avination also contributes a lot to the OS as well as a few other OS Grids do too. The owner of Avination Melanie contributes a lot to OS.

The whole NPC thing is real neat, for example, you can have like 100 avs rez in a sim and have them all wear different clothes in this example they are zombies they are actual avatars, they run around with a zombie animation and try to kill any human avatars. And you get a gun and can shoot them and kill them ) It's a lot of fun, I remember seeing similar in SL however they used prims instead of actual avatars and the movements were a bit bleh but they were also very cool. I think it's just neat how you can use actual AV bots built in to the server for stuff like this instead of having to run a separate viewer etc. I have seen people already use them in my Mall as clothing models etc and they do not even lag the sim. It's great!


Sorry about my grammar plz don't call the grammar police on me hehehe

Digital Digital

Hey Simon Great to see you here! - Your gadget store in Avination is fabulous

DanielRavenNest

The game engine that I am familiar with has a community dedicated server package, and an SDK so you can create your own game levels (on the right):

Crydev.net • Support

But creating custom content is not like right clicking and making a prim, it happens offline and uses tools for pro game designers (the same exact ones the game creators use). That's beyond the ability of the casual user, so there needs to be an in-world easy to use build tool. It could be done, but nobody has done it yet from the MMO side.

Adding MMO stuff to SL would require them to hire actual artists and level designers. Linden Lab has a programmer culture, which is a different set of skills.

Yoshiko Fazuku

I believe the situation on that was that the group in question had planed on this but for some reason chose not to follow though. this happens occasionally which is why Avination is leery to do such kinds of on the website announcements for third parties. There were similar issues with a building contest where they had such strict rues that they couldn't get enough entries. (they had a min entry number of 10 people and you could only use regular prims to build the amusement park they wanted). In both of these instances it wasn't Avination's fault the events in question didn't happen. The only mistake they made was in trusting that the groups followed though with their stuff. If a Avination "official" created event is marketed it is followed though on regardless of turn out or interest. Unfortuently these are few and far between due to lack of staff and time. the staff would rather be handling support tickets or dev/testing new sim code releases.

Yoshiko Fazuku

In regards to Sl compatibility this is most certainly a issue that holds opensim dev back. The problem is opensim was originally created to be a open-source version of SL so of course opensim compatibility was its goal and this is what the majority of its users expect and demand. Devs also have a tendancy to work on open source projects that they want to or have a need for themselves.

The other issue is veiwer support. Opensim isnt a veiwer developer and becuse of the average veiwers source being LL it was felt that it was too big of a risk to let veiwer devs be involved with opensim code. this was at the time a verry valid reason. now this has changed some what and with LL playing games with the TPV makers there might be a forced splitting of the veiwers where some will write opensim veiwers while others will make SL viwers. if this happens you WILL SEE a lot of "go your own way" kind of work with opensim.There are quite a lot of things that have been discussed and planed to add or changes should the veiwer support situations for such things change. if opensim can add any feature it wants expect LL to have a serious feature discrepancy between OS and SL problay not in LL's favor.

SimonLeo

Lesson learned.

Any other news from the 'M in Events' front?

Autumn Osterham

Maybe they could get the staff alts to turn away from working on their own personal regions and do some support then?

Misty Harley

blasphemy!