Clancy Sullivan

OMG, Tyche. If that wasn't so funneh you'd have to be spanked for that flippant reply.

Geaven Gall

i myself personally don't like hip-hop, r&b or rap much, maybe because it's played to death on the radio here (especially r&b) so it all sounds very mainstream to me. however as with any music genre it has the good, the bad and the fugly.

i think that not all hip-hop or rap is bad and violent. we have a local artiste here who has managed to blend hip-hop and traditional music pretty well. and it's actually pretty catchy and happy


the song is in kadazan (which is an indigenous race in borneo) and the dance you see in the background behind the hip-hop dancers is the traditional sumazau dance.

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Fmeh

Well, in the cases that I've been in as of more recently, the comments weren't actually about ME, they were about other people at the establishments. I've worked so hard at keeping an appearance of "not gay" and it seems to have worked....

You are correct about just going with the survival instinct about it though. Anything else would be stupid, and even though I made it sound like I'd want to do something, the likeliness of me actually saying something is pretty slim.
I've been so away from the club scene for so long that all my viewpoints on the scene are not current--I start thinking about the last times I've really just went out to have a good time, and not just to eat or peoplewatch (or go to one of those places where I can look at people I think are attractive but know I can't touch or even say anything about, like the biker bars or trucker hangouts) but to just have a good time--dance--any of that--it was in 2002 that I did anything like that the last time. I don't have any friends that like to do those things that live here--the ones that do live in different states now.

Since 2002.... that's too long. No wonder why I've been paranoid. I really need to get out more.

................

Out of your experience (or whoever's reading this), how open-minded have you found the places that specifically are geared around hip-hop, not necessarily gay establishments? I know of a number of hip-hop clubs in both Tacoma and Seattle, but I don't know of any gay clubs that play anything other than Techno, and I must admit, I like the rhythms that are in hip-hop a lot better than techno rhythms even though I often don't like its message. Techno, to me, is very boring.

When I dance, I tend to look rather feminine in my mannerisms--I don't really dance like a guy and I just can't help it--I hear the music and dance the way I feel. This is why I'm concerned about going to non-gay establishments to dance. Dancing is about the only thing that when people see me, they can guess that I'm gay--no, when people see me dance, they KNOW that I'm gay. LOL

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Mukatsuku

When I dance I look like a knob, so that's all that dancing reveals about me

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Fmeh

LOL :lol: A knob? What do you mean?

Mukatsuku

Dancing makes me look like even more of a dick, a wanker, an idiot

prinţesă nină

prinţesă does not dance.

Jessyanne

She should...

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Daisy Rimbaud

Yep.

And most commercially-oriented music (for want of a better term) is not many layered, and hence not art.

And one should never make the mistake of judging whether something is art or not on the basis of whether you like it or not.

Also, it's never helpful to put up difficult cases and ask "is THIS art??". The boundaries are so hard to draw, it's not worth trying. Much better to look at the cores - it's easier to distinguish things that are definitely art and other things that are definitely not.

Clancy Sullivan

Daisy, this staement is all sand. It doesn't even sound like it means anything important, it's absurd through and through.

If you don't like rap, fine. No one is accusing you of being afraid of working-class and poor black culture, and there is no need to justify your taste in music. But please, don't go all pseudo-scientific on us.

Fmeh

Okay--the post I made didn't go through, and I already deleted the wordpad file.....

Well, I basically said that the only music that generally becomes popular in any genre (except Jazz, which is usually inherently complex) is simplistic because it's the lowest common denominator. Simple rock, simple country, simple rap, simple r&b, simple hip-hop, simple accoustic music. When things start becoming too "artistic", the musically simple-minded get turned off.

Mukatsuku

Kate Bush, Tori Amos and Portishead made mainstream

Fmeh

I haven't heard enough of Kate Bush to make any judgments, but Tori Amos and Portishead aren't really that complex, they're just very different sounding, but that does say a lot though--there are those great gems that still become popular that do things differently.

Tya

if you like portishead and tori, you would like kate

Daisy Rimbaud

I'm precisely not talking about my taste in music. I'm saying that what one likes or dislikes is not a way of judging artistic merit. How is that "pseudo-scientific"?

Clancy Sullivan

When I was a little boy my momma told me "Clancyboy, don't you never argue with a evil genius, if you know what's good for you."

And, I never do.

