Mukatsuku

I can never hear his name without thinking of Ian Hislop's impression of him

Also, I can't imagine Jimmy nutting someone

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Fmeh

Why isn't there a MAJOR OUTRAGE by those who belong to that culture towards mainstream media for pushing out the bad stereotypes?

What redeeming positive qualities ARE there about that culture, since supposedly it actually HAS positive qualities--since all the things I (and people who don't belong to that culture) see in person and all the things media pushes out seem to decry a very negative ignorant culture?

I see gay people complain a LOT about how media portrays them. Why doesn't that happen with hip-hop culture? In the past, when those mannerisms USED TO BE primarily associated and stereotyped as a black thing, black people complained about the way they were portrayed, black people used to complain about things, and their complaints furthered their cause and helped further MLK's cause and hopes and dreams. Then once the negative crap started coming out in the late 80's and early 90's--why wasn't there an outrage like there was before? The message "I" remember was "Finally, we're getting portrayed the way we really are, it's the for reals, we're keepin' in real. They better not censor this stuff or they're racist." and so it didn't get censored, it caught on more and more, and now people can't tell the difference between gangs and those who just like the look and mannerisms. There's something VERY wrong with that. Black people SHOULD BE OUTRAGED, but they're not--or at least, they're not outraged in a way that anyone but those who belong to the culture are able to tell. People USED to be very vocal about that kind of outrage. What happened?

How is anyone supposed to feel any differently when this is all people see? Where is someone supposed to get different ideas about the culture? Just go up to someone who acts that way and try to be friends and hope they're not in a gang? Hang out at hip-hop clubs and hope that one's non-hip-hopness doesn't get them beat up or at the very least, extremely chastised?

Something definitely needs to be done in ghetto areas--they need to be improved--we need to be offering education and the opportunity to relocate from those communities that are struggling. The ghetto areas are probably the main issue, and I'm sure that what some of the rap artists that are trying to make a difference are really trying to address those things, but WHY only address those things in the form of music that only people who already understand and respect those cultures understand? Isn't that like preaching to the choir?

If people were willing to go outside those genres to say those messages, it really could be something that gets heard by people who don't listen to hip-hop. Imagine a bunch of straight-laced people singing songs that have lyrics that are deep and meaningful and address many of the problems. What a concept. You know--also lyrics that people can understand because 3 and sometimes even 4 syllables aren't mushed together into one.

One of the biggest reasons why I don't listen to rap is because of all the slang and the morphing of words together. When you can't understand what is being said (like if one was listening to rap in another language), rap is UTTERLY USELESS to listen to because it generally has NO musical value--it's ALL about the lyrics, and when you can't understand the lyrics, what is left?

The reason why so many non-hip-hop-liking non-rap-liking people like Eminem is because he actually pronounces EVERY word. If he asked the question "Do you have the latest fifty cent album?" which he probably wouldn't be asking, it would NOT come out as "Do half lace fih sen am?" like when I worked retail and offended a customer because I asked him to repeat it 5 times and I still had absolutely NO idea what was being asked, then I had to relay them to another worker who likes hip-hop and rap so she could help that customer, and that was the one question that was just over the top for me.

The other one was

"Cocks you quesh."

"What?"

"Cocks you quesh?"

"I don't know what you're saying."

"I spee-nn in-lish, what's prob?" (I'm speaking English, what's your problem)

"I'm sorry. I just don't know what you said. Let me get someone who can help you better." He was really really offended.

He was asking "Can I ask you a question?" and the girl who I had help him, after she was done, came up to me and basically said that she really honestly could NOT believe that I could not understand what he was saying. It happened so many times and 3 of those times I had later received a negative customer comment report. I tried to be as courteous as I could, but I guess I'm just supposed to be able to understand.

I understand English--I can even understand a Cockney accent. I just CAN'T understand the hip-hop/rap accent, and neither can a number of people, so as long as rap artists want to mush words together, their audience is going to be limited to those that understand all the slang and what the one-syllable words are supposed to be saying.

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Joseph Worthington

Because the unfortunate truth of the matter is most of the people who belong the culture aren't the one's being stereotyped. Many, if not most of the negative stereotypes that come out as a result of this fabricated lifestyle are almost always associated with black people. However most of the people that purchase rap albums and whatnot aren't black. So most in the culture simply don't care. And those that do care, and make no mistake there are plenty, are overlooked or ignored.

