SLUniverse Forums

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 09:39 AM

Yesterday Cris had to close a thread because of legal reasons. The topic was marijuana.

I do not question Cris for doing so, it is his forum, he pays the bills so who would I be to question his judegment.

I do question our society. Has it become illegal to even talk about illegal substances? How does TV shows get away with it? What happened to free speech? Can they really put fines or close a forum like this down because someone expressed interest in the subject?

Cris I want to say once again, I am not questioning your judgement, I am questioning our society that would make someone feel threatend enough to end such a conversation.

Ned Easterwood · 01-11-2008, 09:46 AM

As was pointed out in another thread Alas, I need to close this thread for legal reasons., Cris had to close it because people were talking about where to buy marijuana. Different issue entirely.

Michael Bigwig · 01-11-2008, 09:48 AM

It's not about free speech...it's about pleasing the investors. Just ask any Hollywood movie director or writer.

Just as freely as free speech, an investor can threaten to pull funding based solely on their own personal beliefs or ideals...that's not unconstitutional, that's business.

Muffie May · 01-11-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beathag_McMahon

As was pointed out in another thread, Cris had to close it because people were talking about where to buy marijuana. Different issue entirely.

Yeah that's definitely not a good thing.

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Bigwig

It's not about free speech...it's about pleasing the investors. Just ask any Hollywood movie director or writer.

Just as freely as free speech, an investor can threaten to pull funding based solely on their own personal beliefs or ideals...that's not unconstitutional, that's business.

Yes, I do know how business works. He specifically said legal reasons however.

He may have just said as an easy way out, which I state again I am fine with, he pays the bills.

Mordos Yering · 01-11-2008, 09:56 AM

An overly litigious society doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with free speech.

Serenity · 01-11-2008, 09:56 AM

Drugs are illegal. Sorry to all the recreational users but you are 'breakin' da law'.

As such, providing a venue to discuss where to find them, or even to provide discussion on using them, could be easily construed as "aiding and abetting".

Would you be so up in arms if someone wanted to discuss the best sources for fertilizer in bulk for a truck bomb "just hypothetically" and they got shot down?

As for free speech, you're welcome to talk about what ever you want. Just as Chris is welcome to censor on this forum as much as he wants.

You are also more than welcome to yack about your need to move some weed right infront of an undercover cop. But do you think they're going to let it pass just because you have the right to free speech?

Besides, the right to free speech is intended to protect political discourse, not the sharing of how to engage in illegal activities.

Serenity

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 09:57 AM

Sorry I didnt realize there was already a thread on this. THanks Beathag.

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

As for free speech, you're welcome to talk about what ever you want. Just as Chris is welcome to censor on this forum as much as he wants.

Besides, the right to free speech is intended to protect political discourse, not the sharing of how to engage in illegal activities.

Serenity

Yes Serenity and I made it clear I was not questioning his decision. I understand this is his forum

No free speech does not have restraints. I am free to talk about whatever I want. If what you are saying was correct we would not be able to lobby to get laws changed. There are marijuana legalization rallys all the time.

If they limited free speech they could pass any law they wanted and then not let us voice an opinion to get it changed.

I can walk right up to a police officer and tell him I am on my way to go buy some weed. He can not arrest me until I am actually caught with it.

Anyways I am off to the other thread someone already started on this subject.

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 10:07 AM

Serenity, Josh posted this in the other thread that makes much more sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

It became a thread about the best places to find it, which can throw Cris in legal liability with his host.

So it was due to a legal contract between him and the hosting company that these forums sit on.

Makes much more sense to me.

Cindy Claveau · 01-11-2008, 10:35 AM

"Free Speech" is an overused and misunderstood concept. Just because most of us live in democracies doesn't mean we can do or say anything we want.

Most nations forbid speech which endangers the public safety ("Fire!"), or which encourages law-breaking -- including the overthrow of that nation's government.

Moreover, "Free Speech" only applies in areas of public discourse such as media, speeches, interpersonal conversation, etc. It never applies to privately owned venues like internet forums. There, the owners of the venue determine what can and cannot be said, often forming their rules according to what they could personally be held liable for allowing.

You don't really have a "right" to free speech here. None of us do.

Kristian · 01-11-2008, 10:38 AM

When SC shut down I briefly entertained the idea of doing a no-holds-barred forum, but that died pretty quickly as I realized it would drive me farther into my 'humans sucks and must be made extinct' mindset.

Mordos Yering · 01-11-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Ming

When SC shut down I briefly entertained the idea of doing a no-holds-barred forum, but that died pretty quickly as I realized it would drive me farther into my 'humans sucks and must be made extinct' mindset.

