Joshua Nightshade

It seems like only Prokofy is claiming that. From what I saw of Melanie and Lala's comments, the content was deleted from the welcome area and is in a non-public limbo where it can be restored as soon as Simone pays tier. Barring that it will be removed entirely. It doesn't look like Melaine or Lala or anyone connected to LCO's management are claiming they own and will distribute the content now.

Chip Midnight

Calmly and professionally. She should have just said it was a billing issue or contractual issue and that the account is currently suspended pending resolution, and then let readers know how such disputes are handled and what their policy on IP protection is, in general, and as it relates to canceled or banned accounts. Even if the article is bogus and compltely unfair it was an opportunity wasted.

Lordfly Digeridoo

You know, reading my responses here I'm surprised nobody's taken me to task for my apparent whiffle-waffling of opinions.

I'm usually the guy that says "there's nothing you can do about content theft" in most of these drama llamas. I say this because, generally speaking, there isn't. Most content theft is going to be from two-bit kids on the grid that think they've got a secret to easy money. So they spend 25 bucks, get some land, copy some stuff... get bored, and disappear.

I generally consider it a different can of worms when a content provider, hosting content made by another, starts mucking about with the content creator's stuff.

Did she steal it? No, there's no indication of that. However, I don't think there's also any indication it's been deleted, either.

Were it a simple "sorry, I don't want to pay for your sims AND work my ass off", the content should have been nuked, not held indefinitely at Legend's discretion.

I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I do tend to get a little knee-jerk at seeing good content makers getting shafted again, and again, and again. It hits really, really close to home.

Legally there's nothing Simone can do about it. Ethically LaLa is retarded and is going to lose a ton of goodwill over this, especially the way she's handling herself on prok's comment-o-tron right now.

In short, GET A FUCKING CONTRACT. I don't care if you're fucking them, living with them, having children with them, get a contract for your work. Period.

No contract, no work.

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http://www.lordfly.com/

Joshua Nightshade

Well she did. But like I said, both Simone and Lala have said they were great friends before this.

This looks like a friendship issue, and it's exploded because of Prokofy's exacerbation.

I'm not going to say she didn't make it harder for herself in the comments. But really she runs a business in SL, and she does this, she's not a fortune-500 CEO, I think we're setting the bar on behavior a bit unreasonably.

How many times have any of us posted a conversation with a customer in our SL stores when they acted silly to laugh at them? How many of us with businesses in SL laughed at those chatlogs and didn't cry customer confidentiality?

Joshua Nightshade

It's not being held indefinitely.

Simone says (again, according to Prokofy) she was told she can have the sims for free if she makes content.

Lala says that wasn't the case, she ordered two sims, she expected her to pay tier on it.

Lala and Melanie say that she didn't pay tier, her account was suspended, and after 30 days it will be deleted. To give her the opportunity to come back into LCO without starting from scratch if she pays tier.

Exactly the same way LL handles these situations.

Prokofy is the one ranting about how they're going to keep it and redistribute it. Nobody from LCO said that anywhere I can see.

Ordinal Malaprop

1. What LL does is neither here nor there. We all have issues with LL's practice, I am sure.

2. I would be a bit more interested in what LaLa had to say regarding her contact with Simone if she could restrain herself from repeatedly posting a link to a big JPEG of nothing at all as evidence - Simone Goodness how enlightening.

Chip Midnight

Oh I agree, but that's also the problem when money and IP are concerned. It's a lot easier to trust someone like Linden Lab who has major big name invenstors compared to Joe's Sim Shack run out of someone's basement. If third party grid operator's want to be taken seriously and earn trust they really need to think about public perception. I can't say I wouldn't have lost it a bit if I were in her place.

Prad Prathivi

With most other businesses in SL, we don't really rely on them to host our businesses and provide a service which we'd rely on to operate. We expect a high degree of professionalism in respect to other customers and users of the service.

You can't really draw comparisons with SL businesses, in my opinion. They're on par with Linden Lab, OpenLife et al. because they provide the same sort of service, and compete as so.

