Jesse Barnett

And one other point I did not see expressed here. It may give her the chance at closure and the ability to put that phase of her life behind her. I know from expirience that sometimes it is more then just the coffin that gets buried.

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Coffee smells like freshly ground heaven. ~Jessi Lane Adams

Beebo Brink

Save money, go to Al-Anon. Dealing with alcholism is a very particular dynamic, and getting re-inforcement from other people on how to deal with the alcoholics in your life, even if in the past, is the best kind of therapy.

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VictoriannaWriter

It's not so much more about him being an alcoholic or having another disease, it's the fact of the way he abused her. He could have not been alcoholic and still abuse her....the fact remains he abused her, alcoholic or not, his actions of abuse to her was wrong.

This is a part of her life that she needs to close up. And I agree with Cindy, no one deserves to die no matter what....but also at the same time no one deserves to be abused physically or mentally.

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Chrissy

Maybe I missed some of the responses that your referring to but from what I have read here I took the comments to be more toward the abuse he did to his wife not what he died from. I don't think it really matters how he died the fact everyone is concerned about is that he was abusive to his wife.

If he was an X who was a good non-abusive person and things just did not work out between them, I don't think it would be such a big issue on if she should or should not go to his funeral.


Wow you said that perfectly! I always felt that many use the excuse that its the “disease" making them abusive. I even had a counselor from inside the hospital he was admitted into to dry out tell me that it did not matter that he beat me cause he was drunk/high at the time and could not help himself like it was “ok” that he beat me and that if I did not take him back I was a bad wife. She talked me into going back to him which that time I did.




Cindy your a very special person and friend to your friend for helping her leave him. I wish that I had a friend like you when I was going through that my X made sure all my friends stopped being my friend so at the time I had none I was not allowed to have any.

When your the best friend or family member of someone being abused by their spouse all you see is the abuse and your love for that person makes you want to protect them by getting them away from the abuser. But unless you have been there yourself its very hard to understand that the victims in these cases are very much in love with their spouse making it very hard to leave or let go. In many cases they believe the abuse is their own fault also you keep hoping he will stop wanting things to be as they were before the abuse started.

16 years ago when I first left my abusive X I did not want to leave him I was still in love with him but I "had" to leave him and it was not for my own safety I had to leave when I found out he was abusing my son. I know strange I was willing to risk my own life but when he started on my son there was no way I would risk my sons life who was 7 at the time. And still it was the hardest thing I ever had to do cause even through all the hell he put me through I was still in love with him. A part of me felt like I was being a bad wife after all he had a disease and instead of staying to help him I left. If he had any other disease I would have stayed by him but he was putting my sons and my life in danger.

Cindy I hope what I have said above has helped you maybe understand your friends feelings a little better. I know it must be hard for you since your also dealing with your own anger toward her X for what he did to her. I am sure she senses your anger toward him and might be afraid to admit that she still loves him to you.

Cindy before and after you go with your friend to this funeral be sure to take the time to pamper yourself do something you enjoy cause you deserve it! You’re a very special person for being there for your friend at this time. She is very lucky to have you.

Cindy Claveau

It wasn't easy, even for me. But I've been a friend to this woman most of my life and I wasn't about to abandon her when she told me what was going on.

The guy hated my guts and I didn't care. He accused me of trying to get his wife to leave him and I pointed out that he had already lost her due to his own actions. I wasn't under his codependency spell, didn't put up with his lying and manipulation and he hated me for that. I didn't care. My friend came first.

After about the 3rd time he smacked her around and she spent the night at my house, I finally convinced her that staying with him wasn't going to improve a thing - *if* he was serious about changing, she should make him start showing some effort before she swallowed his BS. He refused counseling, claimed that the detox clinics and AA were a "waste of time" and swore he could lick the disease all by himself.

I watched my brother go through all that and I knew the signs and pitfalls. In my brother's case, though, he's been sober for over a decade because he finally owned up to his own problems, joined AA and got a good sponsor.