For the same reason, I don't want to ever have mod powers. The banhammer might turn into a game of whack-a-mole.

ZATZAi · 01-11-2008, 10:44 AM

You know how the DMCA declares it illegal to tell someone how to circumvent DRM? And also makes research that might lead to the breaking of DRM illegal (And by extension some cryptology research)? It's like that...

Arguably these laws are unconstitutional, but they have to be challenged in the superior court before they're stricken down and rendered impotent.

...

Oh and the right to free spech, or protection from censorship, only protects you from government influence. You can be censored by private entities to hell and back, so long as the government doesn't back it in any way.

Beau Perkins · 01-11-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZATZAi

...

Oh and the right to free spech, or protection from censorship, only protects you from government influence. You can be censored by private entities to hell and back, so long as the government doesn't back it in any way.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes, I know that.

Did everybody skip this line.

" I do not question Cris for doing so, it is his forum, he pays the bills so who would I be to question his judegment."

He worded it as a legal issue. Which Joshua made clear to me in the other thread that he meant a legal issue with the host .

Cindy Claveau · 01-11-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordos Yering

For the same reason, I don't want to ever have mod powers. The banhammer might turn into a game of whack-a-mole.

I've moderated a number of boards over the last 10 years, and still moderate one. It's a completely thankless job - no matter how fair and moderate you are, some dipshit is going to get upset, threaten you, insult you in public, and play IP proxy games to bypass your bans. You have to hold yourself back from the fray quite a bit and keep the "good of the board" uppermost in your mind, and what fun is that?

ZATZAi · 01-11-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes, I know that.

Did everybody skip this line.

" I do not question Cris for doing so, it is his forum, he pays the bills so who would I be to question his judegment."

He worded it as a legal issue. Which Joshua made clear to me in the other thread that he meant a legal issue with the host .

I figured you knew, you were asking a philosophical question about society rather than ranting against the laws. Or so it appeared, I just stated the boilerplater legal situation.

For others if not your benefit/understanding.

Serenity · 01-11-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

I can walk right up to a police officer and tell him I am on my way to go buy some weed. He can not arrest me until I am actually caught with it.
.

No... but I'm pretty sure that your comment would be sufficent enough cause to search your car, person etc for other illegal products.

You have a right not incriminate yourself, but.... I have a feeling that confessing to being interested in buying weed is sufficent enough to establish "probable cause".

Serenity

Mukatsuku · 01-11-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

No... but I'm pretty sure that your comment would be sufficent enough cause to search your car, person etc for other illegal products.

You have a right not incriminate yourself, but.... I have a feeling that confessing to being interested in buying weed is sufficent enough to establish "probable cause".

Serenity

It would certainly cause you problems, just like when airport staff ask you the usual "do you have anything in your hand luggage that could be construed as a weapon?" and you answer, "only some anthrax and a hand grenade" then wonder why the large, sweaty guard is putting is rubber gloves on and reaching for the K-Y

CoyoteMomiji · 01-11-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordos Yering

For the same reason, I don't want to ever have mod powers. The banhammer might turn into a game of whack-a-mole.

OH GOD YOU HAVE NO IDEA SOME DAYS.

Ten · 01-11-2008, 11:17 PM

I used to ban a lot of snotty little teenage bastards when I ran a server on Counter Strike.

I got really ban-happy. Cris, for the most part, is doing very well exercising self control.

Okay, so I still get ban-happy too on SCD sometimes. But only for people that think it's their own personal "Tenshi's a fucking bitch" forum... and most of the ones that get banned say exactly what I just made up.

I don't like letting those particular comments go through, and the poster usually finds themselves unable to post any longer. I'm fine with a disagreeing post, a healthy debate... but when you start attacking me, Iris, or any one of our commenters in such a personal manner, you're outta there.

Aodhan McDunnough · 01-12-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

You have a right not incriminate yourself, but.... I have a feeling that confessing to being interested in buying weed is sufficent enough to establish "probable cause".

Serenity

You have a right to not incriminate yourself. But that only applies if you don't give out information. You have a right to not incriminate yourself but it doesn't mean that you can't incriminate yourself.

"What you say can and will be used against you in the court of law."

It is correct to say that an expressed interest in buying weed WILL be probable cause for surveillance of some sort.

