Briana Dawson

You don't usually pry, but for some reason, in this particular instance, you cannot help yourself because the answer to that question is so germane to the conversation.

Ran Garrigus

Of course, Torley shows up in self-produced Youtube videos as himself, and the official LL tutorial videos feature his unmistakably male voice, so ... yeah, Torley Linden is a "he" despite the avatar being female, because it's those things I associate him with moreso than with his avatar.

Prokofy is just a person with a male avatar, and certainly doesn't go out of his way to make note of the fact that the avatar's owner is actually female. So, Prokofy Neva is male, at least in my mind. Mileage may vary.

To drag myself back on topic, I agree that there's an obvious lack of investigation regarding the claims made by Simone -- has anyone confirmed whether Simone's material is still out in the newbie area, and (if not) when was it removed? -- and at the same time I don't know that we've got the full story from LCO's side; picking out one chat log doesn't necessarily mean there aren't earlier chat logs that tell a different story.

Seems like a bad business, all around. I've no personal interest in other grids, so I can't say I ever intended to try LCO, but I think this is a very good example of the kind of problems and issues you'll have in the early days of any virtual world. I hope the situation will be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties (and with much less drama).

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Darkley

having an avatar that differs from your rl gender does make you transgendered


oops just noticed the typo, should have been doesn't!

eek what a mistake

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Ingrid N

The difference between Prok and those people might be that Prok is also not beneath casually making all manner of trans- and homophobic remarks.

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Rhonan Morrisey

Personally yeah, maybe this saga has been blown out of the water, and out into space, but this isnt the first run in with LaLa where people have (or have wanted) to make it public in the same way. Dont forget the Central Grid / Legend City buyout, where she forced nye on all the estate owners / managers to leave due to her attitude, and she banned them also, Including retaking all their funds back into her own domain.

I personally was working with TheVGrid as a designer, and myself and the owner are still lacking 40 USD.

Everything is now adding up, and I can hear the death knell of LCO tolling (well hopefully anyway).


Some links that may/may not be of interest

http://www.gamerssoul.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18

http://www.gamerssoul.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12

The only issue I have with LCO is LaLa Legend. I take my hat of to classy, tiger and the rest of the crew. They do a great job.

Masque

Redundancy, redundancy!

*cough* sorry.

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Alexia Cournoyer

nope, it's not germane to this thread at all.. but since we're outing peoples genders because 'it's common knowledge' I just thought I'd ask...

it looks like it just throws another layer of drama into the thread, it's that old chestnut of where to draw the line re privacy and why a person draws the line there and the relevancy of that line to others.

*edited for typo

Isablan Neva

Audio. Pictures are one thing. When you put out audio recordings it changes perception significantly. Without an actual voice to go with a personality, the personality can still be anything we can imagine - even if there is a picture visual. Voice puts a RL personality to the person and it is very, very difficult to go back once you've heard their voice.

Summer

MALE OR FEMALE, the discussion moved here.

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Cristiano

The gender issue with Prokofy always seems to arise at some point. A lot of it stems from Prokofy claiming "transgendered avatar" as equivalent to RL transgender, and then using that as a weapon to beat over the head of anyone who does not capitulate to that.

Respect is certainly something that can be lost, and some people find referring to Prokofy as male when Prokofy is so visible in RL as a female at events is preposterous. The point that Prokofy's gender is irrelevant to this discussion is true, though - whatever Prokofy's gender, this is all much ado about nothing as always.

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* slu stuff *

Persephone Milk

Excellent point. I have to agree with you. Prok does do this, and has done so even in this discussion with regard to Joshua and Adam. Still, Prok's gender isn't at all relevant to primary issue we are discussing here, and I would submit that by bringing it up, we have completely derailed the conversation.

All of this because I referred to Prok as a "he?" Bleh.

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Cindy Claveau

I wouldn't have brought it up, myself. I agree it's nothing to do with the issue here. However, whenever I hear Prok referred to as a "he", I also detect the synchronous screeching of fingernails dragging slowly across a blackboard. And I'm not the only one.

Whoever noted that it might have something to do with respect (or lack thereof) was pretty on-target. As in "Prok doesn't get any". That's her own doing, and I personally don't feel the need to soft-pedal my dislike for her regardless.