At every step, however, I tried to make sure she was making her own decisions. The times she went back to him, I didn't argue with her. I just reminded her that she could stay with me if need be. I think that sort of support helped give her a little courage - she wasn't facing this alone.

That may be the answer I needed to this quandry. If she wants me there with her and wants to attend the funeral, I'm going for her. She won't have to face it alone.

__________________
Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Argent Stonecutter

Shelly

Maybe for her own peace of mind she needs to go, pay her respects and leave it all behind her. She certainly needs to cut any ties with the parents. But like most things in life, we do them in our own time and when we are ready.

Ultimately your friend will make her own choice about what's best, unfortunately all you can do is be there for the fallout.

I personally wouldn't waste my spit on my ex husbands grave!

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Lead me not into temptation, I can find it myself

Roxanne Blue

Yeah, well, I DID say I horrified myself... which I think is beyond "appalled". Anyway...

I have my own history with alcoholics, and the damage they cause to their extended families as well as those cursed to live with them. My ex-wife chose a real "Man's Man" as her second husband, and had a daughter with him. He was (and is) a drunk - which is the term I use for alcoholics who refuse to see their own problem or seek help.

Before this jerk came along, my ex and I swapped custody of my son every other day, and had a good co-parenting structure. Number Two was jealous / threatened by that arrangement and demanded she cut me back to every other weekend... 4 days a month on average. I HATED that miserable insecure macho son-of-bitch with every fiber of my being for a long time...

He abused my ex, their daughter, and my son - mostly emotionally, but also by the terror of dealing with his drunken rages. He was arrested drunk, driving at over 80 miles an hour on a city street, and the cops had to run his pickup off the road to prevent innocents dying at this idiot's hands.

I also have friends who suffer from alcoholism, and get treatment and support to maintain their sobriety. It's a very difficult disease to manage, but it is possible to control it. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who take responsibility for their disease treatment.

I've known families in which the denial / refusal of treatment for diabetes was in some ways as self-destructive and ultimately destructive of the family as a family in which alcoholism went untreated. Denial and anger don't always need booze or drugs to fuel them..

and, abuse is abuse!

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Roxanne Blue... Baroness De Bitche

"Sometimes... there's just a little girl inside of each and every one of us who's looking for people who understand..." - Xiomara.

Beebo Brink

This is why Al-Anon is always my preferred advice. I know most counselors aren't that egregiously incompetent, but unless there's some other complicating emotional issue, AA groups have the knowledge and track record to provide support. First and foremost, they will emphasize getting yourself to safety and learning how to love someone without being a punching bag.

Chrissy

I am sure he did you where a threat to him.

Thats wonderful I am happy for your brother.

She is very lucky to have you. I am sure your support gave her much more then just a little courage to leave him. I bet if it was not for you she would of still been with him today.

Rose Alba Karuna

Any help would be good for her. People who come out of these sorts of abusive relationships have what amounts to PTSD.

I grew up in Al Anon and I agree, sometimes you hit on a great group and they really help.

I'm just one of those people who is not comfortable being in large groups of strangers discussing very intimate things. If you're that sort of person then having a good therapist can be a life saver (I can attest to this from personal experience).

Also, I have never been particularly comfortable with the "God" thing that tends to permeates AA and Al Anon in some geographic areas. It can be overwhelming and stressful for someone who is a non-believer and additional stress is the last thing a person who has had their life disassembled needs.

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Cindy Claveau

And that's the key - one can't just go to their first group, feel like an outsider and leave. In some of the larger cities there are dozens of Al-Anon and AA groups, each with its own personality. My brother lives in a larger city and tells me that when he needs it, he can attend 2 or 3 meetings a night. It's nice to have choices.

There's so much truth to this. But people like you and I are such a small minority that there's not much chance of the non-religious AA groups spreading very far.