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Do what now?

Asher Bertrand

Are you sure? I'm not. I don't really know what people involved in that culture say, because I'm not in it. You know what people in the gay community (sorry, Walker) say, because it surrounds you. But do you really know what goes on in a group in which you hold no membership?

Well, maybe by talking to people. Not condescendingly, but respectfully. And don't necessarily leap at them with this topic. Start it when you see someone on a bus, or in the store, or wherever. Just say hello, and talk. Like you would to anyone else. No, all secrets will not be immediately be revealed. And maybe the person will be a real asshole. But maybe you'll find out that he or she is just a person, just like you. And then, once you befriend someone, maybe you'll learn more about their culture.

You mean, why don't they make things for white men instead? OK, if you reciprocate by making things especially for them?

You know, you're free to your opinion, but it is only that: YOUR opinion. And saying it doesn't make it fact. I know a lot of people have found a lot of meaning from rap and hip hop. I even heard of a book about that, "http://www.amazon.com/Message-Lessons-Hip-Hops-Greatest-Songs/dp/1568583354/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203043630&sr=8-1." If you really want an answer to that question, maybe you should take a look at it.

Well, actually, yes. It's customer service. The expectation is that the customer service rep will go the distance to meet the needs of the customer, not that the customer will help out the customer service rep.

Fmeh, I really like you. But, to me at least, you're coming off as surprisingly close minded here. It's like you took a look at a caricature of a culture and accepted it as "the way things are." How do you like it when people do that about gay culture and assume that everyone in your group is the same as the most flamboyant person shown on the Pride Day parade float?

Natalie P.

This entire thread reminds me of the reason modern, pop country music sends me into a frothing rage - it's overproduced, gimmicky, slapdash tripe that promotes a worldview I find repulsive. But then, isn't that the case with *all* popular, mainstream music these days, be it rap/hip-hop, country, pop, rock, whatever?

I'll stick with Johnny here, personally.

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Cindy Claveau

Well, good for you. But that's just an anecdotal rebuttal, Joseph. Inner city violence, however, *is* a major problem - as attested to by FBI statistics on violent crimes and a constant flood of stories in large city newspapers.

I'm sure there are millions of kids who enjoy hip-hop without being a part of some inner city gang. However, that avoids the question I was addressing - which is the roots of the culture.

Don't believe me, it doesn't matter. But ask Jason Whitlock, black sportswriter for the KC Times, what he thinks the hip-hop culture is doing to sports. Ask Bill Cosby, who is decrying the lack of responsibility taken by black males towards women and families - an attitude championed by a big chunk of hip-hop music. Ask this female writer why she feels that "When going to any hip-hop related event, my friends and I normally expect that we will be disrespected verbally and physically, and have to prepare ourselves accordingly. "

While you're at it, ask Jam Master Jay, Tupac Shakur, Biggie Smalls, Eazy-E and others whether the hip-hop culture did their short lives any favors -- and why no other musical genre features so much violence involving its icons. It's so bad, one hip hip blog was even taking votes on who will get it next.

If there is a stereotype here, and I agree that there is, I submit that many in the black music community have promoted and exploited that stereotype themselves. We can debate forever whether art imitates life or vice versa, but I have to say I'm concerned when very young people are exposed to the booty-shaking sexism and implied violence of some of the music at an early age - they grow up believing that this is just the way it is.

Hip hop didn't put over half of the black male population in jail, nor did it cause 70% of black births to be out of wedlock. But a thinking person has to ask themselves whether it helped in any way.

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Fmeh

Okay---this is an example of what I generally hear when I listen to rap:

http://kizzume.com/femeh.mp3

That's about as much as I usually understand the lyrics, except for the phrases like "bling bling" and "bitches and hoes" and all the other bad stereotypes. Tell me how much wonderful meaning it has without understanding the lyrics.

Joseph Worthington

Just so I'm clear, when it comes to hip hop you dislike/hate...

A. The fact you can't understand it.
B. The style of clothing it promotes.
C. The mindset it appears to have towards women, children, and homosexuals.
D. The way it glamourizes Crime, Drugs, and promiscuity.
E. All of the above.