More on topic: It's one thing to report on something that happened. It's quite another to digress immediately into the same old lame jingoism about "technocommunism" and other made-up words. FFS, I thought they had medication for that kind of paranoia in the 21st century.

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Lucifer Baphomet

I refer to Prok as Prok, and avoid pronouns

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Chip Midnight

So what have we learned from this thread? First, Prok is still Prok - astute at bringing up interesting philosophical issues that sound reasonable on their surface but which are always just a thin veneer covering a boatload of hysterical reality-challenged malicious bullshit. Second, I should never say I agree with Prokofy 100% ever again, even if I think it may actually be true at the time. That just means the alien hasn't burst out of Prok's chest yet. Third, when making any kind of barter arrangement, use a contract. Bullshit like this can't have any teeth when you have a document with the other party's signature on it. Fourth, when representing your company in a blog scuffle, don't post chat logs from customers. Fifth, Elric of Melnibone was awesome, when I was fourteen. I'm not sure it'd still be awesome now, but I have a signed and numbered print of Michael Whelan's cover art for Stormbringer on my wall which is definitely still awesome. In summation, I give this drama one and a half stars.

Briana Dawson

I have just been a victim of a Hit and Run by Prokofy.

I am not going to post the full chat log, though the conversation i thought went well and I was like, wow he isn't that bad after all", and then we got to the end of the conversation.

The start:
And the end of the conversation:
Wtf is BDSM BITCHY?????!

Well i deleted the message i posted for him.

Asher Bertrand

Er, no way in hell I'm going back to page 1 to figure all this mess out, so can someone sum up why I should give a damn about any of this?

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MadamG Zagato

I don't dislike Prok. But I for damn sure don't appreciate or agree with some of the things she says on her blog about some people. Most of her blog is "her opinion" but she portrays it as fact and I think many people take insult to that.

I say "she", "her", "woman", "lady", etc because I had no idea that she played a male in SL before encountering her irl (or maybe I just wasn't paying attention). I have never encountered her avatar. I have seen her in real life though, and she is very much a woman and did not appear to be portraying anything but. So I never think about it and just refer to her as a female.

Her persona extends far beyond the confinement of Second Life as does her allegations which prompts some to refer to her as her actual gender and in some cases her RL name. If she was just an SL personality who simply blogged about exploring sl and things that ONLY AFFECTED THE GRID, then no one would care, but she takes it to a totally different level which I think prompts people to to use her RL details. There were lots of people meeting one another at SLCC who discovered that others were of the opposite gender, but you don't see them referring to eachother as their RL gender on forums and such. But then again, they don't have controversial blogs either that accuse people of wrongdoing.

But as I said, I refer to her as female for the reasons I stated above and I am sure others may do so for those reasons also. It doesn't appear that she cares either way though.

Persephone Milk

I am really sorry Cindy. I have some personal experiences that make me over sensitive on this issue. I actually regret challenging Ten on this. There is now a new thread on this issue, and I am not going to make a post. These discussions always bum me out.

Briana Dawson

You shouldn't.

Cindy Claveau

It's what happens after you're BDSM Mind-Controlled.

Cindy Claveau

This thread is a good example of what happens when a blogger's vitriolic hyperbole overshadows the issues. These threads end up being more about one personality than they are about the seed issue.

Brenda Archer

Simone is a woman. I met her in RL before SL even existed, when she was a cab driver in Salt Lake City.

I think Simone's success story in SL is awesome and I hope for her sake this nasty forum/blog infighting does not damage her business.

Envoy Costagravas

Hey, Fox, I hope you're still reading the thread. I'm sorry if that comment came across that way, as I didn't intend it as derogatory at all. It simply was to say that some people - and the SL experience is pretty wide and deep with populace - don't have much connection to or experience with the business world, and how a bona fide business entity would conduct their affairs. In this regard, I think it's relevant, but was not intended as an insult. As to all the rest, we'll just have to disagree and move on.

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and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
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Ten

It's a problem because Prokofy is a genuine asshole and makes a mockery of the G/B/L/TG community by continuing to claim to be transgendered when there doesn't appear to be any real evidence of her swinging either direction... it's just yet another cry for attention.

Go compare Prokofy and Sooz, or Prokofy and the dear late Kendra. Then tell me if you still think Prokofy's claim is legit.

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Ten

Simone damages her own business just fine on her own without any peanut gallery commentary. I wouldn't worry about how what is said on SLU affects her.