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Old 02-10-2018, 12:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Who Deserves To Be Social?

Just thinking, really. Given how rarely I tend to get along with anyone, I read and watch things to make sense of it all.

There are a lot of help articles about removing toxic people from your life. If enough people were to really take such advice, I imagine there's a contingency of very lonely toxic people. They're in a position where they have to fix themselves to earn the privilege of mutual support.

I've been watching one video a lot, almost daily, for over a month. Some of the comments point out that "depression guy" is being quite sensible. In a way, I guess I can't argue. You can't just show up with all your issues and expect anyone to tolerate you. Imagine a person who only ever shows up to burden everyone around them. Imagine being that person.

Is someone like that really entitled to be around people? How much does someone have to fix their self so the people around them won't have to put up with too much?

..The video.. "Depression Guy" starts @ 6:39
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Trying to fix yourself by posting on forums and watching Youtube videos only leads to madness. Seek. Real. Help.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Immy, a lot of people on SLU wish you well and want you to get better. But that doesn't mean we appreciate you abusing the forums in this way.

Stop throwing up on us. Your illness is not a spectator sport.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Seek. Real. Help.
^ THIS.

Immy, I like you and I also wish you to get better. Simply, because I was there myself, kind of. But Free is right: Do seek professional help. It'll be good for you, believe me.

Take me for example: I've been suffering from recurrent depressions since my youth. I even was suicidal quite a few times, but I survived all that shit, without even bothering to seek help or mentioning my burdensome thoughts to anyone.
But eventually I DID seek professional help a couple years ago when I was in a suicidal mood again. I called the local psychiatric emergency number - and after that long-ish phone-call, I admitted myself to the nearest hospital where I stayed for a couple months. After these, I went through about a year of rehab, had lots of psychotherapy hours after that, and I have to take antidepressants at least for the next couple years -- but BECAUSE I did accept that I needed professional help and had all these people help me, and BECAUSE of these prescription meds I'm now taking, I'm finally stable again. I am again able to enjoy the good things in life (even though my healing is still going on).

Yes I know, your health system is shit. And hospital stay, rehab, therapy, and meds (which ever would apply) does cost a lot where you live. That said: If your body were ill, you'd spend all you could afford to become healthy again - so what's hindering you to do the same for your soul?
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There are also a number of threads dealing with depression on SLU. I think it might be more appreciated if you contributed to those rather than making your own. Or even the "nobody cares" thread.

I think you are far from being the only SLU member who deals with depression, anxiety, or other psychological issues. Everybody deals with it differently.

But shoving into people's face like this is probably not the best way of getting sympathy, support or even attention. We've seen it too often from you.

A lot - a WHOLE lot of people have offered their good wishes to you, suggested you got help, but it is not too surprising that people's patience is growing thin.

Once again, get help from professionals. They may also tell you that pouring out your troubles on an Internet forum might not be the ideal way of doing so.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm confused.

About me. I go to therapy every 4 weeks and have plenty of pills.

About the topic. Is there a place for toxic people when everyone inevitably leaves them behind?
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
I'm confused.

About me. I go to therapy every 4 weeks and have plenty of pills.

About the topic. Is there a place for toxic people when everyone inevitably leaves them behind?
Well that's really up to the toxic person.

I mean, if they stay in the lives of those that they're draining (because, be honest, they are VERY draining to deal with), more than likely the people in their lives would be pushed to toxic behaviors to cope. Hell, now you have two or more toxic people all trying to survive while tearing each other down in the process. I mean, is that....better than telling that toxic person to get their shit together (lovingly, of course), and stop pushing other people to be their enablers?

Meh.

My real question is why would you make a thread that smells very "whataboutthe"-ish about people who knowingly or unknowingly constantly drag others down because they don't want to be alone or just want an emotional and psychological punching bag?
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey, Immy, here's a thought. Know why there are so many books and such about how to get toxic people out of our lives?

Maybe it's because we're all at least a little toxic at times, so we all have toxic people in our lives.

Seems like there are lots of places for toxic people.

