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Sofia Westwick · 04-06-2008, 04:40 PM

Like I was told if you want LL to know your complaints make a ticket with summary as Supervisor Attention.

Then say our complaints about what's going on in the ticket

That's better then not saying anything to them.

according to the blog this is going to be happening for the next few weeks (or more knowing LL)
If they feel it was successful and not many people complain about it to them, they may do it all of the time during peak times.

As a cheap way to get around the "problem" instead of having to spend money to buy good equipment.

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

It's funny. There was that ONE TIME when they said they were going to restrict logins to payment-info-on-files only when things got too hot- and there was even one weekend when they experimented with it. But they sure as hell haven't messed with the floodgates since then.

I'm not the type to AR NPIOF traffic and camp bots but I sure as hell don't like the idea that I pay 2x my RL mortgage per month on SL and yet I have to vie for precious resources against freebie default avatars that don't even have people controlling them when the system gets overburdened.

(And yeah, I know all about their thin clients. Let me vent.)

I feel you...

but maybe if LL expanded their acceptable forms of payment to money orders (for those whose credit is afu) but not checks ( too many would bounce imho) or by wire payment via Western Union or something...I dunno, just a thought.

Rosie Barthelmess · 04-06-2008, 04:46 PM

When they made this "temporary" change a few days ago to test it out, it also meant I couldn't ADD people to any groups, as the people finder wouldn't finalize that little process.

Excellent.

Here's hoping they at least fixed THAT. sigh.

Jimmy Morane · 04-06-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnate Mars

Next they will disable teleporting to reduce load. Then inventories. Then chatting. Then movements.

It will be great when we can just all stand there and look straight head. Sl will be able to handle the load then!

You have a good point there. I think I now know why they made the new viewer mandatory....so we could have that perrty sunset to look at while we're standing there looking straight ahead

Cocoanut Koala · 04-06-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Westwick

Like I was told if you want LL to know your complaints make a ticket with summary as Supervisor Attention.

Then say our complaints about what's going on in the ticket

That's better then not saying anything to them.

according to the blog this is going to be happening for the next few weeks (or more knowing LL)
If they feel it was successful and not many people complain about it to them, they may do it all of the time during peak times.

As a cheap way to get around the "problem" instead of having to spend money to buy good equipment.

It is CRAZY!

From what I read on the SL forums, it sounded like buying more servers and more bandwidth would solve these problems!

If we are having these things happen - including taking away all these group things that businesses need - just so they don't have to buy enough servers or whatever - I mean, that is CRAZY!

What is crazy, if this is the case, is that we are still here!

It would be like (ya knows I loves me some analogies) going to a restaurant and ordering the steak dinner that comes with salad, and getting it without the salad.

Then they say, "I'm sorry, we don't want to spend the money for the lettuce right now, so salads are discontinued until we feel like buying lettuce. The price remains the same, though, salad or no salad."

(While, by the way, they are giving away the whole steak dinner to other people, and saying that since they don't mind no salad, we shouldn't!)

(And while, by the way, they are spending the money they get from us on painting a new mural in the kitchen, instead of buying the food we pay for!)

coco

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Morane

You have a good point there. I think I now know why they made the new viewer mandatory....so we could have that perrty sunset to look at while we're standing there looking straight ahead

well at least it IS a pretty sunset...

Siyu Suen · 04-06-2008, 05:31 PM

I wrote a Supervisor Attention ticket to this tune:

Quote:

Your recent action to limit the usability of profiles and group chat had better be very temporary. As a business owner, what if one of my products fails to deliver, as it almost certainly will due to the asset server issues recently? Without being able to load the profile of a customer, I am unable to provide customer service. Perhaps I could IM them in order to ask them to meet me at my store, so that I could drag the item directly to them? No, that option is not available either. In fact, my customers can't even reach me if they need my attention or have a failed delivery. This is all well and good if this period of non-function only lasts about an hour, or two hours. I am voicing my opinion now, however, to say that this is not going to be a good plan to fall back on any time that there are issues. As a content creator, I don't have to tell you that we are one of the reasons this world works, and why people come back and stay and deal with all of the shenanigans. And you are seriously decreasing our consumer confidence in you. By taking away our ability to communicate with our customers, through group AND IM, it seems like you're deliberately picking on us, almost. Please consider, instead of limiting profiles, limiting log-ins to premium accounts or payment info on file accounts. This would allow your actual customers, the people who have paid to use your service, access to a more stable grid when there are stability issues. Basic accounts without payment info tend to be camping bots, or people who have not been members long enough to have anything seriously invested in-world. Please consider this alternative to cutting the legs out from under content creators and other business people.

I suggest other folks do the same, let them know this makes us pissy

NeoBokrug Elytis · 04-06-2008, 05:51 PM

Allow me to play devils advocate.

I just logged on, and it might be a little bit late, but from what I can see the grid seems much more workable than the past few days.

I don't think it's fair to be angry at linden labs for disabling group and profile data being sent to the viewer. I think they've finally identified what is killing the grid the past few weekends. So now they're disabling it so the grid can remain up and workable (besides profile data and group data).

Now that it's identified as a problem, this gives them the opportunity to make improvements on groups (more of them perhaps?), and profiles. I think I can live without group data and profiles during peak hours, because if I anyone wants to talk to me, they know where to find me.

-Neo

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:
Your recent action to limit the usability of profiles and group chat had better be very temporary. As a business owner, what if one of my products fails to deliver, as it almost certainly will due to the asset server issues recently? Without being able to load the profile of a customer, I am unable to provide customer service. Perhaps I could IM them in order to ask them to meet me at my store, so that I could drag the item directly to them? No, that option is not available either. In fact, my customers can't even reach me if they need my attention or have a failed delivery. This is all well and good if this period of non-function only lasts about an hour, or two hours. I am voicing my opinion now, however, to say that this is not going to be a good plan to fall back on any time that there are issues. As a content creator, I don't have to tell you that we are one of the reasons this world works, and why people come back and stay and deal with all of the shenanigans. And you are seriously decreasing our consumer confidence in you. By taking away our ability to communicate with our customers, through group AND IM, it seems like you're deliberately picking on us, almost. Please consider, instead of limiting profiles, limiting log-ins to premium accounts or payment info on file accounts. This would allow your actual customers, the people who have paid to use your service, access to a more stable grid when there are stability issues. Basic accounts without payment info tend to be camping bots, or people who have not been members long enough to have anything seriously invested in-world. Please consider this alternative to cutting the legs out from under content creators and other business people.
I suggest other folks do the same, let them know this makes us pissy

Maybe so...but there ARE a few people out there who don't have payment info on file, but yet contribute something by working inworld to earn the L$ to buy the things content creators such as you, Siyu, create? as much as I'd love to see the bots gone, It would be a little unfair to those who can't have payment info on file due to credit or personal reasons.

Dnate Mars · 04-06-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis

Allow me to play devils advocate.

I just logged on, and it might be a little bit late, but from what I can see the grid seems much more workable than the past few days.

I don't think it's fair to be angry at linden labs for disabling group and profile data being sent to the viewer. I think they've finally identified what is killing the grid the past few weekends. So now they're disabling it so the grid can remain up and workable (besides profile data and group data).

Now that it's identified as a problem, this gives them the opportunity to make improvements on groups (more of them perhaps?), and profiles. I think I can live without group data and profiles during peak hours, because if I anyone wants to talk to me, they know where to find me.

-Neo

Nope, I am still having the same issues that I always have on the weekend. Lag, failed TP, inventory and rez issues. Nothing is better since they have done this.