Fmeh

There is no absolute in the judgment of artistic merit. It's pretty subjective.

We can talk about how complex something is, or how simple something is, but that's not judgment of artistic merit, that's a judgment of how complex something is.

The only area that I could even slightly see this in is judging something on how much different it is from the standards. But then again--someone could be making music based completely on dadaism and that ends up being what makes it different, so that doesn't really work either.

There's no way to tell truly HOW much work was put into something--and even then--is a song or painting or piece of art of some sort that was created in a short period of time really have less validity than something that someone took a year to create?

One can try to look at a combination of all those things too, but again--when those things are broken apart individually, it's back to being subjective again.

There's really no way to have absolute judgment of artistic merit.

Daisy Rimbaud

No absolute difference?

Fmeh

Nope. Each can be judged by different methods.

Daisy Rimbaud

This is like a parody advertisement I saw proving that a Skoda was better than a Mercedes (this was before Skoda was taken over by VW; when they made really crappy cars).

Skoda Merc
1) Four wheels x x
2) Engine x x
3) Cheap to run x
4) Quality Czech workmanship x

Skoda wins!

MissKillian Barbosa

I'll have to repectfully disagree.. You may not see the "artist" hunched over his notepad, keyboard, drum kit, synthesizer, kazoo, or diggery-doo waiting for the muse to come. That doesnt mean it doesnt happen. that doesnt mean what they create has less value than what is played in to an audience sitting in 300 dollar seats at a concert hall.. Oh, wait those people are better..those people have "culture" and refinement and taste, so the art they consume is therefore the real and only deal..

Daisy, I dislike ALOT of Hip Hop, Rap, Pop, Rock, Country, Folk.. I cringe at the lyrics and at the repetitive beat and choruses. One should never make the mistake of assuming that because I defend it, I like it. I am able to step back and appreciate all types of art.. I have to, It's what I do for a living.

I wish I could ne more helpful, but that's not in my job description.. Heh, I just throw it out there as a rebuttal to blanket attacks on any type of art form. But I will do this.. I have listed below some examples of art.. done by lowbrow people, animals, mentally unbalanced folk and otherwise interesting people who make my art work so very wonderful.. because I tell ya..If the only type of art I had to look at was the "high" and "lofty" art that was displayed here as proof of real art..I'd become a plumber..they make more money

and ....ZOMG.. an art "not"zi, the worstkind of art snob..

http://www.students.sbc.edu/evans06/...%20Duchamp.jpg


http://home.sprynet.com/~mindweb/artshit.jpg


http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/i...ephant_art.gif


http://www.moxmas.com/readings/xtrafles/paint1.jpg


http://www.outsider-art.info/john-do...art-dog-z9.gif


http://pics.fort90.com/journal/green.jpg


http://primitivekoolart.com/images/B...Eyellowolf.jpg


http://www.frank151.com/wp-content/u...ris_card_2.jpg


PRISON ART..

Google Image Result for http://www.dynoxicon.de/details/detail_mona_lisa.jpg

Google Image Result for http://homepage.mac.com/absynthe/artcar/image/mondrian.jpg

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Joseph Worthington

Of course their is. I honestly don't like the first because the pseudo-angels are grainy, and offensive to my Wayist mentality.

The second however is vibrant, iconic without ant religious over or undertones, and drawn in such a way that I might be questioning my own sexuality even as I gaze upon it.

First one is crap. Propaganda at it's finest. The second however is truly....Art.

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Brenda Archer

Wow, this thread has made me think about a lot of things and change my mind quite a bit.

I'm sort of in a love hate relationship with hip hop, some of it is good or at least fun, and I love it and always have. But there are definitely some with lyrics that make me cringe, very misogynistic, and then I'm back to hating. I can say exactly the same thing about classic rock, which I listen to a lot, or country, which I normally avoid

There's definitely some incredible stuff out there in every genre that the commercial interests don't promote, so I often find myself saying I hate this that or the other genre when what I really mean is that I hate the lowbrow commercial crap.

And I do think that lowbrow commercial crap in general is bad for your brain. In fact, this is why I don't have a TV anymore (except for a tiny set I use to get emergency alerts in a hurricane) and I don't even miss it. It would interfere with my online time anyway, LOL.

I have no idea what art is but I know when something inspires me.

P.S. I am sure this is where someone will remind me I'm missing all the good stuff on the History Channel. Which is true, LOL.