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Charlotte Bartlett · 12-28-2008, 09:22 PM

Where are the DMCA links / ISP protection bits on the LOC site - I am rubbish I can't find a thing.

Desmond Shang · 12-28-2008, 10:32 PM

Seems to me this is all drama until Simone says something. Like Joshua said, where is she? Maybe it's not that big a deal to her.

I bet Legend City gets some strong interest due to all this. Content creator drama 4TW?

* * * * *

I had recently taken a look at other grids/my-own-grid. The conclusion can be summed up in one sentence.

Other grids haven't been around long enough to be proven trustworthy to me yet, and I would have *no* idea how to keep the flood of ripped-off content off my own grid, if I had one.

* * * * *

By the way, Luc, if you want to add Darkmere onto Caledon someday soon I got one, count 'em, just One attachment point left. Saving it for ya.

Summer · 12-28-2008, 11:03 PM

I am pretty shocked that LaLa talked about one of her customers (Simone), delinquent account information. It was a lot to read,did I read that correctly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lala xevious

Hello All

I would like to address a recently "made public" insinuation that I (myself) or Legend City Online, LLC is in any way "stealing" anyone's content for ourselves. As I take IP Theft quite seriously and have been quite pro-active on my stance and protocol for DMCA, I will post once again our protocol for DMCA 512 aka DMCA Take Down Procedures.

Content Theft - What Is LCO's Protocol - Legend City Online : Forums

With that being stated, I am going to address our billing procedures. Like LL or any other Online Service Provider that offers you a virtual environment, if you dont pay, your service is retracted or suspended until you do - Period.

When your account is suspended for deliquency or non pay, you will have no access to your account. Any content or land that your avatar maintains is still the respected content of "that" avatar and will remain, in world, for a minimum of 30 days to allow for the payment of the arrears to be made.

I do have the right to have payment for services rendered like any other company would including Second Life. I furthermore have the right to suspend NON PAYING accounts when they are well overdue (just like second life does).

I have pointed out in several areas that this is a KNOWN and COMMON practice and here is the proof that LL will shut your account off 7 [SEVEN] days after you are required to pay and have not. You will find that it furthermore will allow the remaining of your INWORLD content for an additional 30 [THIRTY] days while your account will continue to go into an arrears and then be auctioned and/or sold off if you still do not make good on your balance due:

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/...questionID=5619

First....With whatever your thoughts are about Legend City, Second Life, or virtual worlds all together - They dont run on air - they operate on real servers, that have real bandwidth hosting, with real bills. If regions are not being paid for by their owners and are still being serviced, then they are being paid for by the company in which a balance will be due.

Second...It does not behoove myself nor Legend City Online to ban ANY content creator, no matter who they are. As preferential treatment may have been offered in the beginning to "some" as a courtesy, that by no means implies FREE SERVICE forever! But the fact remains, that if payments should be made then the good faith of that relationship should be maintained.

Third...To address a few items about why online service providers own full and non-exclusive rights to any content brought on to their grid or environment. I addressed this once in our own forum and the fact remains the same.

Here is that link: Issues with Terms of Service - Legend City Online : Forums

The following is the reflection of that very SAME information on Linden Labs Terms of Service: It is from #3 subtopic 2

*Linden Lab Terms of Service (3.2) You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service,you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for [/COLOR][COLOR=White]all purposes within the Service. You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden Lab or against other users of the Service based on any allegations that any activities by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights.

Ok, at what point does all of this become confusing? When someone decided because they could not pay their tier or keep their word, they would design a smear campaign and then sit back (silently) and watch the hunt begin.

I feel sorry that instead of just coming to some "terms of payment" that I was faced with no other option than to suspend the account. I did this weeks after I was told to:

1. "Freeze the account if I needed to"

2. Wanted me to know she knew she owed by stating "I logged in spexcifically to *tell* you I was making arrangements to pay you so y9ou wouldnt be guyessing."

3. Stated that payment would be made within the next few days

4. Confirmed how much she owed - herself!

5. Became evasive and would not respond when that time expired.

Well, I have posted a copy of that very live chat conversation elsewhere and I will post it here too. What I wont do is have some blogger tell me what I need to do with my business practices or demand that I remove content that, without a doubt, doesnt even belong to him/her. Simone

Secondly, the person that created or uploaded that very content will not turn around and state her content is now stolen because "she says so" and after a suspension of the account has taken place. If content is uploaded by its creator it will remain the intellectual property of said avatar or person. Period.

Third, Our team has and continues to work tirelessly to be welcoming to all content creators. We listen to our community and respect them wholeheartedly. It doesnt make sense to invest the lives of my team or myself in an indeavor in which our main objective would be to steal content. This is absurd and I can only say I know most see thru such a straw-man fallacy. I hope I have been clear here and I appreciate those that either know me personally or know me socially to not even reply to blogs whose sole purpose is to feed someone's daily need for chaos and gossip.

