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Old 11-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Japanese-Themed Hosoi Ichiba Sims Leave SL for Kitely

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Hosoi Ichiba, a Japanese-themed SL market which supported six very beautiful sims, has entirely left Second Life, moving to the OpenSim-based Kitely. The sims had attracted a community of some 150-200 SLers, owner Amiryu Hosoi tells me, "All very active in samurai, geisha and villagers roles", but the collapsing real world economy made it difficult for Hosoi to maintain those islands.

During its heyday, he says, "There were months Hosoi Ichiba earned about $4000 USD/month and every dime flooded back in the project... I had 5 people working for me assisting customers and helping them find what they needed." Then the bottom started to fall out...
"

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New World Notes: Japanese-Themed Hosoi Ichiba Sims Leave SL for Kitely
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ilan, you may want to search SLU archives for Hosoi Ichiba and Amiryu Hosoi. Just an idea.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi Soen,

I haven't read everything but from what I have it seems that people are mad at her because she wanted to have a lot of regions and repeatedly stated she was going to remove her build from SL because she could no longer cover the land maintenance costs from her SLM store sales. That's a legitimate desire and a legitimate reason to stop paying LL their ridiculously high rates for land ownership.

I can't comment on her past statements but she has definitely been spending a lot of time in Kitely. Originally getting a 1-region world and recently another 16-region one. See her worlds here

Amiryu has also started listing her items in Kitely Market and has already sold hundreds of dollars worth of Japanese themed items. See her store here

Having chatted with her inworld multiple times I'm not sure I understand why there is so much hostility in SLU towards her. She repeatedly said she was moving shop and now she has. New World Notes wrote about it and I mentioned it in the Kitely forum in SLU. Not exactly a reason for scorn IMO.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ilan Tochner View Post
Having chatted with her inworld multiple times I'm not sure I understand why there is so much hostility in SLU towards her. She repeatedly said she was moving shop and now she has. New World Notes wrote about it and I mentioned it in the Kitely forum in SLU. Not exactly a reason for scorn IMO.
Fair enough, and I wasn't trying to influence you one way or another as I can see both sides. Just giving you a heads up that there is some history you might want to make yourself aware of.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi Soen,

I haven't read everything but from what I have it seems that people are mad at her because she wanted to have a lot of regions and repeatedly stated she was going to remove her build from SL because she could no longer cover the land maintenance costs from her SLM store sales. That's a legitimate desire and a legitimate reason to stop paying LL their ridiculously high rates for land ownership. I'm not sure I understand why there is so much hostility in SLU towards her. She repeatedly said she was moving shop and now she has. New World Notes wrote about it and I mentioned it in the Kitely forum in SLU. Not exactly a reason for scorn IMO.
Nah, that's not why.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Nah, that's not why.
Then why Darnk?
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Then why Darnk?
Self pity, woe is me, products at ridiculous price for what they are, the fact that she's a walking advertisement,advertising in the wrong forums, holier than tho attitude, flat cows, crying that her sky is falling over and over, flouncing and not sticking to it.

yadda yadda yadda.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Can we ban Hamlet for outing Amiryu's RL gender?
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Self pity, woe is me, products at ridiculous price for what they are, the fact that she's a walking advertisement,advertising in the wrong forums, holier than tho attitude, flat cows, crying that her sky is falling over and over, flouncing and not sticking to it.
That's is certainly a long list.

All I can say is that the impression I've gotten from her so far in the Kitely forums and inworld meetings was quite different. She was nice and supportive of other people. People also act friendly to her when she attends the weekly mentors group meetings ("office hours" in SL parlance) so it can't be just my personal impression.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi Soen,

I haven't read everything but from what I have it seems that people are mad at her because she wanted to have a lot of regions and repeatedly stated she was going to remove her build from SL because she could no longer cover the land maintenance costs from her SLM store sales. That's a legitimate desire and a legitimate reason to stop paying LL their ridiculously high rates for land ownership.

I can't comment on her past statements but she has definitely been spending a lot of time in Kitely. Originally getting a 1-region world and recently another 16-region one. See her worlds here

Amiryu has also started listing her items in Kitely Market and has already sold hundreds of dollars worth of Japanese themed items. See her store here

Having chatted with her inworld multiple times I'm not sure I understand why there is so much hostility in SLU towards her. She repeatedly said she was moving shop and now she has. New World Notes wrote about it and I mentioned it in the Kitely forum in SLU. Not exactly a reason for scorn IMO.
Apparently you don't read the threads that you and her have posted in here at SLU. Pity you seem to have blinders on and Mr Magooitis

With all the direct links to kitely pages in your posts, this has become an advertising forum and not a discussion forum.