Still, they're out there. Rational Recovery, Smart Recovery and Secular Sobriety are just three. Again, the larger the metro area in which you live, the better chance you'll have of finding one.

Roxanne Blue

You're pretty special yourself, Chrissy. If we once truly love someone, it can be painfully hard to let go of the person and the hope that love embodies... But, there's nothing like a threat to our children to make us cut through the fog of feelings to the reality of the threat. I'm glad you were able to find your way out of Hell...

Beebo Brink

Meh. I'm as atheist as they come, but AA's vague higher power thang isn't religious so much as spiritual. You can equate it with a Divine Being or with the laws of the universe, so I didn't find that concept an impediment to my understanding of the underlying principles. A lot of it is just good old-fashioned behavior modification to adopt functional strategies for interacting with other people.

I'm also an extremely private person, and a bit wary of groups because of being gay, but I found the group format to be one of the strengths of Al-Anon. It reminded me that I can learn a great deal from people who at first glance are radically different from me and that we tend to have more in common as humans than we often acknowledge. Seeing people at all stages of dealing with the alcoholics in their life was a reinforcement of where I had been and where I could go if I kept at it.

Allana Dion

(deleted) Lots of other people already said it well.

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blergh thing

Trout Rated!
Playful, yet sultry and smoky. I am giving you a 6.8 on the Trout Recreant Rating Scale of Sluttiness. Congratulations! You are not a slut, but given the right situation, you certainly have the potential.

Serene S.

Cindy, I think your friend probably should go to the funeral. If there was still a slight "hold" on her from this man, the funeral will end that tie for her, which could be powerful. I also agree that, if you are able, you should go with her to the funeral. It sounds like you always have her back, and this is probably the perfect time to have her back once again.

Whatever she decides, I wish her, and you, the best outcome of the decision. It sounds like she's already made it through so much, she should get through this just fine. A friend like you is the best help in a situation liket this.

Cindy Claveau

That's all well and good on paper, until they close the meeting with the Serenity Prayer, whose first word is "God".

Cindy Claveau

Update: The funeral was yesterday. My friend atttended but declined to sit with the family. She told them she was there to gain some closure for herself, not to pay homage to their son. For my friend, that's a very bluntly honest thing to say.

I was very proud of her. Since she kicked the drunk out, she's become so much stronger and more independent. I kept telling her I'd be happy to accompany her to the funeral but she refused gratefully.

This morning she says she's glad she went and feels like she finally closed that chapter of her life. I cautioned her that statistics predict her next relationship could be very similar unless she undergoes some intensive self-examination, preferably with a counselor. I'm not pushing that as it doesn't sound like she's ready.

I'm left feeling like people get into these deadly cycles in their lives without ever being able to find their way out. At least my friend took a brave step. But it's always the next step that is the dangerous one.

Roxanne Blue

You know how much that act of bravery cost her, Cindy, and you have to hope that increased self-awareness will serve her better in the future. Too many people think they are "trapped" in these cycles, when only they have the power to change them. Thanks for sharing your friendship here.

Cindy Claveau

You can fuck with my paycheck and I may get mad.

You can fuck with my health insurance and I may let off steam.

You can even fuck with my political opinions and I'll just vote against you next election.

But if you fuck with my friends, I will rip your head off with my bare hands and use your skull as a potted plant!

/me smiles sweetly

Roxanne Blue

Seems clear enough.......

I feel that's a perfectly reasonable standard of behavior, Cindy...

Chrissy

Thanks that is sweet of you.



Cindy Claveau how is your friend doing?

Cindy Claveau

Thanks for asking

She's fine now. He crushed her feelings for her during the marriage with all his drunken abuse, and she told me she was surprised at how little she felt during the funeral. Sad that it ended as it did, but not really missing him any more.

I think she's found a place where she can be nostalgic for the good things they once had, but still be realistic about how the drinking turned him into a stranger she didn't know and didn't love.