Dnate Mars · 04-06-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetrosWorkshop

Maybe so...but there ARE a few people out there who don't have payment info on file, but yet contribute something by working inworld to earn the L$ to buy the things content creators such as you, Siyu, create? as much as I'd love to see the bots gone, It would be a little unfair to those who can't have payment info on file due to credit or personal reasons.

Sorry, I know there are people out there that do fall in this category, but at some point you do have to do what is good for the company. If I am paying for a membership plus more for my land, I do expect to be of higher priority then someone that never pays anything to LL.

Cubey Terra · 04-06-2008, 06:08 PM

Surely they didn't think this through? Profiles aren't just pretty portraits and "about me" stuff. Without profiles:

Customers can't IM me
I can't IM customers
I can't send items (like replacements for items eaten by the asshat server)

This is *not* a workable solution.

**Beebo Brink** · 04-06-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

It's funny. There was that ONE TIME when they said they were going to restrict logins to payment-info-on-files only when things got too hot- and there was even one weekend when they experimented with it. But they sure as hell haven't messed with the floodgates since then.

I went premium (as an alt) for that very contingency. At the time, all my land/tier was handled by my main and I had no need for Premium membership, but I couldn't afford to get locked out of SL since this avatar was running a successful business.

That promise/threat turned out to be more smoke and mirrors from LL.

Siyu Suen · 04-06-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetrosWorkshop

Maybe so...but there ARE a few people out there who don't have payment info on file, but yet contribute something by working inworld to earn the L$ to buy the things content creators such as you, Siyu, create? as much as I'd love to see the bots gone, It would be a little unfair to those who can't have payment info on file due to credit or personal reasons.

That's very true, and by suggesting that I meant no disrespect. I myself also went without payment info on file (in fact, I only got a premium account after having been in business for four-five months), and I completely understand that had I been told I would not be able to log on I would have been rather grumpy. But given the choice between sacrifices, of going and cleaning up the apartment, or having my ability to deliver customer service and conduct my business be hobbled, I'd much rather go and watch a movie for a little while.

My alternative may not be the best, but I really want to voice that what they have now is unacceptable and inexcusable.

Malachi · 04-06-2008, 06:24 PM

New, highly scalable SL client has just been released. You can get the new version 1.20 (only for PCs) now and be up and running in a few minutes. Teleports aren't broken, group chat enabled, minimum graphics requirements are severely reduced, and no shoes up your arse, ever.

All the cool kids are on SL 1.20.

Cocoanut Koala · 04-06-2008, 06:29 PM

This is insane, insane, insane, insane, insane.

In a place where insanity is the rule, this actually takes the CAKE for insanity.

I don't see how we can POSSIBLY continue to do commerce in a world where people can't get ahold of us, and have to wait until a time when they can.

I don't see why anybody will continue to BUY anything when they can't contact the merchant when something goes wrong, and have to wait until LL says they can.

I mean, what kind of insanity is this?

As for "temporary," my foot! This sounds like their new plan for whenever there are "too many people" on line, which is frickin most of the time.

I'm not going to tier down at this point. However, I think I will take my money out of Linden credit, where it sits for paying for future tier. I wonder, though, is this safe to do now?

I'm also considering, reluctantly, selling my land on Azure Islands.

And then - if I get that far - I will consider tiering down my shop, when in fact, I was saving in order to tier up.

Really, how many slaps in the face with a wet fish does it take before I realize this whole ball game is falling apart at the seams, and will likely never get any better?

coco

P.S. If they want to get rid of us - and by us, I mean tier-payers, shop owners, and owners of websites like SLU - why don't they just come out and say so, instead of this insulting death by a thousand cuts.

I hate to say it, but I really, really do think that all they care about is corporations and free accounts to look at their ads.

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnate Mars

Sorry, I know there are people out there that do fall in this category, but at some point you do have to do what is good for the company. If I am paying for a membership plus more for my land, I do expect to be of higher priority then someone that never pays anything to LL.