I wish you all continued success in all your endeavors, be it in Legend City, SL or any other matrix and we wish you and yours Happy Holidays.

Lo Jacobs · 12-28-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmond Shang

Seems to me this is all drama until Simone says something. Like Joshua said, where is she? Maybe it's not that big a deal to her.

Of all the things Simone is known for, reticence is not one of them.

Joshua Nightshade · 12-28-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer

I am pretty shocked that LaLa talked about one of her customers delinquent account information. It was a lot to read,did I read that correctly?

Again, she was accused of many pretty serious things.

She was accused of telling Simone she could have two sims for free indefinitely and then reneging on that agreement. She was accused of keeping Simone's content and promising to resell it. She was accused of banning someone from LCO simply for this disagreement.

All things considered as a content creator, the thought that I could go to LCO and potentially have my content taken from me by the operators and kicked out is a serious one. Serious and a big deal, to me. Knowing that if I accuse them of something they will trot out chatlogs to defend themselves is not serious. It's pretty expected.

I'm glad that the former is untrue. Prokofy is full of shit, as usual.

Summer · 12-28-2008, 11:09 PM

Was she accused by Simone? Did I miss a link somewhere to see? I thought I read Simone hasn't been heard from.

Joshua Nightshade · 12-28-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer

Was she accused by Simone? Did I miss a link somewhere to see? I thought I read Simone hasn't been heard from.

She was accused by Simone via Prokofy. Simone and Prokofy are friends, I have sat and argued with Simone in person (real life) about that friendship and that only weird people and Ordinal are friends with Prokofy (sorry Ordinal.)

And apparently according to Lordfly, another friend other than Prokofy corroborated this to him, again on Simone's behalf, saying the same stuff as Prok did.

Why Simone is having all these people speak for her instead of saying anything herself is beyond me.

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:20 PM

Simmy keeps her dogs on a leash and in front of her at all times.

If she changes tactics, I'll be proven wrong and surprised.

Macphisto Angelus · 12-28-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Why Simone is having all these people speak for her instead of saying anything herself is beyond me.

Maybe because (I think it is LaLa) a grid owner is a lawyer and this stuff could cost them real world income?

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:33 PM

o.m.g.

You guys obviously haven't read what Prokofy wrote over at the Herald.

Quote:

Um, well, better late than never on a story there, SL Herald, and of course, it was a story that I broke hours ago here:
Second Thoughts: SL Legend Simone Locked Out of Legend City Online

And it's not "some commentators" this and that -- but Prokofy. Um, have you never heard of giving credit to sources you use?!

It's not about a "billing dispute". That's a fake cover story. The sim wasn't purchased; it wasn't set up as a regular billing. The sim was comped in an arrangement that unfortunately for both parties wasn't in the form of a contract.

The TOS at Legend City tracks LL's TOS and insistence on having licensed copies perpetually paid up blah blah -- but in a very different context. A context without a company, or a proper board, with officers, with some kind of fiduciary responsibility visible to the public.

When you have this kind of Grid Diva, this kind of TOS without a context (and no, the wording isn't quite like LL's, and LL has more carefully defined the purposes), and already have drama building for weeks, with a scripter not getting paid for his work, with other rumblings going on, then when the Grid Diva locks out the content creator and it's still sitting in world and selling and copying, it is right and just to demand that she return the content and delete the account. The issue at hand is removing all the free or deep-discounted newbie stuff that helps that Grid Diva hawk her world -- and which she implies that she will hang on to and keep selling by refusing to comply with this designer's wishes.

Does the battle against content fascism mean that you shouldn't ever eradicate or deprecate all the content of a person just because they are banned, or leave permanently, so as to ensure the property rights of the customer who bought their goods?

Oh, I don't know if you can put it so starkly or definitively in each and every case. I don't think you can make some sort of permanent rule about this "always remove all content and make them an unperson" "never remove content but just remove the person" etc. etc.

I think in this setting with a new world, where what *clearly* happened was that LaLa Xevious got top creators in, precisely to give trust in her world, and to create a buzz and to create free content and get people who had been burned by both LL and OpenSim to come in and stick, Simone sure as hell has the right to urge a DMCA takedown of all content, including the freebie content for newbies designed to help them come. It's a very clear transaction -- "provide free newbie content, advertise my world, I give you a sim".

That's very different than a situation where out of thousands of content creators in a world already in swing for years, the Lindens ban, or have a falling out with, a Starax, say, and then he or they would seek to remove all content. That would screw over the customers who bought that content. But these customers in LaLa Land didn't buy this content for the most part; they got it for free as a promotional device.