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Kurt Ludd

There is a scrollbar on that link that works great scroll down and read the chat...LOL


Kurt Ludd

Macphisto Angelus

OK.. just some quick observations then you can groan all you want.
1. Why is it when a high profile content creator is treated special by LL it is FIC but if one doesn't pay tier and gets what the LCO TOS said would happen handed to them it is thievery?
2. LaLa or Melanie said Simone would get any money from her account once she pays the tier. I am sure they will not risk all the money and work they put into the place to stiff Simone of some game bucks or to sell her content as their own.
3. Sans the chat log this has been handled in the same way LL would have.. except they would likely not have been so tough on a high profile content creator (which is what people bitch about all the time ironically.)

I am not into LCO, openlife or anything beyond my standalone right now. Some of the comments and aspects of that blog post seem kinda hypocritical though. It ain't FIC when it is your friend I suppose.

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If life is just a joke, why aren't we laughing?

Joshua Nightshade

But in practice LL is just as bad handling IP issues as anyone else. Content still circulates on the grid that should have been removed via DMCA notices.

LCO isn't even based in the US.

Joshua Nightshade

I can draw those comparisons because they're operating on the same level with the same number of customers as mom and pop SL shops.

Openlife Grid isn't on the same level as LL. None of the third party commercial grids are. None of them have the client base, the infrastructure, the longevity. These are outfits run by SL residences.

This is an issue between two friends that blew up and exploded publicly. I have never spoken to Lala before. I don't like Melanie. But I've been on the receiving end of Prokofy's bald faced lies, her insults, and her numerous attempts at making things up to libel the people she dislikes. This is exactly how she operates, and Simone is known for bringing drama onto herself.

Prad Prathivi

That makes the two of us, but I still maintain that as a service provider of virtual worlds, LCO and Opensim are in the same category as Second Life.

Yes, they're not the same size.

No, that doesn't mean they should behave unprofessionally.

Joshua Nightshade

I'm disagreeing, I don't think she's behaving unprofessionally.

At the end of the day it's all irrelevant. If you quit LCO because of this (most people probably won't, or haven't even heard of it) then that's your right. If you refuse to sign up because of this, that's also your right. I've a feeling most people in the latter camp weren't going to do so anyway.

This hasn't affected my interest either way. I maintain I still hate the commercial grids. But I think it's equally as unprofessional for Simone to have many people speaking for her to stir up a hornet's nest over a private issue.

Tya

that she has on a few occasions. Normally when something doesn't go her way, she has a hissy fit.

Cristiano

Most people don't always handle themselves perfectly in the crosshairs of Prokofy's accusation as fact diatribes. As far as LaLa's ethics, she was stiffed for tier - money is owed to her. She has every right to hold onto something of value until the situation is resolved. You are speaking of oh poor content creator -yet this is a dispute over unpaid service.

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"At least he died doing what he loved most - blogging on the Huffington Post" - 30 Rock

* slu stuff *

Wildefire Walcott

Hrm, this is what I thought at first but if you scroll down you'll see Simone and Lala talking, and it is very clear (assuming it's an actual transcript) that Simone knew she was supposed to be paying tier and was supposedly taking steps to transfer SL money to PayPal to pay her Legend City bill.

Very odd.

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Lordfly Digeridoo

Valid point.

Ten

I lol'd.

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lala xevious

Hello All

I would like to address a recently "made public" insinuation that I (myself) or Legend City Online, LLC is in any way "stealing" anyone's content for ourselves. As I take IP Theft quite seriously and have been quite pro-active on my stance and protocol for DMCA, I will post once again our protocol for DMCA 512 aka DMCA Take Down Procedures.

Content Theft - What Is LCO's Protocol - Legend City Online : Forums

With that being stated, I am going to address our billing procedures. Like LL or any other Online Service Provider that offers you a virtual environment, if you dont pay, your service is retracted or suspended until you do - Period.

When your account is suspended for deliquency or non pay, you will have no access to your account. Any content or land that your avatar maintains is still the respected content of "that" avatar and will remain, in world, for a minimum of 30 days to allow for the payment of the arrears to be made.