Of course she's going to be nice as all y'all aren't aware of her history and are new wallets to plunder with 2008 goodies.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi Caete,

I linked to Amiryu's store and worlds inside our grid to show that she wasn't just crying wolf. I changed the link text to "here" instead of the label I got when copying the link specifically so it won't mention our grid name or the web page title.

Almost all the people who use Kitely have spent years as SL residents (some of them still are) and many of the people I talked to quite liked her build in SL. She is also selling well in our marketplace so it seems that quite a few people still see a lot of value in her content.

I wanted to paste a link here to demonstrate what I've just said but I held back just so you wouldn't blame me for linking...

Last edited by Ilan Tochner; 11-08-2013 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I need to reply here because I feel some people in this forum are behaving very unsportive and unfair. Especially because some of the people here are just parroting what other people want you to believe without even knowing what this is all about.

Let me try to explain in a few short sentences. I am the owner of Hosoi Ichiba. I build Japanese themed buildings, decoration and scenery. To be able to offer high quality, detailed products I am doing a lot of research before I start building and make my textures by hand. Building this way is going to cost you a lot of time and effort. This time and effort translates ino the, for some people, high price tag I need to put on my products. Besides that, I want my products to be exclusive. My marketing strategy is to create an exclusive niche market. Thus, my products are not available for everyone. Further, Hosoi Ichiba for me is a company and not a hobby project.

In the past Hosoi Ichiba earned a lot of money that flowed directly back in SL to keep my sims open and FREE for all people that were interested in Edo Japanese scenery and role play. Needless to tell you that a sim in SL is going to cost you 1000,- for setting up the sim and roughly 300,- per month per sim. Please do the math yourself. In Kitely I get 16 regions for under $100,- and 100.000 prims!

Beside the costs above running Hosoi Ichiba means a lot of other expenses. For instance, at some time I had 4 girls working for me and they all earned 10% of gross turnover. Meaning, when Hosoi Ichiba made a turnover of 250 K a week, Hosoi Ichiba payed 100K to personell that week. Now, please compare this to what other businesses in SL pay their workers. Again, I like to look at Hosoi Ichiba as a serious business and not a hobby.

Next point of discussion. At one time I joined some discusions about the SL market place and ways to improve it. In this discussions I stated that it would be a possible good idea to only make the marketplace exclusively for people that also were running an inworld store. My idea was to keep the marketplace free of clutter and low quality items and make sure to keep inworld traffic. People would visit the stores, generate traffic and communicate. Also, I tried to explain why marketplace accounts that are no longer active should be discontinued. I think people should be active community members to be able to sell on the marketplace. Now, this is where the hobbyists come into discussion. The hobbyists are trying to compare their SL activities, life and philosophy with a buisiness like Hosoi Ichiba. Needless to tell you such a comparisson does not hold.

Last point; I am living in the Netherlands and I can speak and write English but I am far from a native speaker. Thus, It can happen I transfer what I try to say into words the wrong way and maybe some people donít really Ďgetí what I try to tell. This is not an excuse but, we all know how forums work and a Ďsharpí reply is sometimes posted way to easy. I have also sometimes been guilty of that practice. Especially when some people in SLU were bashing me around for no reason again I occasionally lost my temper a bit. Does this provide a reason to start using bad language and call people names? I dontít think so!

Okay, resume;
I build, what I would call high quality products and scenery. I love to make money and most of it will be put right back into the community. I would love to keep market places clean from low quality products and inactive merchants. I think it is very important to keep inworld stores and give people a chance meet new people and communities and travel unknown places. Does that make me a bad person?

SL canít provide me the quality and space it once did so I took the decision to move to Kitely. I just started building on a 16 region scenery project that will be even better then the Ďoldí environment I had in SL. This scenery will again act as my demo location and be free for anyone to enjoy or live in! 300 of my 1200 products are now for sale on Kitely with full export permissions. All pricing on items on SL and Kitely market have been cut in half. Once my complete collection is moved to Kitely I will close all SL accounts and delete all my products.

Last; there is a very small group of people on SLU that have a very hostile attitude agains people they are not agreeing with. I often think this is the only reason why those people hang around in forums like SLU. I have been away for some time from SLU and it makes me very sad to see nothing has changed. The same small group of people are still bashing around other people. Why? I canít tell and frankly I donít care anymore and wish you al the best.

This post is for friendly people like Ilan.

