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Old 10-06-2009, 07:07 PM   #201 (permalink)
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. Members of the mob must have been rabidly hitting refresh on the topic so they could post more drivel/hate/lolcats.

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LIE!!!!
the NEW POSTS button is much more effective.. in this way we can post moah LOLcats and moah drivel on a wider variety of topics.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:14 PM   #202 (permalink)
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to everything Humps just said.

Another often overlooked aspect of forum behavior is that many of us tend to check out threads where people we like or admire are posting. If I'm scanning the New Posts lists and see that Humps, for instance, has posted the last comment, I may go read a thread I would otherwise skip because I tend to enjoy his posts very much. And then, of course, I'm tempted to post as well because I'm naturally opinonated, which may look like an intentional pile up of friends, but isn't at all that conscious or deliberate.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:54 PM   #203 (permalink)
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On the question of "style" - As for myself, I find the whole "I'm just blunt that's just the way I roll too bad if you don't like it but I'm honest and honesty means not caring what you think" persona to be tiresome, droll, immature, and disingenuous. I have an immediate negative reaction to that sort of thing no matter who it comes from or in whatever "realm" - RL, SL, forums or talking around the water cooler.

Also, characterizing normal human social lubrication like being nice and introducing yourself and getting to know people before you post a divergent opinion as having to "kiss ass" is also suspect. The exaggeration is telling - someone who believes that simple protocols for keeping the peace are onerous and motivated by ego suggests that they don't want normal rules to apply to them - the rules are somehow beneath them. And for me, even if I don't like someone's opinion I do not have a visceral negative reaction if they go about it in a reasoned way that shows respect for the audience.

But come at me with a "fuck you if you don't like my 'tude" approach, which is usually combined with molasses-thick condescension, and it really grates on me and I may - and have - responded badly to same.

As I have quoted often times before: "A skunk is better company than a person who prides himself on being 'frank'".

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Old 10-06-2009, 08:06 PM   #204 (permalink)
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I've seen topics where the clique did nothing to contribute except try to derail the topic, harrass a certain unpopular poster, make more posts telling them to stop posting, high five each other for their amazing skills at pwning the unpopular person in an internet forum and generally trying to bully that person into shutting up.

...

*I'm also sure I've seen topics deliberately turned to flames in order to cause a lock, and thus bully the OP, but I don't recall specifics right now.
Again, I think there are other possible interpretations of this, depending on one's perspective.

I have seen threads in which people do announce that they are trying to derail the topic. Most often this seems to occur after two sides to an issue have done some serious disagreeing, and it appears that that observers to the fight are stepping in because they want it to end. Are they doing so to stifle one side? Perhaps. But maybe they simply are sick of the argument...or the debaters. As the reasons for the attempted derail are rarely given, your interpretation may vary from others.

I have also seen posters get chewed up by several people, all with the same complaint, which at times boils down to little more than "Gaaaah. You are irritating the crap out of me". Is this "harassing an unpopular poster" or a true expression of frustration? Who can say with certainty except the participants? Sure, some people are easier targets than others - few were going to oppose the jeering of Ms. YouTube with the aborted fetuses collages, to cite one. But I'm not certain this amounts to the collusion you are suggesting.

And I have also seen posts which amount to little more than a wish that another poster would shut up. I have authored some of these, I'm sure. It may cause some people to walk away, especially if they confuse one person's actions with that of a group or think that silence from others means agreement. But that's life on the internet and not just at SLU.

As for someone deliberately flaming/posting in order to get a lock, the times that I can recall this occurring involve people who were subsequently banned or suspended.

Yes, bullying happens. But whether a situation is bullying or passionate people strongly stating their opinion usually depends on your perspective.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:25 PM   #205 (permalink)
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This is no different than hearing Camille described as a troll because she has an abrasive style. Some forum members are convinced that she is deliberating being antagonistic just to stir shit, just as I am convinced she is debating issues that matter to her, in a manner that is true to her nature but unpalatable to some people. In all cases we are in no position to know her motivations, we can only guess.
Anyone can only ever guess at another person's motivations and intentions. Language can be a blunt instrument in conveying those, and written language even more so.