And you would be right, that makes two of us. Keep in mind, however, that it may end up ruining the openess to everyone SL (I guess) was meant to offer. This is LL's fault for not policing these kind of things from the start, and it's gotten too large for them to control. It's time to give the region owners some of the power here.

**Circle Widdershins** · 04-06-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubey Terra

Surely they didn't think this through? Profiles aren't just pretty portraits and "about me" stuff. Without profiles:

Customers can't IM me
I can't IM customers
I can't send items (like replacements for items eaten by the asshat server)

This is *not* a workable solution.

I have a bad feeling that they did think this through, and were running tests on grid capacity while disabling different functions. I was having problems with profiles in exactly this way (on and off) before the grid went bork up on the weekend. Could they have been trying to decide which functions to live without when the grid was struggling under a heavy load?

??

Atashi Yue · 04-06-2008, 06:42 PM

Groups take up a huge amount of processing as they currently work.

Client - region - chat - members (regions) - send to client.

They are going to have to rethink the entire way groups work to fix this.

Statue Life (Tee Em)

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siyu Suen

That's very true, and by suggesting that I meant no disrespect. I myself also went without payment info on file (in fact, I only got a premium account after having been in business for four-five months), and I completely understand that had I been told I would not be able to log on I would have been rather grumpy. But given the choice between sacrifices, of going and cleaning up the apartment, or having my ability to deliver customer service and conduct my business be hobbled, I'd much rather go and watch a movie for a little while.

My alternative may not be the best, but I really want to voice that what they have now is unacceptable and inexcusable.

No argument here. It IS inexcusable (

Lindens). I myself have begun making enough inworld to do so myself and will once my inworld photo biz is up and running. Here's an idea...BAN CAMPING! wouldn't that be a step in the right direction? Let open a discussion on this...I say that new members should have to get some kind of inworld job or help with public works (it is not that hard for newbs to learn how to place an object, is it?). Make the SL economy mirror the RL one a bit, give basic members a deadline to make either sufficient income inworld or upgrade. Anyone care to expand on this?

Polymorphous · 04-06-2008, 06:59 PM

Perhaps the Cap'n of the ship left the helm and the crew has run amok.

Bams · 04-06-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnate Mars

Too bad we couldn't get a mass protest together and get everyone to log out between those hours to just make a point.

It will just save them from shutting it down when it breaks again so they prolly wont care.

I'm curious the way it's written it almost sounds like this will be an ongoing occurrence during peak times? Why not just get more/better/faster equipment? My bank doesn't stop letting me use the ATM during 'peak times'. I mean, yeah I'm happy to acquiesce a little in order to get it fixed if that's actually what's going to happen, but I've about had my fill or the 'we are sorry for the inconvenience' and 'we appreciate your patience' cause I'll be the first one to let everyone know I don't possess any patience for what amounts to lackluster QoS.

Here's to hoping someone over there at LL knows what they are doing... my offer still stands if they need good engineers I know a few just lemme know. ;P

Sofia Westwick · 04-06-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis

Allow me to play devils advocate.

I just logged on, and it might be a little bit late, but from what I can see the grid seems much more workable than the past few days.

I don't think it's fair to be angry at linden labs for disabling group and profile data being sent to the viewer. I think they've finally identified what is killing the grid the past few weekends. So now they're disabling it so the grid can remain up and workable (besides profile data and group data).

Now that it's identified as a problem, this gives them the opportunity to make improvements on groups (more of them perhaps?), and profiles. I think I can live without group data and profiles during peak hours, because if I anyone wants to talk to me, they know where to find me.

-Neo

Its easy to tell your not a bunsiess person in SL who makes your RL living off it, This hits and affects busniess people really hard. it makes us unable to handle our customers and so on.

If LL wants a bunch of none bunsiess people in SL then they will get it by doing this and then SL will fade away. witho ut us business people SL would fade away and die as there would be nothing for you the people who are just in SL for fun.

