Gigs

From what I can tell, she didn't want to take down older binaries that she no longer had corresponding source for.

You must provide corresponding source for each binary that you offer. It's not sufficient to offer "somewhat related" source that is significantly older or newer than the binary.

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Fmeh

Some sims just have problems. I don't know whether it's a bunch of bad scripts or what, but some sims just crash on the regular LL build, the RC build, the old LL build, and yes, even on the new CV build (but not as often on that)--but don't seem to crash on Kirstens. But Kirstens does crash on some weird things, like when editing appearance or building things--you don't want to build with the Kirstens viewer, it's really, really bad for that.

Your CV is the best I've run across since the Kirstens viewer, hands down, make no mistake about that.

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Eirik

Thanks. I was unaware of most of this.

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Evo Mubble

Im not sure DMCA is applicable with software(i thought it was only for media like music, video, pictures, art, designs, etc).

LL cannot revoke other contributors rights to sue, i'm going to guess that klee has changes made that were copied from other viewers that are not in LL's version and therefore not distributed by LL so... in fact... other viewer versions contributers can indeed sue.

Gigs

OCILLA (the takedown notice part of the DMCA) applies to all copyrighted works.

They can.

Project:Contribution Agreement - Second Life Wiki

"Both You and Linden Lab shall be able to do all such things in relation to Your Contribution as if each were respectively the sole owners of the copyright"

Because of this, you can sue violators. But Linden Lab can simply license your code to those violators, and they are then no longer violators. This effectively means that you can't sue someone that LL doesn't want you to sue. It's a sort of veto power that is part of the joint license grant.

There's that also. But even if they didn't, you could still sue, because of the joint ownership nature of the contrib agreement.

FlipperPA Peregrine

The source code that makes software is typically protected as a written work, just like a book. Same when it comes to patents.

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Evo Mubble

heehee yes, thanks. tho.. i somehow think LL wouldnt care too much if someone sued OLG.

Boy Lane

The following I just posted in OLG forums says it all.
http://openlifegrid.com/tabid/323/af...9/Default.aspx

....and deleted it was. Enough of it. LL is on it.

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Evo Mubble

I know its very frustrating... but keep us up to date.

Eirik

Agreed with Evo. If anything, this makes me curious as to how LL deals with licensing infringements.

Boy Lane

Openlifegrid is now subject of the SLDev mailing list. So the Linden's are aware and everybody else too.

https://lists.secondlife.com/piperma...ch/thread.html

Gareth Nelson

For any viewer devs who are reading:
abusemanager@cari.net
abbas habib 858-974-5080 ext 217

DMCA notices would be greatly appreciated

Joshua Nightshade

Uh I don't think Second Life has anything with Cari.net.

So what's the address for?

Gareth Nelson

OLG is hosted on cari.net

Gareth Nelson

By the way, cari.net is currently the #1 hoster of opensim-based grids it seems. At last count they host at least 6 different grids, and their staff are getting more used to opensim-related stuff. Totally offtopic I know, but just thought i'd mention them - great company if you're setting up a grid.

Joshua Nightshade

Well, you can't DMCA Cari.net because Open Life Grid is hosted there.

If they're hosting the code for their variant of the viewer, then maybe, but that's a bit of a stretch. Not to mention way overkill. And rather abusive of the DMCA.

Really I think that the better approach is to notify LL and let them deal with it. They certainly have no reason to overlook it, and putting pressure on an OpenSim-based grid is advantageous to them without appearing to go after a competitor.

Gareth Nelson

You can, because they are hosting a copyrighted work in violation of the license. Since OLG themselves have thus far failed to co-operate it's quite appropriate to go one up to their hosting provider.

Isn't this precisely what the DMCA is for? Dealing with copyright infringement online is what the law was written for.

Gareth Nelson

To clarify further, the webserver hosting their viewer binary is hosted at cari.net, since no source for that binary is provided it's in violation of the GPL and no other license has been granted - therefore making it just as much a violation of copyright as any warez download.

Eirik

So yes. The actual viewer binaries are hosted on CARI.

Not saying I necessarely disagree with the rest of the post, but just want to make it clear that CARI is actually the correct host after all.

Joshua Nightshade

There's two things here; first, OLG is irrespective of this. 3DX is developing the viewer code now right? They might be owned/operated by Sakai, but that doesn't mean the same servers are hosting the code. I don't know if they are or not, but they appear to be at least two different entities, so I wouldn't assume.

Now, the DMCA is for copyright infringement. The issue here is not copyright infringement, it's 3DX failing to honor the terms of the license. The code isn't stolen, it's not a piece of work that was taken without permission. They have a license for it and permission to use it, they're just failing to honor their terms.

You can file a DMCA and it will probably result in short term gain because webhosts tend to disable first and ask for explanations later. But I am all but certain they can counterfile and have the site up again immediately. Hence that being a pretty overstepping, bullying application of the law. This is a contractual legal issue for LL (and the code contributors where applicable) because Sakai/3DX are failing to live up to the stipulations of their license. But I can't read anything in the GPL or LL's license that says if that happens then the code counts as "stolen," which is the whole point of the DMCA.

Gareth Nelson

The grid itself is too, I noticed this from Sakai making a blog post about the server hardware he used - seemed a little TOO familiar from what I was hosting litesim's stuff on, so I checked into it.

Since i'm a former customer I had the abuse department's contact details lieing around already, so thought i'd post them here.

Boy Lane

Yes, agree Joshua. I think it would also be overkill to put it up on slashdot or some similar "outside" place as Evo suggested. This only annoys people and throws a bad light on Opensims at all. LL is fully aware, not only me reported them. And the SLDev mailing list should make others aware as well. It's up to LL to take it up from now.

And even Kirstenlee and Dawny were reading the "good" news here earlier . Not that I think it would change anything.

Gareth Nelson

No, the GPL is a license, not a contract. It gives you permission to do things that would otherwise be prevented by copyright law only if you honour the terms. If you fail to honour the terms, the license is void and you have no rights granted under the GPL - at that point it becomes copyright infringement.

Whenever the SFLC file suit against GPL violators it's always filed as a copyright infringement suit, not a contract violation.

Furthermore:

Boy Lane

There are two different things here, the viewer is GPLed, and they need to provide the sources. But not the server code based on Opensim that carries a BSD type license. So there is no point going against their service provider and that was never the intention of the whole thing here.

Eirik

Yeah. This has always been my understanding of the OpenSource licenses as well.