I think in the case where someone is being misunderstood on a consistent basis by more than one person (speaking hypothetically because I missed whatever instigated this thread) then they should be self-reflective enough to step back and work out why their language style is irritating or confusing to people. Not to change it, but to at least try and make the intent more clear. Otherwise confusion and misinterpretation will continue.

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Old 10-06-2009, 08:47 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:51 PM   #207 (permalink)
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I suspect the reality lies somewhere in the middle. I don't think there is or has ever been a concious effort to act as a group to beat someone down.
Just because you didn't get invited to the meetings and nobody sent you a decoder ring doesn't mean you can make crazy assertions, Mr. Humps!

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Old 10-06-2009, 08:53 PM   #208 (permalink)
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All these arguments still lead me to believe this is more of a group based site with certain norms decided upon by a loud minority.

What led me to believe these things? Or decide that abrasiveness was my tact? When I first came back to these forums the big thread was a jump upon Fmeh for an avatar a few didn't like. It was a group mentality that wanted to decide what someone else could represent themselves as. I didn't like, which in My viewpoint, were the hypocritical actions from people who were against the avatar in question.

Then we have the jump upon Ned for talking in third person about his alt AV. Recently and in the past (I recently read an old thread).

We have new people come here, and gods forbid they don't know the proper SLU forum etiquette, for they get jumped upon the instant they post.

And you wonder why I post what I do? Perhaps I don't have quite the tact and polish I should, but neither do many of you. The derailment of threads by offtopic posts or intentional snarkiness is worse trolling in my eyes than any contrary opinion. But go ahead, it's just pixels on the screen, right? In that case why would anything I post bother any of you?
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:53 PM   #209 (permalink)
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:58 PM   #210 (permalink)
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All these arguments still lead me to believe this is more of a group based site with certain norms decided upon by a loud minority.
So you think that this is a site with an established group of people and a set of norms that are tacitly agreed upon by most of the people who invest time here? And you object because people who fail to abide by these norms run into trouble? Does this work anywhere else for you?
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:04 PM   #211 (permalink)
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So you think that this is a site with an established group of people and a set of norms that are tacitly agreed upon by most of the people who invest time here? And you object because people who fail to abide by these norms run into trouble? Does this work anywhere else for you?
Actually this is the first site I've really seen it in action.
The only other one I saw it on was a forum with at most 20 members.

Keep in mind this is my opinion of this site. I have not said I don't like SLU, I have just stated how it seems to me.

I don't think people are in the background negotiating how to handle each poster. I do think, however, there is a certain mindset when it comes to reacting to certain posters. A sort of free for all of "Let's see who can drive their theory/story/etc. into the ground first because we don't like their spelling or behavior."
I do agree that some posters have come here with false stories - the kid in the apt block who probably got his mom banned from SL - things like that. But the majority is more like a flock of seagulls going after a lone french fry on the ground.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:06 PM   #212 (permalink)
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On the question of "style"


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Old 10-06-2009, 09:07 PM   #213 (permalink)
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So you think that this is a site with an established group of people and a set of norms that are tacitly agreed upon by most of the people who invest time here? And you object because people who fail to abide by these norms run into trouble? Does this work anywhere else for you?
whoa - WB Arilynn.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:08 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Why are people so defensive about being in a clique? Own yourself. Be glad you have people at your back. Enjoy the camaraderie. There are plenty of cliques here, there, and everywhere. Even in this thread. They have no real control over anything anyway, and certainly have no power over you or I unless you want them to have. It's not really that big a deal. Or it shouldn’t be anyway. If it is a big deal, you need to take a break from the PC and avoid the internet.

