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Steve Mahfouz · 10-25-2007, 05:04 PM

http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts10252007.html

*snip*
Now the Bush administration wants to take away the American people's freedom to travel within their own country by airplane. Not content with an 80,000 "no fly" list, a subset of a 500,000-750,000 "watch list," the Bush administration's Transport Security Administration has proposed new rules that will require Americans to get government permission 72 hours in advance prior to being allowed to board a domestic flight.

The TSA justifies this extraordinary violation of our constitutional rights on the grounds that 90 to 93 percent of all travel reservations are final by then.

So what?!

And what of the 7 to 10 percent of flights that the TSA estimates are not on the books 72 hours in advance? These are family emergencies and critical business deals. What does the TSA care if a member of your family dies while you await the government's permission to fly?

*snip*

I'm looking for the original proposal by the TSA.

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers...ght/index.shtm

it *might* be buried in the proposal above.

Sooz Pascale · 10-25-2007, 05:09 PM

THAT particular idea will never get past the courts...period.

Sooz

Steve Mahfouz · 10-25-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

THAT particular idea will never get past the courts...period.

Sooz

Ok, I found out it is called APIS ( Advance Passenger Information System) and it is contained within the Secure Flight Plan I linked above.

Squeedoo S · 10-25-2007, 05:42 PM

What. the. hell?

Okay okay, I think it's time for the US to step back and take a nice non 9/11 tinted breather. Shit, in more random news, I heard some person compare Halloween pranks to 9/11. Talk about Godwin Law. More like Osama's Law. Anyways, I agree with Soozie, this shit won't...er...fly with the courts.

Rose Karuna · 10-25-2007, 05:46 PM

Wow - this is insane. Time to let our legislators know what we think of this idea.

Sooz Pascale · 10-25-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeedoo S

What. the. hell?

Okay okay, I think it's time for the US to step back and take a nice non 9/11 tinted breather. Shit, in more random news, I heard some person compare Halloween pranks to 9/11. Talk about Godwin Law. More like Osama's Law. Anyways, I agree with Soozie, this shit won't...er...fly with the courts.

Yeh, I really won't get too worked up over it. It will never survive a court challenge...period. This is just more power grabbing stupidity, but it will be unsuccesful. The big question I have is what kind of an imbecile in the government would even THINK they could actually get away with this one. The general public can be stupid and uninformed at times but this won'..fly.

Sooz

Steve Mahfouz · 10-25-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

Yeh, I really won't get too worked up over it. It will never survive a court challenge...period. This is just more power grabbing stupidity, but it will be unsuccesful. The big question I have is what kind of an imbecile in the government would even THINK they could actually get away with this one. The general public can be stupid and uninformed at times but this won'..fly.

Sooz

I agree. Another more informative article here:
http://www.management.travel/news.ph...ight.Oct-07.11

Aimee Weber · 10-25-2007, 06:21 PM

I cannot imagine how they could generate a list of suspects so large as 500,000-750,000 people without using a criteria that's unconstitutional and abhorrent ... for example "Muslim" or "Arab." This is WAY out of control.

Tyche Shepherd · 10-25-2007, 06:34 PM

The proposal is not for US Domestic flights , APIS covers Flights in and out of US borders - not within US Borders - Currently the Airline flying into or leaving the US has to notify US Customs and Border control around the time take off .

I'd guess its therefore more likely to go ahead

EDIT ... by notify I meant pass on the passanger list

EDIT 2

Sorry ... its also flights within the US - ignore my ravings

Aimee Weber · 10-25-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyche Shepherd

The proposal is not for US Domestic flights , APIS covers Flights in and out of US borders - not within US Borders - Currently the Airline flying into or leaving the US has to notify US Customs and Border control around the time take off .

I'd guess its therefore more likely to go ahead

EDIT ... by notify I meant pass on the passanger list

AAAH Ok. That's a bit less shocking.

Mukatsuku · 10-26-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimee Weber

I cannot imagine how they could generate a list of suspects so large as 500,000-750,000 people without using a criteria that's unconstitutional and abhorrent ... for example "Muslim" or "Arab." This is WAY out of control.

This one already mentions Islam in association to terrorism
House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill

While Islamic people have been responsible for terrorism to the US, so have non-Islamic people and there are millions of other Islamic people who are against terrorism.

