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Old 07-31-2018, 11:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hypergrid Stuff

So my curiosity finally got the better of me and I decided to check out opensim-verse.

I decided to take Macphisto's suggestion and got an account at Kitely. For the reasons mentioned in that other thread, I figured trying to explore as a kid avatar would ultimately be more trouble than it was worth, so I decided to use my go-to abstract non-kid avatar from Second Life.



It took a couple of hours to build it from scratch in Kitely (another story); but I got it done. So now I'm ready for some exploring!

After figuring out how hypergridding worked I took Han's suggestion and visited Cherry Manga's sims on Francogrid and boy am I glad I did that. There's stuff there I've never seen the like of in Second Life. I'm not just talking avatars; I mean the whole automated shows she has there. Trippy and awesome.

Then I checked out DigiWorldz' welcome center, where I got a translator, and a transit hub in OSGrid, where I got a slightly better translator. While in DigiWorldz I also visited and bookmarked Metaverse Uni's sim because I may want to take some of the classes there.

Lastly I visited the Great Canadian Grid as Amaranth suggested and spent a couple of hours at a kinda informal community meeting there, which they let me stay and talk with them even though I wasn't a grid member (or even Canadian).

Unfortunately, except for the chat on GCG being just in time to miss an event became a running thing for me. I just joined Kitely yesterday, a day too late for the Sunday community meeting. I visited Digiworldz too late for an MVU class. I missed somebody's set at OSGrid which may not have even been my kind of music but it would've been something at least. I was even late for some public opensim dev meeting that might've been beyond me technically but I would've liked to attend anyways. Sooo....

Are there any like consolidated lists of public events in opensim-land, or groups in various grids I can join to get event notices? I have noticed that I do receive group notices from other grids' groups that I belong to no matter where in the MV I am, which is pretty cool. So far I've joined a Digiworldz event group and a GCG event group. But I want MOAR.

Also I noticed a couple of weird problems that I encountered while hypergridding that I'd like to ask about, but I'll wait to see if anyone capable of answering them notices this thread before I ask em.
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Good for you! I am glad you are keeping busy on the hypergrid. Sooo many cool things to see on lots of grids.

I will give you one link that may help with some events. Joining Kitely community chat can get some notices, I am sure other grids have groups for the same thing too. I don't know about always, but usually groups I am in from other grids (3rd rock, etc) work across the metaverse. As does chat.

https://plus.google.com/u/1/communit...17302234467612

I can't say we are giant and full of activates in the open metaverse, but you can find a few people like Han (I suggest if you go google + friend him and I when you can. we can try to point out events for you. Not to mention there are lots of cool people on the google + opensim realm. You will know some from SL like Leck and others.

Just remember. you do not have to stay tied to one place or community. There is a good variety of things to find. HG to Metropolis grid and there are lots of freebies there. You can hang out on my region Underworld if you want while you get your bearings, or hang out on Cartmel in Kitely. It is mine too. It is very sparse with like, just a couple things but feel free to rez a place for yourself while you get the swing of things.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Mac! Thanks for the invitation, and the link, it's like a MV newspaper.

I'm not on Google+ unfortunately; between the forums I'm on as Dakota and all the social network accounts I've opened in my RL name for Blender stuff I'm reaching the limit of what I can keep track of. I may eventually but not for now. I've still saved the news page though and can save any other similar pages to watch.

I did raid your profile in Kitely for group suggestions though.

One problem I did have in Kitely to begin with was that it took a very long time to find a sandbox open to the public so I could build my avatar. There were plenty of places called Sandbox that were private, and a few sandboxes that called themselves public but that I couldn't build anything on. I did eventually find one though - and I also had a John Wayne moment where I was able to give a LM for it to another newbie who was a couple of weeks older than me and was looking for a sandbox, so that was cool. On the other hand I do realize that for most noobs, "building an avatar" involves putting on clothes and items rather than literally building anything, so I understand a public sandbox may not be really an in-demand thing.

Funnily enough I managed to run into Nathan on my first day.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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One problem I did have in Kitely to begin with was that it took a very long time to find a sandbox open to the public so I could build my avatar. There were plenty of places called Sandbox that were private, and a few sandboxes that called themselves public but that I couldn't build anything on. I did eventually find one though - and I also had a John Wayne moment where I was able to give a LM for it to another newbie who was a couple of weeks older than me and was looking for a sandbox, so that was cool. On the other hand I do realize that for most noobs, "building an avatar" involves putting on clothes and items rather than literally building anything, so I understand a public sandbox may not be really an in-demand thing.