(Honestly, I'm not even super-clear on how to define a "toxic" person -- I think it might be one of those "things that everybody knows" until you get them to try to define it precisely, then nobody knows. If I choose to see myself as the source of my experience, then how can someone be "toxic?")
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Not sure how to define it, I guess. Can't say I was completely aware of the term until getting into Overwatch. Until then, it was far more ambiguous, if that's the right word. Things like 'toxic', 'tilted', and 'carry' are a bit new to me.

Some of my wonder came from an OW match from last night. A couple guys on voice were absolute jerks. Everything was everyone else's fault. If they weren't just trolling, I wonder how long they keep that attitude up. I'm thinking about how I screw up a shield placement. The other guy goes on a rant about how 'autistic' the healer is because he died in a 1v4 suicide run while the healer was still waiting to re-spawn.

In spite of this, he seems to have friends. So, it's okay for him to be social. I don't know how to make sense of this.
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
Not sure how to define it, I guess. Can't say I was completely aware of the term until getting into Overwatch. Until then, it was far more ambiguous, if that's the right word. Things like 'toxic', 'tilted', and 'carry' are a bit new to me.

Some of my wonder came from an OW match from last night. A couple guys on voice were absolute jerks. Everything was everyone else's fault. If they weren't just trolling, I wonder how long they keep that attitude up. I'm thinking about how I screw up a shield placement. The other guy goes on a rant about how 'autistic' the healer is because he died in a 1v4 suicide run while the healer was still waiting to re-spawn.
I think Overwatch is kind of its own beast. Some people get mad if you legit screw up on purpose almost on the same level when you just sort of didn't quite do things right.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
Some of my wonder came from an OW match from last night. A couple guys on voice were absolute jerks. Everything was everyone else's fault. If they weren't just trolling, I wonder how long they keep that attitude up. I'm thinking about how I screw up a shield placement. The other guy goes on a rant about how 'autistic' the healer is because he died in a 1v4 suicide run while the healer was still waiting to re-spawn.

In spite of this, he seems to have friends. So, it's okay for him to be social. I don't know how to make sense of this.
These people most likely lead sad lives without true fullfilling relationships with people and put on a front.

They act like that 'cuz they're dead inside and know it but can't admit it.

"I suck but I can't admit that so I'm going to lash out at the world and project my own insecurity onto others."

People act like they're the straight man, when most are actually the buffoon in the Abbott & Costello routine of life and from my exp 99% can't accept that.

And if you are going to play team games, try to find like minded "it's not ok to be a shitbag" kinds of players and try to form teams with them, it really helps cut out a LOT of bullshit like this.

Or do like me and avoid team games like the fuckn plague.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Also note that a nice chunk of people don't play games 'cuz they like playing games for fun, they play to win because why have fun when you can win and feel superior over others.

these people are the ultimate in fucking loser and ruin everything.

Take my bro for example, played video games for well over 20 years with him, and 90% of the times he'd whoop me in them.

The very moment I did better than him or won more than once, he'd IMMEDIATELY want to play something else but if he was winning he'd play alllllllll day.

Egos, it's mainly ego bullshit.

Many people will put up with toxic shitheads if it means they get to win, I absolutely refuse to.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This is why I leave voice chat off in Overwatch, unless I know the people on my team. It's also why I pretty much never play Competitive. People take it WAY too seriously.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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"Deserves" is a bullshit concept to begin with, a meaningless question, with the prior assumption that some vague, nameless someone has the right to judge and handout permissions for people to be social. It's just not relevant to anything.

The OP reeks of the self-flaggelation that Immy constantly seeks. "Do I deserve to have friends" or "am I burden on my friends" has been a never-ending theme for YEARS. This is just more hamster-wheel squeaking, not a true conversation.

It's also usually a bellweather of emotional storms to come. That's never a good sign.