I don't really care how many people agree with me, or how many people I make groan, or what will be dragged up from my post history when the shit hits the fan. I honestly don't care, and I don't know why it matters to anyone else. None of that will ever play into what I post here or anywhere. I will take each post as it comes and treat it accordingly. I will always post exactly what I think is necessary to get my point of view across, unfiltered and unashamed, and sure as hell wont be sugar coating it. Everyone is an adult here and knows how to work their own filters. If I offend anyone, so what? Be offended. It doesn’t hurt. If people agree, great. I’m not here for gold stars and kudos. If that’s why you are here, good for you. Enjoy it. If I find myself as part of a clique, so what? Really, so what? Last time I checked, nobody ever died because of anything I typed, and I’m certainly still alive.

Things get blown right out of proportion on t’internet. Even here, people are describing extremes to illustrate their point - extremes that I don’t even believe exist, or certainly have not seen. I’ve never met the person who stormed right in calling the shots, giving everyone a round of fucks, and I’ve never met the all powerful elite who take no shit and hand peoples asses to them on a plate if they don’t like their attitude. All I see here is just a bunch of decidedly average people doing what millions of other people are doing on a million other forums. If ever I find I don’t like someone to an extreme, I’ll just delete them from my sphere of existence. I can count the amount of times I’ve had to do that on one hand, they were so few. And I’ve been in some proper shit-pit forums.

All in all, it’s business as usual, and nobody has to be here if they don’t like it.

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Old 10-06-2009, 09:08 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:09 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:18 PM   #217 (permalink)
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I guess there is one refreshing thing about this thread.

It's not Joshua's fault anymore! Now people are grasping for some other straw to blame their inability to take what they dished out on.

Eh, I will go back to doing something productive (preparing for a Boobiethon event tomorrow night in SL, which should be fun), but I will leave you all with another smexy pulp cover.

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Old 10-06-2009, 09:25 PM   #218 (permalink)
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I am so sick of this Fmeh Avatar thread.

Fmeh can come around with a RL naked Avatar for all I care.

If anyone knew the drama that would have ensued no one would have touched that thread (this thread now? seems like) with a 10 foot pole.

Get Over it already.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:44 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camille Serpentine View Post
Actually this is the first site I've really seen it in action.
The only other one I saw it on was a forum with at most 20 members.

Keep in mind this is my opinion of this site. I have not said I don't like SLU, I have just stated how it seems to me.

I don't think people are in the background negotiating how to handle each poster. I do think, however, there is a certain mindset when it comes to reacting to certain posters. A sort of free for all of "Let's see who can drive their theory/story/etc. into the ground first because we don't like their spelling or behavior."
I do agree that some posters have come here with false stories - the kid in the apt block who probably got his mom banned from SL - things like that. But the majority is more like a flock of seagulls going after a lone french fry on the ground.
I think you missed my point, which is probably due to me being a bit oblique about it.

My point was that what you were describing ("All these arguments still lead me to believe this is more of a group based site with certain norms decided upon by a loud minority") seems to be standard for most communities, online or not. People will find a place that seems to fit them and invest time in it. In doing so, they generally agree with the unstated rules of behavior for that group. If they had major disagreements with these norms, they probably would either leave or modify their behavior. A core group of people who invest time into the group will develop and get to know each other. Friendships form, which factor into subsequent interactions. New people are blank slates and thus viewed a bit coolly until they are better known. If they run aground of the societal expectations, they will face grief.

As for a "certain mindset when it comes to reacting to certain posters", this seems to suggest collusion, which I don't see. I do, however, see friends supporting friends versus people they don't know, friends giving friends the benefit of the doubt that is not extended to others, and a loose code of behavior that allows for some hard poking.

And I'm not suggesting you dislike SLU. TBH, I don't know anything about you. I haven't even read some of your replies here all that thoroughly - nothing against you; it's just been a tremendously crappy day. And if you did dislike SLU, ok. That's your choice. No forum is right for everyone. For example, the LL forum gives me hives and a strong desire to run naked down its threads, whacking various established posters with a whiffle bat. That is not a huge indictment against me or the LL forums. It's just a bad fit.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:46 PM   #220 (permalink)
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I think you missed my point, which is probably due to me being a bit oblique about it.