Funnily enough I managed to run into Nathan on my first day.
Yeah., that was a point of confusion for me too. I learned to find anything grid owned to put kitely in from of the swarch, ie Kitely Sandbox, Kitely Welcome center.

I don't know who owns those locked sandboxes, but it is a confusing situation to be sure. I am working on a project of gathering landmarks to places people want visited and I will include the official sandboxes in that list.

I am glad you saw Nathan. He is a good guy.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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While I've got your ear, like I mentioned I did notice a couple of problems while I was around hypergridding.

Problem 1: sometimes LM's and map search for HG locations just stops working. It doesn't matter where I am; it can happen on any sim, in Kitely or in another grid. Any attempt to teleport to an HG area via a landmark or teleport history gets a "requested region no longer exists" message, and entering the URL into the map gets no results. Even places I have literally just teleported from, can't be teleported back to. Sometimes even another destination in what should be the same grid (although only in foreign grids, I've never had trouble moving between Kitely sims obviously).

Sometimes going back to Kitely Welcome "resets" this I guess, but sometimes I have to relog. Is this a problem that anyone else has, or is it just me? What causes it, and is there anything I can do about it?

And secondly - I guess for at least one user I spoke to when I visited GCG, my name appeared as "Unknown User [randomnumberstring]", even in their chat window, when everything seemed normal on my end. I imagine some others may have seen it that way too. Is that just a glitch that happens sometimes?
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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While I've got your ear, like I mentioned I did notice a couple of problems while I was around hypergridding.

Problem 1: sometimes LM's and map search for HG locations just stops working. It doesn't matter where I am; it can happen on any sim, in Kitely or in another grid. Any attempt to teleport to an HG area via a landmark or teleport history gets a "requested region no longer exists" message, and entering the URL into the map gets no results. Even places I have literally just teleported from, can't be teleported back to. Sometimes even another destination in what should be the same grid (although only in foreign grids, I've never had trouble moving between Kitely sims obviously).

Sometimes going back to Kitely Welcome "resets" this I guess, but sometimes I have to relog. Is this a problem that anyone else has, or is it just me? What causes it, and is there anything I can do about it?

And secondly - I guess for at least one user I spoke to when I visited GCG, my name appeared as "Unknown User [randomnumberstring]", even in their chat window, when everything seemed normal on my end. I imagine some others may have seen it that way too. Is that just a glitch that happens sometimes?
Some grids and opensim worlds are run off of PCs. They can be on and off depending on if someone has a PC crash, a bad connection, etc. I don't have the knowledge to explain why it resets at Kitely welcome.

The name thing is odd. If you are using a Kitely avatar it will show your name plus kitely.com after it. Have you rebooted your router lately?

Someone else may have experienced this and can offer technical wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuffs. Other than keeping up with the social end of things as best as I can and goofing off the tech end of it changed since I helped on a former grid with the backend. Yeah, it isn't fuzzy memeories that makes me unable to answer... it is OS's fault.

Do a few grid jumps and see if others see the same issue.

There are little issues you will run into. For me that is part of the fun. I draw the line at inventory loss and stuff like. That is the only time I am bothered, but that has not happened on the grid you were "born on" for me so far in years. Only a different account on another grid ended in "where is my X and Y and Z at"?
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The unknownuserUUARAGGFAFERF is an old, old problem -sometimes clearing cache helps, usually it doesn't. I'm sorry. For whatever it's worth, it happens a lot less on Singularity.

If you're just looking for a sandbox *period* there's one at metro -actually several at metro!

hypergrid.org:8002:Sandbox
hypergrid.org:8002une <<the dune project is a huge-ass sandbox project, with several sandboxes.

I'm not sure if I have the address for Dune right or not; I'll check after I have coffee


There's also:
grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002:Sandox
which has some linda kellie/zadaroo freebies in it.

The only kid avi in OS I can think of who you would like is Richardus Raymaker ...but he doesn't come around much any more.
I've been focusing on Secondlife and the CDS for the last year or so -I'm kind of (very!) out of touch with what's going on in OS now. :-/
If you're on Discord there's an opensim-oriented Discord server called "Hypergrid creators and events", hopefully this is the correct link to it:

https://discord.gg/2MtzyGR

A lot of events get posted there (hence the name )
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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hypergrid.org:8002une
Oh, it's gonna be one of those days.

