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| Other Grids / Virtual Worlds Discuss other grids, services, and virtual worlds. |
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| | #26 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member ![]() ![]()
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 105
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Basically, if you have assets stored locally, it means you can never have a money economy - I can just boost my "Open Dollars" to $50 million once I hack it, as I inevitably will. The alternate is to have no truly persistent identity or assets when moving from sim to sim. Identity because, say, there could be more than one "Joshua Nightshade" on two different sims - what happens when they cross into the same sim? For assets, you'd need to establish relationships of trust between sims when they hand off: so a sim has to say to the sim it's handing you to that yes, you really are this person and you really have these assets (and please don't just duplicate them all and put them in the owner's inventory like that hacked script is telling you to). SL code, which is what all these kinds of things are reverse engineering, is built on a large set of assumptions about identity and assets, and I'm really not convinced that reverse engineering this system is better than simply building a whole new set of code from scratch. | |
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| | #27 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
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But I don't know how assets would work on self-contained sims, I agree that this is an interesting question. | |
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| | #28 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
My Mood: | As I'm thinking about it, currency wise, what would likely be the case is that people don't accept virtual dollars but only real ones. There would be no way to prevent abuse as you say. So what would likely happen is people sell their wares for real money instead of a digital equivalent that can be switched out. |
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| | #29 (permalink) | |
| exp(ln(Gearhead)) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Quote:
It is reasonable to assume that any object entering a sim can be replicated perfectly later, with no impediments, by the sim's owner/administrator. The only thing that can be kept away is modifying the script via source code. | |
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| | #30 (permalink) |
| SAVE THE SEA KITTIES ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
STOP! Mormon time!
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya.
Posts: 3,036
SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04
Business: Azure Islands
My Mood: | Riddle me this: Why do these files need to live somewhere other than on the sim itself, or with your avatar's inventory (which would be on your own server, I suspect services like gmail.com will spring up for personal avatar hosting) |
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| | #31 (permalink) | |
| exp(ln(Gearhead)) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Quote:
Your computer cannot render pictures from CNN.com unless data that can create the pictures is sent to your computer. That is, a copy of the picture now exists in your comp. It may or may not be in a file format you recognize but it is there. You can try to encrypt the data all you want, but the data I listed above must be decrypted in order for rendering to occur. If you do not allow the compiled script onto the server you're visiting, the sim cannot make your devices work. If you do not allow these data to transfer only you will see the assets. Everyone else will see naked Ruth. | |
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| | #32 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member ![]() ![]()
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 105
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But there's no real possibility in that system for your "physical" identity or your inventory to remain consistent across sims, unless as part of the handover process your entire asset inventory was copied over between servers. That, of course, basically means that all items effectively become full permissions at all times - you are giving the owner of each sim a copy of everything you own. Also, it would make it very simply to "clone" avatars, including their name and identity, and make it impossible to ensure that "Joshua Nightshade" was really you. | |
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| | #33 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
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| | #34 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member ![]() ![]()
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 105
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To myself, no matter where I was, I would appear as my (pimped out) avatar: to everyone else, on a sim I didn't trust, I'd look like Ruth. | |
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| | #35 (permalink) | |
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| | #36 (permalink) |
| exp(ln(Gearhead)) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | @Evil Doesn't have to be all. Just take the time to specify what you will show in that sim and you're set. We can have profiles like default, Josh's sim, Prok's sim ... etc. Assets ought to be kept in some private space you control (some repository so you can access it from anywhere) or on your comp (if you don't mind not having them when you access elsewhere). It's like forums. You don't know my real name because I chose not to release it. You do know what my av looks like without a shirt since I released a pic of it. I have a mechanical spider avatar made by hunter stern, but none of you know what it looks like since I never showed it here. |
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| | #37 (permalink) |
| SAVE THE SEA KITTIES ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
STOP! Mormon time!
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya.