Ami
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Amiryu.. I hope kitely explained full export to you..
it seems to mean your stuff will then be full perm for anyone to do anything with...

someone correct me if I am wrong...
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Okay, resume;
I build, what I would call high quality products and scenery.

Ami
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep, open up to the world and I trust people will play an honest game.

Ami

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Old 11-09-2013, 09:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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well good luck to you with that...
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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This is the place with those cardboard cutout monkey photographs, no? (o.o)
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Amiryu.. I hope kitely explained full export to you..
it seems to mean your stuff will then be full perm for anyone to do anything with...

someone correct me if I am wrong...
Hi eku, you're wrong

We don't require merchants to agree to make their items full perm in order to enable them to make those items exportable. You can, for example, make them Copy+Modify+Export (no-Transfer) like Amiryu has done with her listed items.

This is possible because the way the export controls are implemented in Kitely is different from the way export controls are implemented in the various viewers that are now adding that functionality.

You can read more about that here: Export Permission Implemented | Kitely Blog
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Hi Soen,

I haven't read everything but from what I have it seems that people are mad at her because she wanted to have a lot of regions and repeatedly stated she was going to remove her build from SL because she could no longer cover the land maintenance costs from her SLM store sales. That's a legitimate desire and a legitimate reason to stop paying LL their ridiculously high rates for land ownership.
No, it really isn't a legitimate desire. "Wanted to have a lot of regions"? Pfft. Why? If you can't support it from income, then it's clearly an unrealistic desire, and certainly not "legitimate". That's like saying "well I'd like a large house and a new BMW but my job only pays minimum wage; I'll go and get them anyway and cry about how unfair it is when the bank repossesses them both!"

And her stuff on the SL marketplace? Not that good, and certainly not good enough to justify the grotesquely overinflated prices she was charging (which were something like 500-1000% above market price for similar items from other merchants, IIRC).
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Hi Vivienne,

I'm sorry but the desire is legitimate and when people want to have a lot of land in RL and be able to afford it from the money they make in their job they usually relocate to less expensive parts of the country where they can get more land for less money.

This is exactly what Amiryu did, she moved from SL to Kitely where land costs less.

As for the price of her items, that's up to the market to decide. An item is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. If she previously had the amount of business she said she did then there were obviously quite a lot of people who were willing to pay her prices.

A lot of merchants are hurting in SL now even those that sell items for a lot less money. So the fact that Amiryu was hurting as well wasn't necessarily due to the amount of money she charges for what she sells. In any case there are still people willing to pay her those prices, there are just less of them than there used to be.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Hi Vivienne,

I'm sorry but the desire is legitimate and when people want to have a lot of land in RL and be able to afford it from the money they make in their job they usually relocate to less expensive parts of the country where they can get more land for less money.

This is exactly what Amiryu did, she moved from SL to Kitely where land costs less.

As for the price of her items, that's up to the market to decide. An item is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. If she previously had the amount of business she said she did then there were obviously quite a lot of people who were willing to pay her prices.

A lot of merchants are hurting in SL now even those that sell items for a lot less money. So the fact that Amiryu was hurting as well wasn't necessarily due to the amount of money she charges for what she sells. In any case there are still people willing to pay her those prices, there are just less of them than there used to be.
Actually, they usually don't; most people aren't going to relocate themselves to somewhere far away from everyone they know, their friends and family, to indulge some desire to own more land (and this isn't a common desire among most people, anyway). And wanting more than you can afford and acting as though being unable to afford it is anyone's fault but your own is not only not legitimate, it's rather ridiculous.

And the problem of the SL economy in a nutshell: too many merchants chasing after the same limited pool of customers; if there are fewer people willing to pay for what she's selling it probably has more to do with the fact that she's not, as far as I can tell, released anything in mesh (which is more efficient, lower land impact, and increasingly a standard for SL content; more and more people are just not even bothering to look at non-mesh content anymore). Unrealistic expectations combined with a failure to adapt to changing market conditions don't add up to anything I can feel much sympathy for, really.
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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...

A lot of merchants are hurting in SL now even those that sell items for a lot less money. So the fact that Amiryu was hurting as well wasn't necessarily due to the amount of money she charges for what she sells. In any case there are still people willing to pay her those prices, there are just less of them than there used to be.
I think the part you are missing in this particular case is that there are those in SL who avoid purchasing products or even stepping foot on Amiryu's sims for reasons that have nothing to do with the prices. I know, I'm one of them. I wouldn't even if it were free.

That's not the case for all merchants who are starting businesses on other grids, but I think you are arguing from a position of lack of information on this one.
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