Got it.

Ok ...well, hop over to Metro's sandbox (hypergrid.org:8002:sandbox) and plug in Dune. At least as of right now any of the regions that come up are part of the Dune project:

(actually I'm not sure about Dune-Ultimate ...maybe stick to the Dune-1 Dune-2 etc)
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh, btw, you may end up getting a page like


When you hop t some grids. Usually they'll pop up a dialog box and make you load an external page (that's what Kitely does) before you can TP over to them.


Yay more red tape
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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On kitely there's Cookie II -that's Thinkerer's region. He has a lot of information and such and sometimes hosts events there too. He also links to a hobo sandbox (requires joining a group to build -no idea if it's free or not but I'd be surprised if it isn't).
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well, I clearly haven't figured that suitcase thing. I looked fine when I logged out of Metropolis yesterday. This is the sight that greeted me when I logged back into Kitely just now:



Not the style I was going for. I was wearing various stuff from my suitcase (some that obviously didn't detach properly), as well as all the stuff from my normal inventory. To be fair, I think I crashed rather than logged out properly.

I couldn't access this thread, so I tried to find a sandbox on my own. There's one free one for merchants, with the description stating you shouldn't use it for anything else than creating products you intend to sale. Why, thanks. Where do *I* go?

I found another one. Apparently I somehow restarted a world that was offline, so I tp'd there, but right at the tp point there was some floating text showing you had to pay 1 KC / minute to visit. Ughh. Lovely. I don't have any KC, so I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd try to stay, but it put me off enough that I TP'd back to the welcome centre and logged out.

So first impressions are that I probably picked the wrong grid to create my account. Kitely doesn't seem very welcoming, with no sandbox for poor newbs to sort themselves out. I also couldn't find any explanation of that suitcase vs. normal inventory thing. I assume you can only wear stuff from your suitcase when visiting grids... at least once you start changing clothes / shapes etc.

At this point, I'll probably keep this account going in case I want to visit sims, but I'm not exactly bowled over yet. I find the newbie experience more confusing than SL, and that's saying something.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I found a sandbox! Look on the map for an estate where all the sims are named Eloquence (something). Practically the whole place is build-enabled and there's plenty of room. The land description just asks that you make sure to clean up. Be aware, there is a vehicle in a garage there that throws a script error every few seconds, so if it gets annoying you can either hunt it down by the XYZ coordinates in the script error and mute it (which is what I did) or turn off script error notices I guess.

Here's what I've figured out about the whole My Suitcase business. Everything you get or buy or are given in another grid, goes there. While you're hypergridding, it's the only part of your inventory that is available - EXCEPT for the outfit you're currently wearing when you travel, which also comes with you and doesn't need to be in your suitcase technically. Although I think if you remove anything you're wearing while on another grid, you won't be able to put it back on unless it is in your suitcase.

So yeah, once you get back to Kitely you can move anything from your suitcase into your regular inventory, or leave it there I suppose. But anything that you want to have access to while in other grids, you need to make sure is in your suitcase before you leave Kitely. Very importantly, this includes landmarks!

My own av is fairly....complete, so really the only thing I keep in my suitcase so far is LMs and my translator huds, but you may want to put any other clothes, dance huds, etc you think you may use while you're out and about.

The offline worlds is how Kitely works. When nobody is on a region, it "goes to sleep", and only starts back up again when somebody goes there. At first the short wait while it's restarting seemed like an annoyance, but as I think on it this is a pretty clever way of saving on server runtime costs.

It is true though that Kitely doesn't have much in the way of orientation for noobs. It has the Starter Kit box there with some notecards that mostly send you to webpages that explain the normal orientation kind of stuff, but I did not see an explanation of My Suitcase or using the Hypergrid among them. On the one hand it keeps Kitely's welcome area a lot nicer-looking, and not cluttered up with big signs and floating text the way most grids' welcome areas are; but on the other hand yeah it's definitely not as intuitive for new users to get to information. It seems to presume you're coming from Second Life and probably know the basics at least.