And the purpose of this discussion is too talk about....



A. The fact you can't understand it.
B. The style of clothing it promotes.
C. The mindset it appears to have towards women, children, and homosexuals.
D. The way it glamourizes Crime, Drugs, and promiscuity.
E. All of the above.

Joseph Worthington

ABC News: Run-DMC Frontman: Hip-Hop's Not All Bad



DMC cites positive aspects of hip-hop - News, photos, topics, and quotes - Daylife

Hip Hop Congress :: 2008 :: February :: 01

Joseph Worthington

From Hip Hop Congress :: 2008 :: February :: 01

Social Justice Clothing Line Seeks Alliance with Multicultural Centers [BIOHH]

CONTACT:
Marcus Manning
Untitled Document
612.250.5747
marcus.manning@biohh.com
Social Justice Clothing Line Seeks Alliance with Multicultural Centers
Minneapolis, MN, 1/27/08 – Blame it on Hip Hop (BIOHH), a local urban clothing line, has a powerful social message coupled with the fresh style of their hats and t-shirts. BIOHH’s mission is to promote the positive aspects of Hip Hop culture, often overlooked or denounced by the mainstream media, through community outreach projects, public speaking engagements, and promoting socially minded hip hop artists. BIOHH is looking to partner with Multicultural Centers and Student Groups on college campuses, to revitalize the dialogue about hip hop and promote critical multicultural education.
The CEO and Co-Founder, Marcus Manning is a passionate person who believes in the power and dedication of youth to inspire change and carry out the BIOHH’s mission. BIOHH is a company that acknowledges issues and challenges embedded in Hip Hop, but is fighting the notion that Hip Hop is the culprit of all evil or a scapegoat for society’s woes. “To blame Hip Hop for the world’s troubles is like blaming the band-aid for the cut” says Marcus Manning. BIOHH’s shirts represent the positive core within the Hip Hop culture. Our mission is to promote the positive aspects of what Hip Hop has done and will continue to do in this society. We are a clothing company designed with a purpose. That purpose is to change the negative perceptions of the Hip Hop culture. Why change perception? In this world, perception is reality. It shapes our minds, thoughts and reactions. Therefore, altering perception ultimately changes reality.
Hip Hop culture and music are mutli-faceted, evolving, complex and sometimes even contradictory. But Hip Hop is a valuable art and it is truth for hundreds of thousands of women, men, and children. Hip Hop is a vehicle for critical pedagogy to occur and it is estimated that over 200 classes on Hip Hop are being offered each year at colleges and universities throughout the United States and beyond.
Social Justice Education works towards a society that includes full and equal participation for all groups and uses an institutional, cultural, and individual lens to discuss historical and contemporary manifestations of oppression. Hip Hop acts as a public and global sounding board for artists and supporters to question universal attitudes about race, class and gender representations.
The symbiotic relationship between social justice and Hip Hop reinforces BIOHH’s dedication to building alliances with college activists and multicultural centers, which will help ensure an ongoing discourse where multiple experiences and intelligences are valued and people can come to understand the transformative power of Hip Hop to bring about positive change.
ABOUT BIOHH – The BIOHH brand was born in November of 2002. The purpose of the company is to clothe the globe with gear that makes sense and provokes dialogue to alter perceptions of Hip Hop. The company consists of five professional men who have a love of the culture and the art form of Hip Hop. In the later days, BIOHH will manufacture the complete collections for both men and women however, today, the t-shirts and hats are what the line consists of. Please visit us online at Untitled Document or call Marcus Manning at 612-250-5747.
Marcus S. Manning
CEO and Founder
612-250-5747
Blameitonhiphop.com

Fmeh

Please, I'm sure they're out there--please link to some hip-hop artists that don't talk about living in the hood, at all, nothing about any of the stereotypes that are usually associated with hip-hop and rap, that intelligently talk about the important issues out there without sounding like they're so angry that they're ready to kill someone. You know, where things are talked about intelligently--not just "the government SUCKS, fuck the government! Fuck the system! Boot the system! Fuck the police!", you know, talked about intelligently, going into specifics of things.

I know it exists, but I don't know where to find it.

Fmeh

What are these words?

shway
fwee
mej
shlem
gow
and what is O.P.P.?