01-11-2008, 09:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Is a sickly peach color I'm a heretical Jew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 5,963 SL Join Date: 12/24/2003 My Mood:	Right Of Free Speech? Yesterday Cris had to close a thread because of legal reasons. The topic was marijuana. I do not question Cris for doing so, it is his forum, he pays the bills so who would I be to question his judegment. I do question our society. Has it become illegal to even talk about illegal substances? How does TV shows get away with it? What happened to free speech? Can they really put fines or close a forum like this down because someone expressed interest in the subject? Cris I want to say once again, I am not questioning your judgement, I am questioning our society that would make someone feel threatend enough to end such a conversation. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed Misunderstanding all you see It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out It doesn't matter much to me -John Lennon.

01-11-2008, 09:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ned Easterwood Mereille's Guy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Detroit, Mi. Posts: 9,180 SL Join Date: 5/4/2007 My Mood:	As was pointed out in another thread Alas, I need to close this thread for legal reasons., Cris had to close it because people were talking about where to buy marijuana. Different issue entirely. __________________ Ned Take 'er easy for all the sinners of the world, dude. Abide. And amen. http://www.dudeism.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Claymore of Loving Kindness Unitarian Jihad Last edited by Ned Easterwood; 01-11-2008 at 09:51 AM. Reason: add link

01-11-2008, 09:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Michael Bigwig ~VRML Aficionado~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Riverside, Rhode Island Posts: 1,846 SL Join Date: 12/02/05 Business: Glowbox Designs Blog Entries: 1 SLShopper Ads: 2	It's not about free speech...it's about pleasing the investors. Just ask any Hollywood movie director or writer. Just as freely as free speech, an investor can threaten to pull funding based solely on their own personal beliefs or ideals...that's not unconstitutional, that's business. __________________ ~Michael Bigwig ___________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs

01-11-2008, 09:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mordos Yering What? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,543 SL Join Date: October 24, 2006 Business: Cortech Enterprises SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	An overly litigious society doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with free speech. __________________ "We can no longer live as rats. We know too much." -- Nicodemus The Secret of Nimh <:3 )~~~~ Cortech Enterprises Alternate Location Cortech at Shop.OnRez

01-11-2008, 09:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
Serenity Logged Out Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,550	Drugs are illegal. Sorry to all the recreational users but you are 'breakin' da law'. As such, providing a venue to discuss where to find them, or even to provide discussion on using them, could be easily construed as "aiding and abetting". Would you be so up in arms if someone wanted to discuss the best sources for fertilizer in bulk for a truck bomb "just hypothetically" and they got shot down? As for free speech, you're welcome to talk about what ever you want. Just as Chris is welcome to censor on this forum as much as he wants. You are also more than welcome to yack about your need to move some weed right infront of an undercover cop. But do you think they're going to let it pass just because you have the right to free speech? Besides, the right to free speech is intended to protect political discourse, not the sharing of how to engage in illegal activities. Serenity __________________ "I don't care, I'm still free; you can't take the sky from me."

01-11-2008, 09:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Is a sickly peach color I'm a heretical Jew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 5,963 SL Join Date: 12/24/2003 My Mood:	Sorry I didnt realize there was already a thread on this. THanks Beathag.

01-11-2008, 10:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cindy Claveau Favorite color: clear What Sarah said! Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7,457 SL Join Date: May, 2005 My Mood: Awards: 1	"Free Speech" is an overused and misunderstood concept. Just because most of us live in democracies doesn't mean we can do or say anything we want. Most nations forbid speech which endangers the public safety ("Fire!"), or which encourages law-breaking -- including the overthrow of that nation's government. Moreover, "Free Speech" only applies in areas of public discourse such as media, speeches, interpersonal conversation, etc. It never applies to privately owned venues like internet forums. There, the owners of the venue determine what can and cannot be said, often forming their rules according to what they could personally be held liable for allowing. You don't really have a "right" to free speech here. None of us do. __________________ "Treble is for pussies." - Saints Row 2 DJ

01-11-2008, 10:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kristian stored in the cloud Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,497 SL Join Date: 2/26/2005 My Mood:	When SC shut down I briefly entertained the idea of doing a no-holds-barred forum, but that died pretty quickly as I realized it would drive me farther into my 'humans sucks and must be made extinct' mindset.

01-11-2008, 10:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
ZATZAi Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 2,423 XBOX Leaderboard: 8^th	You know how the DMCA declares it illegal to tell someone how to circumvent DRM? And also makes research that might lead to the breaking of DRM illegal (And by extension some cryptology research)? It's like that... Arguably these laws are unconstitutional, but they have to be challenged in the superior court before they're stricken down and rendered impotent. ... Oh and the right to free spech, or protection from censorship, only protects you from government influence. You can be censored by private entities to hell and back, so long as the government doesn't back it in any way. __________________ - ZATZAi