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Old 08-02-2018, 01:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, I clearly haven't figured that suitcase thing. I looked fine when I logged out of Metropolis yesterday. This is the sight that greeted me when I logged back into Kitely just now:



Not the style I was going for. I was wearing various stuff from my suitcase (some that obviously didn't detach properly), as well as all the stuff from my normal inventory. To be fair, I think I crashed rather than logged out properly.
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I couldn't access this thread, so I tried to find a sandbox on my own. There's one free one for merchants, with the description stating you shouldn't use it for anything else than creating products you intend to sale. Why, thanks. Where do *I* go?
Look up the world Cartmel. It is mine and you are welcome to try stuff out and get assimilated there. You are welcome to rez a skybox, house, whatever and hang out there until you get the hang of it all.. I won't even bother you. I just quietly do my thing unless someone comes to me first.

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I found another one. Apparently I somehow restarted a world that was offline, so I tp'd there, but right at the tp point there was some floating text showing you had to pay 1 KC / minute to visit. Ughh. Lovely. I don't have any KC, so I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd try to stay, but it put me off enough that I TP'd back to the welcome centre and logged out.
No charge on my place. And worlds are in storage until they are needed. So, keep in mind, if you ever get in a heated argument with someone and shoot for the last word and want to TP out at that second, you will be awkwardly standing there for a few seconds.
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So first impressions are that I probably picked the wrong grid to create my account. Kitely doesn't seem very welcoming, with no sandbox for poor newbs to sort themselves out. I also couldn't find any explanation of that suitcase vs. normal inventory thing. I assume you can only wear stuff from your suitcase when visiting grids... at least once you start changing clothes / shapes etc.
Sorry about that. I agree that unless a greeter is waiting for new people to show up, it can seem a little cold. Kinda like, OK, you are here now.. go do something. All the kiosks around welcome explain some things about the worlds, but I am a greeter now. Had a bad router and fighting with the new one as we speak but I try to spend a few hours a day at Welcome in case someone comes in.

As for the suitcase, you can put full perm items in there and when you go to other grids, they will go with you. It is part of the copy protection that makes everything unavailabe from the Kitely server if they are not full perm in the case or bought on the market as exportable. Exportable from the Market is automatically able to travel with you, no suitcase needed. If you get something at say, Discovery grid that is full perm and bring it back to Kitely, it will be in the suitcase. Did you drag the suitcase on your avatar like a clothes folder? I did that when I first tried the suitcase lol. I hope that helps.

Whatever grid you decide to have an account on (and right now sounds like Kitely) be sure they keep redundant backups in multiple servers to ensure you do not have a InWz situation where all the apples were in one barrel and the barrel was sunk. Also, some grids can auto switch to the other server if the main server goes down so you won't have to wait hours for something to be fixed in the database. I am just glad you are trying Opensim out.
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At this point, I'll probably keep this account going in case I want to visit sims, but I'm not exactly bowled over yet. I find the newbie experience more confusing than SL, and that's saying something.
Good idea. Keep the one account to store your stuff up and hypergrid all over the metaverse and have fun. I use it as my base, but I visit all over. That is the cool thing about open grids, you can explore places like Digi, Discovery, Metropolis, etc and soon Infiniti. You are not tied to one grid. But you did pick a good base because they do have those redundant backups.
Welcome to the open metaverse.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hyper-gridding is starting to sound like more of a hassle that what it's worth.

You have to pack a suitcase before you can go grid hopping and it has to be full perm items in the suitcase? I was under the impression you could take "permissioned" items with you (copy/mod/no trans) and you didn't need a special folder for your inventory to go with you.

Not at all what I was expecting or hoping for. The tech must just not be there yet.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You look a mess!
I know, right? Mind you, it's a very natural look for me.

I think I was trying too many things together too quickly, and the grid just ended up throwing it at me in a very wholesome fashion.

I think the "sleeping world" idea is pretty cool. I felt like I had superpowers when I brought a whole sim online, LOL. Overall, it all made me curious enough to explore more.
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You have to pack a suitcase before you can go grid hopping and it has to be full perm items in the suitcase? I was under the impression you could take "permissioned" items with you (copy/mod/no trans) and you didn't need a special folder for your inventory to go with you.
I think export-able (but not full perms) items are OK too -- it's definitely an option on Kitely market, and most items there, from what I could see, are exportable (without being full perms).

The fact I ended up wearing everything and the kitchen sink wasn't because of the suitcase. I was just too impatient.

It definitely means that you have to spend some time micro-managing the inventory. I suspect I'll end up only getting exportable items -- that way I can shove everything into the suitcase, and forget about the main inventory.
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hyper-gridding is starting to sound like more of a hassle that what it's worth.