My point was that what you were describing ("All these arguments still lead me to believe this is more of a group based site with certain norms decided upon by a loud minority") seems to be standard for most communities, online or not. People will find a place that seems to fit them and invest time in it. In doing so, they generally agree with the unstated rules of behavior for that group. If they had major disagreements with these norms, they probably would either leave or modify their behavior. A core group of people who invest time into the group will develop and get to know each other. Friendships form, which factor into subsequent interactions. New people are blank slates and thus viewed a bit coolly until they are better known. If they run aground of the societal expectations, they will face grief.

As for a "certain mindset when it comes to reacting to certain posters", this seems to suggest collusion, which I don't see. I do, however, see friends supporting friends versus people they don't know, friends giving friends the benefit of the doubt that is not extended to others, and a loose code of behavior that allows for some hard poking.

And I'm not suggesting you dislike SLU. TBH, I don't know anything about you. I haven't even read some of your replies here all that thoroughly - nothing against you; it's just been a tremendously crappy day. And if you did dislike SLU, ok. That's your choice. No forum is right for everyone. For example, the LL forum gives me hives and a strong desire to run naked down its threads, whacking various established posters with a whiffle bat. That is not a huge indictment against me or the LL forums. It's just a bad fit.
Let me put it in a simpler way.
Given the number of people who have gone out of their way on this thread to tell me my opinion is wrong, I still conclude the same thing.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:53 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:55 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Let me put it in a simpler way.
Given the number of people who have gone out of their way on this thread to tell me my opinion is wrong, I still conclude the same thing.
Ok, but that doesn't tell me much. This is the internet: perhaps you are completely nuts. Maybe you dress up your cat in fantasy outfits and do unspeakable things with cephalopods. Even assuming none of that is true (although I will still be keeping an eye on you /suspicious glance), maybe it just comes down to a lack of any objective answer to most of this. A lot of it is about perceptions, and most of those turn on the fit between person and forum. Or person and cephalopod if that is how you like things....

The actual point: Our perceptions differ, but who cares? I agree with Cristiano about trying to limit the perceived piling on. Aside from that, the rest - including my contribution - is squabbles.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:57 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Quote:
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All these arguments still lead me to believe this is more of a group based site with certain norms decided upon by a loud minority.
So. You really are incapable of being convinced of anything other than your predisposition? Seems to me there have been quite a number of reasoned, respectful, explanatory posts that might suggest an alternative viewpoint. But you remain convinced - nay, entrenched - in your original opinion.

That's as may be. But as an old high school marching band geek, I am reminded of an old joke:

Mom and Dad watch proudly as the high school band marches by in the Fourth of July parade. The mother beams, her smile wide as her face, and turns to the father and says:

"Oh dear! Look honey! Everyone is out of step except our son!"

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Old 10-06-2009, 10:03 PM   #224 (permalink)
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So. You really are incapable of being convinced of anything other than your predisposition? Seems to me there have been quite a number of reasoned, respectful, explanatory posts that might suggest an alternative viewpoint. But you remain convinced - nay, entrenched - in your original opinion.

That's as may be. But as an old high school marching band geek, I am reminded of an old joke:

Mom and Dad watch proudly as the high school band marches by in the Fourth of July parade. The mother beams, her smile wide as her face, and turns to the father and says:

"Oh dear! Look honey! Everyone is out of step except our son!"
Yes there have been some thoughtful well written replies. Some agreeing with me, some not, and some partially. I have made comments on those.

So your reasoning is that I should just not do anything but post in agreement to the majority so that every thing happy and perfect in this little world?
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:10 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Yes there have been some thoughtful well written replies. Some agreeing with me, some not, and some partially. I have made comments on those.
It was the unfounded allegation of tentacle sex that killed any comment about my previous post, wasn't it? Now that is something I can firmly blame on SLU and its corrupting influence.
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