Posts: 3,036
SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04
Business: Azure Islands
My Mood: | You seem to be under the mistaken belief that this all operates the same way SL does. ![]() Under the long-term opensim model, there's no grid or grids, it's simply: * Asset is uploaded to your sim from the creator/designer/etc. (just like designing a website) * Sim sends it to users If your pulling something from an 'inventory', then that comes from a seperate server where your avatar resides or the asset resides, as a URL -- ala remote linking a image into a webpage. |
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| | #38 (permalink) | |
| Banned ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
adores her psycho
| ok but you are one of the people creating a vanity grid though, so how can this be true? Quote:
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| | #39 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
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| | #41 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
My Mood: | The internet is made up of millions of separate websites operated on hundreds of thousands of separate servers organized by thousands of ISPs running along hundreds of nerve centers. They're all still one internet though. |
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| | #43 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
My Mood: | Eh in the beginning the internet was separate networks. Then they started talking to one another. SL is the same thing on a different system. It's the same logical evolution. |
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| | #44 (permalink) |
| Banned ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
adores her psycho
| so how does that work then? dozens or even thousands of intranets (grids) each with their own 'icann' (asset servers) and local domains (av names) are going to interconnect how? of those thousands of joshua nightshades, which will become the 'real' one? and what happens to the other 999? |
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| | #45 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 32,172
SL Join Date: 10-11-2004
Business: abstract avatars! XBOX Leaderboard: 29th SLShopper Ads: 16
My Mood: | As Adam suggested there will likely be "avatar hosts" springing up like services such as hotmail and gmail. I register my avatar with one of them and if the sim/grid I connect to utilizes their service when I log in as my avatar.com identity I appear in the sim as my avatar. My assets (clothing, inventory, appearance, monetary balance etc) would be held on this host and will be available when I am in a sim using this system. There's nothing to prevent someone else from registering their own though on a different service, just as there's nothing to stop anybody from registering joshua.nightshade@yahoo.com when I'm @hotmail.com. Or I can choose to simply host my own identity server, where I would be joshua.nightshade@joshua.nightshade.com or whatever. But again this is still a hold-over from everyone being used to the way SL operates and trying to extrapolate that experience to a larger system. For obvious reasons that isn't going to work in every instance. |
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| | #46 (permalink) | |
| SAVE THE SEA KITTIES ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
STOP! Mormon time!
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya.
Posts: 3,036
SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04
Business: Azure Islands
My Mood: | Quote:
) and I'm still working work on it, but I do expect in the next year all the work I've put into it to be not necessary or required. The problem at the moment is we dont support the homogeneous grid stuff properly yet (it's primitive and new code), and it's going to be a few months before we do.That being said, a collection of regions in the same data center or hosting facility has some advantages when it comes to things like making a big contiguous space. | |
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| | #47 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: UK
Posts: 10,313
SL Join Date: 13 May 2006 XBOX Leaderboard: 36th
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:whoosh, rez, repeat: :whoosh, rez, repeat: I came away feeling it was a trap. ![]() | |
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| 1 User Laughed: |
| | #48 (permalink) |
| InfoAddict ![]() ![]()
:V
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 114
SL Join Date: 9/28/2005 SLShopper Ads: 8
My Mood: | Short of inconveniencing the user to a degree that pushes most people away, there is no method of verifying identity online. I can view adult content on webpages simply by following a link stating "Yes, I am over the legal age to view adult content in my area." It is unrealistic to expect that a 3D web will be any different. The "tickbox" method is the only viable solution. And saying that minors getting onto the openLifeGrid will "destroy" OLG before it gets off the ground is rubbish. |
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| | #49 (permalink) |
| posts... sometimes. ![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
SL Join Date: 06/15/05 | Regarding avatar assets and such, I can only suggest reading the "Global avatar architecture" section on Realxtend's website. Opensim is planning on rolling in realxtends work into their project ( opensim blog ), which suggests that this 'avatar server' concept will more likely than not become a hot issue relatively soon. Joshua and Adam's speculation seems to be rather plausible from what I surmise. |
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| | #50 (permalink) | |
| SAVE THE SEA KITTIES ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
STOP! Mormon time!
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya.
Posts: 3,036
SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04
Business: Azure Islands
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