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Old 02-10-2018, 05:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Wtf? yourself, Darnk. It's not like we haven't gone through this same useless, helpless cycle dozens of times before. It's very difficult being the audience to Immy's breakdowns. I hate it. Just hate it. It's like the SLU version of Groundhog Day.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
Some of my wonder came from an OW match from last night. A couple guys on voice were absolute jerks. Everything was everyone else's fault. If they weren't just trolling, I wonder how long they keep that attitude up. I'm thinking about how I screw up a shield placement. The other guy goes on a rant about how 'autistic' the healer is because he died in a 1v4 suicide run while the healer was still waiting to re-spawn.

In spite of this, he seems to have friends. So, it's okay for him to be social. I don't know how to make sense of this.
Most likely, they became friends in a different context; either that, or their friendship is based upon a mutual hobby of putting down other people for fun. Don't envy those choads; and don't be mystified that they find each other and band together. That's just how bacteria colonies work.

There are people and cliques like that in every MMO, along with a verbally-offensive arms race that results in things like "autism" being used as a slur to put down other people. It's what stops me from playing or even trying MMOs that I think I might otherwise enjoy; and in the ones I do play, it usually stops me from joining groups and doing the multiplayer stuff. It's not the people who are toxic - I tend to believe there's no really such a thing as "toxic people". Rather, there are toxic behaviors, and toxic environments, and people can choose to engage and thrive in those things, but they can also choose to stop, or not join in.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Maybe we should address what makes a person "toxic". I think a lot of it is an inability to focus on the needs and concerns of others. If I can't be a friend to others then others will have no reason to be a friend to me.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If you're worried about being too toxic for people to tolerate, make sure you have someone more toxic than you around to make you look better by comparison.

Seriously though, if you're worried about being toxic, ask the people you trust (if there are any) to openly call you on it as it happens. Have them use a safe-word if they don't like being that candid. Caught up in the moment, it's easy for anyone to forget to check how they're affecting the people around them. When called on it, don't argue, even if you think you're right, just apologize and change the subject to something safer.

And when it comes to other hostile, toxic, brow-beating, or belittling behavior in other people, remember that the thing they're currently harping on is -rarely- almost never the thing that's really bothering them. It's merely an opportunity to spew pent up bile that they've been carrying around from some other source, likely something that has nothing at all to do with you.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Also note that a nice chunk of people don't play games 'cuz they like playing games for fun, they play to win because why have fun when you can win and feel superior over others.

these people are the ultimate in fucking loser and ruin everything.

Take my bro for example, played video games for well over 20 years with him, and 90% of the times he'd whoop me in them.

The very moment I did better than him or won more than once, he'd IMMEDIATELY want to play something else but if he was winning he'd play alllllllll day.

Egos, it's mainly ego bullshit.

Many people will put up with toxic shitheads if it means they get to win, I absolutely refuse to.
Hadn't thought about that. I do play comp because I find more people are trying to win. But one could consider that there are whose who want to win for winning's sake because win. My mind goes back to watching Karate Kid and that Cobra Dojo. I didn't think that mindset could be real. Like, their only reason for maintaining each other's company was simply a matter of leverage. Mutual parasitic dependence. Symbiosis' evil step sibling.

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If you're worried about being too toxic for people to tolerate, make sure you have someone more toxic than you around to make you look better by comparison.

Seriously though, if you're worried about being toxic, ask the people you trust (if there are any) to openly call you on it as it happens. Have them use a safe-word if they don't like being that candid. Caught up in the moment, it's easy for anyone to forget to check how they're affecting the people around them. When called on it, don't argue, even if you think you're right, just apologize and change the subject to something safer.

And when it comes to other hostile, toxic, brow-beating, or belittling behavior in other people, remember that the thing they're currently harping on is -rarely- almost never the thing that's really bothering them. It's merely an opportunity to spew pent up bile that they've been carrying around from some other source, likely something that has nothing at all to do with you.
Afraid I tend to use awkward silence as my 'safe-word' in this regard. Something for me to think about.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Afraid I tend to use awkward silence as my 'safe-word' in this regard. Something for me to think about.
A lot of toxic people won't even recognize that they've created an awkward silence and they'll just keep going and going... so take heart in knowing that you're much closer to the middle of the bell curve than they are.
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