Should they be allowed to specify that people with Islam experience know more about terrorism? I can see both sides and will be uncomfortable in the middle.

prinţesă nină · 10-26-2007, 09:14 AM

and americans will grudgingly comply, queuing up for 3 hours with their cute little ziplock take-on bags

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mahfouz

http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts10252007.html

*snip*
Now the Bush administration wants to take away the American people's freedom to travel within their own country by airplane. Not content with an 80,000 "no fly" list, a subset of a 500,000-750,000 "watch list," the Bush administration's Transport Security Administration has proposed new rules that will require Americans to get government permission 72 hours in advance prior to being allowed to board a domestic flight.

The TSA justifies this extraordinary violation of our constitutional rights on the grounds that 90 to 93 percent of all travel reservations are final by then.

So what?!

And what of the 7 to 10 percent of flights that the TSA estimates are not on the books 72 hours in advance? These are family emergencies and critical business deals. What does the TSA care if a member of your family dies while you await the government's permission to fly?

*snip*

I'm looking for the original proposal by the TSA.

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers...ght/index.shtm

it *might* be buried in the proposal above.

Mukatsuku · 10-26-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinţesă nină

and americans will grudgingly comply, queuing up for 3 hours with their cute little ziplock take-on bags

Most countries do comply, though this law is certainly one of the most strict I have heard of and I can't think of a logical reason for it unless they are admitting they aren't able to secure airlines in a short time, which is scary because terrorists normally plan for longer than 72 hours but the warning can come much quicker.

10-25-2007, 05:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Steve Mahfouz Senior Member Perpetually in Awe Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: near Walt Disney World Posts: 982 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: 9-30-2005 Blog Entries: 4	"..government permission 72 hours in advance prior to being allowed to (fly).." http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts10252007.html snip Now the Bush administration wants to take away the American people's freedom to travel within their own country by airplane. Not content with an 80,000 "no fly" list, a subset of a 500,000-750,000 "watch list," the Bush administration's Transport Security Administration has proposed new rules that will require Americans to get government permission 72 hours in advance prior to being allowed to board a domestic flight. The TSA justifies this extraordinary violation of our constitutional rights on the grounds that 90 to 93 percent of all travel reservations are final by then. So what?! And what of the 7 to 10 percent of flights that the TSA estimates are not on the books 72 hours in advance? These are family emergencies and critical business deals. What does the TSA care if a member of your family dies while you await the government's permission to fly? snip I'm looking for the original proposal by the TSA. http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers...ght/index.shtm it might be buried in the proposal above. __________________ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ecstasy/128/128/22 Ecstasy: high quality residential living Last edited by Steve Mahfouz; 10-25-2007 at 05:11 PM.

10-25-2007, 05:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sooz Pascale Long Distance Sailor Ribald Lewdness Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,751 My Mood: SL Join Date: January 27, 2007	THAT particular idea will never get past the courts...period. Sooz __________________ Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

10-25-2007, 05:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Squeedoo S And Now Presenting, Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brooklyn, USA Posts: 1,520 My Mood:	What. the. hell? Okay okay, I think it's time for the US to step back and take a nice non 9/11 tinted breather. Shit, in more random news, I heard some person compare Halloween pranks to 9/11. Talk about Godwin Law. More like Osama's Law. Anyways, I agree with Soozie, this shit won't...er...fly with the courts. __________________ "Happiness never killed anyone, but you can die from being too uptight..." -- a song by Wai Lana (Ohgodiwanttohavethiswoman'sbabies... D: )

10-25-2007, 05:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rose Karuna Flori..duh Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 45 My Mood:	Wow - this is insane. Time to let our legislators know what we think of this idea. __________________ I like Florida. Everything is in the 80's. The temperatures, the ages and the IQ's. ~ George Carlin

10-25-2007, 06:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tyche Shepherd Fortuna vitrea est enjoying the victor's spoils Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 5,470 My Mood: SL Join Date: 26th April 2007 Awards: 1	The proposal is not for US Domestic flights , APIS covers Flights in and out of US borders - not within US Borders - Currently the Airline flying into or leaving the US has to notify US Customs and Border control around the time take off . I'd guess its therefore more likely to go ahead EDIT ... by notify I meant pass on the passanger list EDIT 2 Sorry ... its also flights within the US - ignore my ravings Last edited by Tyche Shepherd; 10-25-2007 at 06:39 PM.

10-25-2007, 06:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Aimee Weber Queen of the Metaverse Edit Status Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,265 My Mood:	I cannot imagine how they could generate a list of suspects so large as 500,000-750,000 people without using a criteria that's unconstitutional and abhorrent ... for example "Muslim" or "Arab." This is WAY out of control.

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