I do have the right to have payment for services rendered like any other company would including Second Life. I furthermore have the right to suspend NON PAYING accounts when they are well overdue (just like second life does).

I have pointed out in several areas that this is a KNOWN and COMMON practice and here is the proof that LL will shut your account off 7 [SEVEN] days after you are required to pay and have not. You will find that it furthermore will allow the remaining of your INWORLD content for an additional 30 [THIRTY] days while your account will continue to go into an arrears and then be auctioned and/or sold off if you still do not make good on your balance due:

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/...questionID=5619


First....With whatever your thoughts are about Legend City, Second Life, or virtual worlds all together - They dont run on air - they operate on real servers, that have real bandwidth hosting, with real bills. If regions are not being paid for by their owners and are still being serviced, then they are being paid for by the company in which a balance will be due.

Second...It does not behoove myself nor Legend City Online to ban ANY content creator, no matter who they are. As preferential treatment may have been offered in the beginning to "some" as a courtesy, that by no means implies FREE SERVICE forever! But the fact remains, that if payments should be made then the good faith of that relationship should be maintained.

Third...To address a few items about why online service providers own full and non-exclusive rights to any content brought on to their grid or environment. I addressed this once in our own forum and the fact remains the same.

Here is that link: Issues with Terms of Service - Legend City Online : Forums

The following is the reflection of that very SAME information on Linden Labs Terms of Service: It is from #3 subtopic 2

• *Linden Lab Terms of Service (3.2) You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service,you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for [/COLOR][COLOR=White]all purposes within the Service. You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden Lab or against other users of the Service based on any allegations that any activities by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights.

Ok, at what point does all of this become confusing? When someone decided because they could not pay their tier or keep their word, they would design a smear campaign and then sit back (silently) and watch the hunt begin.

I feel sorry that instead of just coming to some "terms of payment" that I was faced with no other option than to suspend the account. I did this weeks after I was told to:

1. "Freeze the account if I needed to"

2. Wanted me to know she knew she owed by stating "I logged in spexcifically to *tell* you I was making arrangements to pay you so y9ou wouldnt be guyessing."

3. Stated that payment would be made within the next few days

4. Confirmed how much she owed - herself!

5. Became evasive and would not respond when that time expired.


Well, I have posted a copy of that very live chat conversation elsewhere and I will post it here too. What I wont do is have some blogger tell me what I need to do with my business practices or demand that I remove content that, without a doubt, doesnt even belong to him/her. Simone

Secondly, the person that created or uploaded that very content will not turn around and state her content is now stolen because "she says so" and after a suspension of the account has taken place. If content is uploaded by its creator it will remain the intellectual property of said avatar or person. Period.

Third, Our team has and continues to work tirelessly to be welcoming to all content creators. We listen to our community and respect them wholeheartedly. It doesnt make sense to invest the lives of my team or myself in an indeavor in which our main objective would be to steal content. This is absurd and I can only say I know most see thru such a straw-man fallacy. I hope I have been clear here and I appreciate those that either know me personally or know me socially to not even reply to blogs whose sole purpose is to feed someone's daily need for chaos and gossip.

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Women are not to be understood...Just loved

Joshua Nightshade

Lala you might want to fix the formatting, it comes up completely white for those not using the default dark skin.

Kurt Ludd

WTG Lala...


Kurt Ludd

Cristiano

I fixed it.

Galen McGinnis

((grrr, need to read again before I shoot))

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Ok now I ain't so dirty any more. What do you mean showering is an Adult activity. Oh hell did I rez in Braunworth again?

Joshua Nightshade

That's not what that says.

You have to provide proof of ownership to everyone to file a DMCA notice. You can't file a DMCA on content you don't own.

The service provider isn't obligated to respond to DMCAs that don't demonstrate infringement. This is why ISPs and college networks should be tossing out the bogus RIAA threats left and right because they never establish copyright infringement, but they don't because they fear the loss of common carrier status.

LL has the exact same policy. So does Facebook and the ESC and myspace etc.