Mukatsuku

Japan - hip/hop is big over here but the culture associated with it doesn't exist and isn't raved about.
This leads to a lot of the hip/hop artists being tiny, cutesy girls
Yeah, it's not quite the same as US hip/hop

Joseph Worthington

Wait...so the two are exclusive now? An artist can't weave a tale or story or voice an valid opinion if they so much as mention where they're coming from? I can understand how one might not want to hear the type of "lyrics" that you posted, but the way you make it sound is that a rap artist's opinion is rendered moot and negligible if they happen to be passionate and/or angry about. Of if they try to provide some sense of perspective as to Why they feel the way they do.

If you're asking me to point you to some suburban rapper who raps exclusively about politics and social reform and viable means to reduce the deficit....without any mention of his or her background at all...then you win. I'll concede that I cannot. But personally, I don't believe music is music if you don't put a bit of yourself into it.

Now then, if you just want artists that aren't all about the three B's (Bling, Bitches, and Blunts), I named a few earlier...but I'll name them again, and a few more.

Common
Talib Kweli
Jean Grae
The Roots
Jurrasic 5
De La Soul
A Tribe Called Quest
Aesop Rock
MF Doom
Cee-Lo (aka Gnarls Barkley)
Dead Prez
Arrested Development

I may be off base, but now it appears that you're asking for the genre to be purely about politics, when the genre was never conceived or intended to be purely about politics. It was, and to a large degree still is, about beats and lyrics don't care for the beats or the lyrics? That's fine. You're perfectly entitled to dislike the music for that. I certainly won't fault you for that. But at this point it honestly seems that you simply don't like hip-hop, and have no intention of changing your mind about the matter. That too is fine.

But to keep attacking it over any little thing that doesn't fit into your personal view of the genre? Come on. That's a bit much. All forms of music CAN be a vessel for social and political commentary. However very few, if any genres, are SOLELY about social and political commentary.

Again, I do believe it will be impossible for find any rap or hip-hop artist who sings about political and social issues without interjecting a bit of themselves, but again...if you need a few more...

All Available Artists in Political Rap - Free Music Downloads - MP3 Downloads - Download.com Music

Political Rap Music Artists - AOL Music (be sure to click on each letter to see all the artists)

And hey...if you really really really want a rap song that pure politics without any sense of self from the "artist" there's always stuff like this.

Fmeh

Mukatsuku, those were kind-of cool. <grin> I wish I knew Japanese though. It's interesting, the mix between English and Japanese in these songs.

Mukatsuku

Because it's constantly mixing the two together, it's REALLY difficult to follow - I need to focus on one language at a time, though need to practice being able to do both.

Glad you liked them.

Mukatsuku

The only one of them I know is Arrested Development I like Arrested Development though (well, I've only heard a couple of songs from them, but I liked them)

Joseph Worthington

The first and only time I've ever heard "shway" is in reference to the cartoon Batman Beyond.

O.P.P stands for Other People's Property.

The rest? You got me.

Mukatsuku

Oh, btw, the last video I posted "fuyu gonna love" is a play on words.

Fuyu = Winter and they are singing about a winter love.

In Japanese there is no sound for "who", or "hoo" - the closest sound there is in Japanese is "foo" or "fu" so "fuyu" is often how a Japanese person will pronounce "who you"

Fmeh

I'm REALLY REALLY glad I saved this at last minute to my wordpad or this whole post would have been lost when the board went down again.

You're correct about talking politics without being really pissed of can be lame. That Huckabee song is a perfect example. :lol:

I was just trying to find something that avoids the whole ak47, drive-by's, the violent stereotypes--but I understand that many people have experienced living around those things, but there are others who have NOT experienced those things who still talk as if they have, and that's disappointing, which is probably those artists who people basically call FAKE.

The thing is--one shouldn't have to come from those backgrounds in order to make rap or hip-hop, and they shouldn't have to talk about the hood or the ghetto in order to supplement the music, and I think those are the artists I'm really looking for. I can't relate with "the hood"--I don't know how to relate to it at all, all I know is that the people who are living in some of those neighborhoods, especially the really ghetto neighborhoods have lived some really shitty lives, and it sucks that they have to live that way, and I know most of them really don't have much choice in the matter--they're just trying to survive.