This problem happened back in the day with Wells Fargo. The people who made the content for this sim, the first corporate big deal that the Lindens landed, were dismayed when Wells Fargo pulled out of SL -- and took that content with them, and they didn't get access to it or could stop it from being further deployed elsewhere on other platforms. Guess they didn't get their contracts wired down.

A balance must be struck between content and consumer rights. We wouldn't look for wisdom on this balance from the non-lawyer Jessica Holyoke. The issue isn't whether all content should be removed, but whether a content creator should be locked out in this way, given their role in making the world habitable and attractive -- especially when the Grid Diva said if there was a billing issue and a lock-out, she would ensure it was overridden.

Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 28, 2008 at 11:10 PM

That first sentence KILLS me. Just KILLS.

Joshua Nightshade · 12-28-2008, 11:35 PM

I wish someone would sue her finally, and require her computers as part of the settlement.

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

I wish someone would sue her finally, and require her computers as part of the settlement.

Simone or Prok?

Joshua Nightshade · 12-28-2008, 11:38 PM

Prokofy. Though Simone doesn't come off in this looking the least bit good when she gets others to misrepresent her battles for her.

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:40 PM

This is some Grade A, slow moving drama. Could it be that there are so many newbies that the names of the Feted Inners are becoming forgotten?

Oh noes!

Macphisto Angelus · 12-28-2008, 11:49 PM

So, it would have been better if LaLa had locked the account (as per the chat log and TOS) and immediately pulled all content from those sims?

What if she had? Then would people be yelling about her being too quick to stop Simone from making Legend bucks after she could not pay tier?

I don't see it.. Either way they would scream bloody murder.

As of now Simone is still making money on each sell on a sim (sims) she hasn't even paid for. She is not even an account in good standing. Once she pays that tier she acknowledged she owes she gets the Legend bucks and can remove her stuff at that time. I have yet to see LaLa say she would hold her stuff hostage. And since Simone is using mouth pieces it is all hear say and speculation right now.

And if this were second life.. what if Gene Replacement decided to tell LL he wanted all his mega prims removed from in world? Or Starax wanted all his freebies removed?

Some think Simone is so important to this world in one aspect, but then act like removing her content from the grid would be no big deal to those who own it.

Vengence Opus · 12-28-2008, 11:51 PM

I suppose all of this would make her very discontented.

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:52 PM

Well what's the big hairy deal if Simone's account is still open and receiving cash? If there is indeed a dispute over rent, then either LaLa can garnish the income as rent agreement and release Simone's account, or Simone can gather up the cash herself and tell LaLa to take it and unlock the account as trade.

Either way, isn't something owed here?

Summer · 12-28-2008, 11:53 PM

Can't they just take Simone's sim offline until this is settled? I don't know how this all works but that would keep all the content in one piece, and ready to go once this is settled?

Macphisto Angelus · 12-28-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten

Well what's the big hairy deal if Simone's account is still open and receiving cash? If there is indeed a dispute over rent, then either LaLa can garnish the income as rent agreement and release Simone's account, or Simone can gather up the cash herself and tell LaLa to take it and unlock the account as trade.

Either way, isn't something owed here?

That is how I see it. It took a bit for the sharks to stop thrashing about to look at all the info.

I think the posts about LCO being over with are a bit pre-mature though.

Ten · 12-28-2008, 11:55 PM

It WON'T get settled unless "landlord" gets paid.

Chip Midnight · 12-29-2008, 12:02 AM

Suspending the account but leaving the content in place pending expiration of a grace period is standard operating procedure for LL and seems like the right thing to do here if it's just a billing dispute. I don't think the main issue is about Simone or Lala, or about what the full story actually is in this instance, but more people's apprehensions about IP protection on third party grids in general.

Summer · 12-29-2008, 12:07 AM

Can you imagine if LL posted your account billing status publicly every time a mob showed up demanding explanation?

Joshua Nightshade · 12-29-2008, 12:07 AM

We're not talking about LL. I don't think the comparison is apt.

Summer · 12-29-2008, 12:11 AM

LCO is like SL junior, Briana says it's like 2003 in SL. I look at their website, it looks like a SL variant, how is it not like LL?

Ten · 12-29-2008, 12:11 AM

Summer's got a point. However, we are dealing with baby steps here, and mistakes will be made.