You have to pack a suitcase before you can go grid hopping and it has to be full perm items in the suitcase? I was under the impression you could take "permissioned" items with you (copy/mod/no trans) and you didn't need a special folder for your inventory to go with you.

Not at all what I was expecting or hoping for. The tech must just not be there yet.
The suitcase is just another folder in your inventory. You don't have to put items into My Suitcase every single time you want to go hypergridding, you can leave stuff in it permanently and it's just always there until you remove it. Even in Kitely you can use stuff that's in the suitcase folder normally, create outfits out of items that are kept in the suitcase, add suitcase stuff to Firestorm's new "favorite wearables" panel, etc.

I know that like Mac says, creators who sell stuff on the Kitely market have the option of making a thing they sell Kitely-only. But as far as I know only a minority of things on the market are set this way. I personally haven't yet run into a problem of something I've gotten in Kitely not being able to go with me to the hypergrid, or vice versa, and I haven't even been paying attention to perms like at all. If a store or mall is on a region that has hypergrid access, chances are you won't have any problems with perms.

I say the hypergrid is way worth taking a day or so to get accustomed to the Suitcase system. This evening I'm going to a scripting class in Digiworldz, with my Kitely account. That's too cool.
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Kitely's pricing is tempting.
4 regions for 20 usd a month.
Something for me to keep in mind for the fall/winter season.
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hyper-gridding is starting to sound like more of a hassle that what it's worth.

You have to pack a suitcase before you can go grid hopping and it has to be full perm items in the suitcase? I was under the impression you could take "permissioned" items with you (copy/mod/no trans) and you didn't need a special folder for your inventory to go with you.

Not at all what I was expecting or hoping for. The tech must just not be there yet.

I am trouble shooting a router I got that is being a pain in the butt. So, when I told you about the suitcase, I was mistaken. I have a Tardis in my suitcase from OSGrid and it is no copy. It goes where I go unless it is reszzed on my very bare 4 region world.

One thing to know if anyone is selling in Kitely Market, the export perm is not set in the viewer. Export/Non Export is at the market level.
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Kitely's pricing is tempting.
4 regions for 20 usd a month.
Something for me to keep in mind for the fall/winter season.
That is pretty good. I was running some OS Grid regions on Digital Ocean for $5/mo, but maintaining them was a hassle.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Not shilling, but there is also a 14.99 (or .95) one region option with less power for those who just want to hang out on their land and not have lots of people over. 14 day money back guarantee is a plus too.

I have a region on Metro that was 40.00 a month. I love Metro, but when I went to cancel the region a week back they sent me an email letting me know they need 30 day advanced warning because their network providers required the same. So in theory, if I had tried it for a couple weeks (which I guess it was 3 weeks in my case) you can't just ask for the region to be closed. You would have to pay another 30 days. That was my bad for not reading deeply into the terms. I figured they were like SL and anyone else I tried out.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Not shilling, but there is also a 14.99 (or .95) one region option with less power for those who just want to hang out on their land and not have lots of people over. 14 day money back guarantee is a plus too.

.
$20/4 regions or $15/1 region?

Edit, nevermind, I looked it up. Do they still do that charge per minute thing?

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Old 08-02-2018, 06:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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For whatever it's worth, I just picked up two regions for $15USD each at 3rd rock grid. The tech is the same as digiworldz, but it's managed by the users and leans more towards being non-commercial. The crowd skews older and hippie-ish though there is an inworld currency and some attempts to have commercial shops. (Commerce is not my thing so I don't pay attention and I couldn't give you any details about them)

That will be on top of the 512x512 region I already have on metro (which I'm keeping) and the spots I have in SL.

Here's the pricing page on 3rd rock:

Region Pricing | 3rdrockgrid.com
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A lot of folks from inworldz are going to digiworldz, and if I had more disposable income I'd think about getting one of these top two packages:

https://www.digiworldz.com/store/cart.php

Digiworldz is also the grid that pre-emptively banned "Athena", for those of you with IP concerns (the open source Ruth 2 mesh avatar is also created by someone with a region there).
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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$20/4 regions or $15/1 region?

Edit, nevermind, I looked it up. Do they still do that charge per minute thing?
Yeah, it is a megaregion, so it is all one big land mass. Sorta like a single region. Aurora was a fork of OpenSim and they were the first with that feature. But also resources are better the higher you go.

And no, the micro charge per minute is gone now. Some liked it because they saved money. I prefer a flat fee so that I know what to expect. If it went back to pay by minute, I would likely turn in my land.
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