A really sad thing is that there have been some people--god I wish I could remember his name--well, he wasn't raised in the hood, he was slightly heavyset, and he was supposed to be one of the nicest guys out there--and he got killed in a drive by shooting and media tried their best to make him look like some sort of gangster when he was FAR from being that way. I just wish for the life of me I could remember his name.

Thanks for the names of those artists. I'm checking those out tonight (torrents). Some of them I had heard OF before but hadn't actually heard them before.

My favorite rap album is from the 90's, it's called Tical, by Method Man featuring Wu-Tang. It has by far some of the most interesting and BEST mixing I've ever heard--some of the songs have 8 layers of samples going on in the background BESIDES the rhythm. I don't know what most of the songs are talking about, but I've listened to the album at least 30 times. I love it, and it is one of those groups that it doesn't really matter whether I can understand what they're saying--the genius in the mixing and the whole production is just fantastic. I would never have heard that album if I wouldn't have been one of those people who finds a tape someone throws out of their car because it got eaten, maybe gets run over, but the tape inside is still good--so I put the tape in another casette casing, splice it where I have to, and pop it in my tape deck. It took until last year for me to FINALLY find out who it was when I looked up the few words I could actually understand. It was "what's that shit you've been smoking" "pass it over here". Oh wait--that's what that word "gow" was--it was Tical, not GOW. Duh!! Why didn't I remember that. Oh well....

I'd like to find more albums like that one.

I've also listened to ICP and Beastie Boys. ICP I can actually understand the lyrics most of the time, and that guy ranks on a LOT of stuff, some of the songs are hilarious. Beastie Boys I can understand 1 out of every 10 words. And then of course there's Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang, especially the part about "the food you ate". Who in their right mind could dislike that song?

Clancy Sullivan

What is the SLUniverse hip hop/rap/gangsta song, anyway??

Fmeh

I've been an ass in this thread. I've also been a hypocrite.

I'm glad that this forum is here and that I'm able to discuss things that I'm emotional about--I'm able to see if my emotions are valid, to see if my feeling strongly about something is just a feeling or whether it's really based on reality or not. People who have seen my posts here before have probably seen me go off the deep end before, and this thread was no exception to that. In this thread, my emotions have proven to be over-the-top, and my paranoia ended up being the main drive for my feelings on this subject.

Earlier tonight, after band practice, I made it a goal to at least go and talk to a couple people that I considered to be from the "hip hop" culture, and we had a really nice conversation. It's still sometimes hard for me to understand the accent, but there are lots of accents that are hard to understand--I haven't got to hear many people from Brooklyn very often, but when I have, sometimes that's pretty rough too.

I think it just takes an open mind, and my mind was CLOSED, completely CLOSED.

In the past on this forum, or was it Second Citizen--I can't remember which, I had some heated discussions about the gay community and I eventually came to some realizations.

That's one thing I really like about the people here. Even if I'm nasty about something, people are still willing to discuss things, and they're willing to tell me when I'm wrong WITHOUT being nasty about it--I've gotten treated here with more respect than I think I've given other people, and I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Tyche Shepherd

Probably "Dramsta's Paradise" or "Drive by LolCatz"

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Betty Barracuda

That would be Biggie Smalls aka Notorious B.I.G.

I would like to comment on something you said earlier in the thread
Honestly, I don't care if there's a bunch of "homies" or a bunch of grandmas with walkers talking shit about me, the best thing to do in those situations is always to just walk away. If you talk back and get involved, then you're just asking for it. That's simple survival instinct. That has nothing do to with hip hop culture. ANY group of people who start making nasty comments about you = get the f**k out!

As far as gays and hip hop, I don't know about where you are from but here, hip hop/rap night is one of the busiest nights in this large gay club downtown. The crowd is totally mixed, you have gays and straight dancing the night away, and yes, even the "homies" join in the fun. I have never seen or heard about any of them waiting outside the club to beat up gays. I can't talk about your experience obviously, but I thought I'd add my two cents about my experience, perhaps to give you a different perspective.

To conclude, a little bit of funny to lighten the mood. I think he sums this whole thread up pretty well

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Betty B.

Asher Bertrand

This is why I like you. You're a cool guy, Fmeh.