12-28-2008, 10:32 PM	#102 (permalink)
Desmond Shang Guvnah of Caledon Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Caledon Posts: 165	Seems to me this is all drama until Simone says something. Like Joshua said, where is she? Maybe it's not that big a deal to her. I bet Legend City gets some strong interest due to all this. Content creator drama 4TW? * * * * * I had recently taken a look at other grids/my-own-grid. The conclusion can be summed up in one sentence. Other grids haven't been around long enough to be proven trustworthy to me yet, and I would have no idea how to keep the flood of ripped-off content off my own grid, if I had one. * * * * * By the way, Luc, if you want to add Darkmere onto Caledon someday soon I got one, count 'em, just One attachment point left. Saving it for ya. __________________ Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon:secondlife://caledon/190/190 West Trade Imports LTD Architecture & Antiques:secondlife://alice/89/114

12-28-2008, 11:20 PM	#108 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	Simmy keeps her dogs on a leash and in front of her at all times. If she changes tactics, I'll be proven wrong and surprised. __________________ Shopping Cart Disco http://www.shoppingcartdisco.com THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES.

12-28-2008, 11:51 PM	#116 (permalink)
Vengence Opus Prefers Lux or Palmolive Life Buoy, on the other hand... Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: along the long, rainy river Posts: 3,241 My Mood: Awards: 1	I suppose all of this would make her very discontented. __________________ “If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.” ~ Charles Bukowski

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12-28-2008, 09:22 PM	#101 (permalink)
Charlotte Bartlett Senior Member building <3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London Posts: 238 My Mood: SL Join Date: 21 Sep 2006 Business: Scarlet Creative	Where are the DMCA links / ISP protection bits on the LOC site - I am rubbish I can't find a thing.

12-28-2008, 11:09 PM	#106 (permalink)
Summer Princess Joyous Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 1,668 My Mood:	Was she accused by Simone? Did I miss a link somewhere to see? I thought I read Simone hasn't been heard from.

12-28-2008, 11:35 PM	#111 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	I wish someone would sue her finally, and require her computers as part of the settlement.

12-28-2008, 11:38 PM	#113 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Prokofy. Though Simone doesn't come off in this looking the least bit good when she gets others to misrepresent her battles for her.

12-28-2008, 11:40 PM	#114 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	This is some Grade A, slow moving drama. Could it be that there are so many newbies that the names of the Feted Inners are becoming forgotten? Oh noes!

12-28-2008, 11:49 PM	#115 (permalink)
Macphisto Angelus Is a bastage! It puts the lotion on it's skin!! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 3,066 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10-21-2004	So, it would have been better if LaLa had locked the account (as per the chat log and TOS) and immediately pulled all content from those sims? What if she had? Then would people be yelling about her being too quick to stop Simone from making Legend bucks after she could not pay tier? I don't see it.. Either way they would scream bloody murder. As of now Simone is still making money on each sell on a sim (sims) she hasn't even paid for. She is not even an account in good standing. Once she pays that tier she acknowledged she owes she gets the Legend bucks and can remove her stuff at that time. I have yet to see LaLa say she would hold her stuff hostage. And since Simone is using mouth pieces it is all hear say and speculation right now. And if this were second life.. what if Gene Replacement decided to tell LL he wanted all his mega prims removed from in world? Or Starax wanted all his freebies removed? Some think Simone is so important to this world in one aspect, but then act like removing her content from the grid would be no big deal to those who own it.

12-28-2008, 11:52 PM	#117 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	Well what's the big hairy deal if Simone's account is still open and receiving cash? If there is indeed a dispute over rent, then either LaLa can garnish the income as rent agreement and release Simone's account, or Simone can gather up the cash herself and tell LaLa to take it and unlock the account as trade. Either way, isn't something owed here?

12-28-2008, 11:53 PM	#118 (permalink)
Summer Princess Joyous Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 1,668 My Mood:	Can't they just take Simone's sim offline until this is settled? I don't know how this all works but that would keep all the content in one piece, and ready to go once this is settled?

12-28-2008, 11:55 PM	#120 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	It WON'T get settled unless "landlord" gets paid.

12-29-2008, 12:02 AM	#121 (permalink)
Chip Midnight That template guy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,562 My Mood: Business: CMFF XBOX Leaderboard: 9^th	Suspending the account but leaving the content in place pending expiration of a grace period is standard operating procedure for LL and seems like the right thing to do here if it's just a billing dispute. I don't think the main issue is about Simone or Lala, or about what the full story actually is in this instance, but more people's apprehensions about IP protection on third party grids in general.

12-29-2008, 12:07 AM	#122 (permalink)
Summer Princess Joyous Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 1,668 My Mood:	Can you imagine if LL posted your account billing status publicly every time a mob showed up demanding explanation?

12-29-2008, 12:07 AM	#123 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	We're not talking about LL. I don't think the comparison is apt.

12-29-2008, 12:11 AM	#124 (permalink)
Summer Princess Joyous Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 1,668 My Mood:	LCO is like SL junior, Briana says it's like 2003 in SL. I look at their website, it looks like a SL variant, how is it not like LL?

12-29-2008, 12:11 AM	#125 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	Summer's got a point. However, we are dealing with baby steps here, and mistakes will be made.

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