**Ann Launay** · 04-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Aw, it's not their fault. Poor babies...

Quote:

Hello Ann

Thank you for your ticket.

I am sorry to hear you are unhappy with our decision to drastically limit services but I feel there is something's I should clarify.

The logical plan you stated is our contingency plan for high loads on our servers, however this wasn't the case with the recent downtime of Second Life.

Unfortunately our upstream provider went down making it impossible to offer more than "drastically limited" services and as the issue didn't lie with our hardware we needed to liaison with our upstream provider to resolve the issue while offering as much service as possible.

As Second Life is managed and built by our residents I assure you that we have the resident in mind when offering our services and taking any action on such issues.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused and we will continue to try and reduce downtime in Second Life.

If you have any other problems or queries then please contact us.

Regards

Dean
Linden Lab Support

*rolls eyes*

Sonja Aeghin · 04-06-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Launay

Aw, it's not their fault. Poor babies...

Quote:
Hello Ann

Thank you for your ticket.

I am sorry to hear you are unhappy with our decision to drastically limit services but I feel there is something's I should clarify.

The logical plan you stated is our contingency plan for high loads on our servers, however this wasn't the case with the recent downtime of Second Life.

Unfortunately our upstream provider went down making it impossible to offer more than "drastically limited" services and as the issue didn't lie with our hardware we needed to liaison with our upstream provider to resolve the issue while offering as much service as possible.

As Second Life is managed and built by our residents I assure you that we have the resident in mind when offering our services and taking any action on such issues.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused and we will continue to try and reduce downtime in Second Life.

If you have any other problems or queries then please contact us.

Regards

Dean
Linden Lab Support

*rolls eyes*

To Dean I say...

04-06-2008, 04:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
Rosie Barthelmess LoD Mgr and Joolry Maker Persona non grata Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central US Posts: 1,632 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 9 SL Join Date: May 6, 2007 Business: Sable Rose Jewelry/Lounge Of Dreams	When they made this "temporary" change a few days ago to test it out, it also meant I couldn't ADD people to any groups, as the people finder wouldn't finalize that little process. Excellent. Here's hoping they at least fixed THAT. sigh. __________________ Owner/Designer, Sable Rose Jewelry Gallinas (near The Shelter): http://slurl.com/secondlife/Gallinas/198/11/59 Filataponic @ Subtle Submission: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Filataponic/209/198/50 Manager & House DJ, Lounge of Dreams http://skatoolaki.com/sablerose -- Sable Rose Jewelry's blog. http://rosiebarthelmess.com-- my blog. Trout Rated: 7.0 "You are evidence that a woman who is comfortable in her own skin has a definite advantage over those who are not."

04-06-2008, 06:08 PM	#37 (permalink)
Cubey Terra aircraft manufacturer in the clouds Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 578 SLShopper Ads: 12 SL Join Date: September 2003 Business: Abbotts Aerodrome	Surely they didn't think this through? Profiles aren't just pretty portraits and "about me" stuff. Without profiles: Customers can't IM me I can't IM customers I can't send items (like replacements for items eaten by the asshat server) This is not a workable solution. __________________ . . . . . Cubey Terra Terra Aeronautics @ Abbotts Aerodrome Terra Aeronautics @ XStreetSL www.cubeyterra.com

04-06-2008, 06:59 PM	#46 (permalink)
Polymorphous Perverse Projects huh? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,073 My Mood: Frogger 3D Champion! Snowy Champion!	Perhaps the Cap'n of the ship left the helm and the crew has run amok. __________________ -Polymorphous Projects in SL Where I've been focussed lately: http://josielamour.blogspot.com/

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04-06-2008, 04:40 PM	#26 (permalink)
Sofia Westwick ........... Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 13 My Mood:	Like I was told if you want LL to know your complaints make a ticket with summary as Supervisor Attention. Then say our complaints about what's going on in the ticket That's better then not saying anything to them. according to the blog this is going to be happening for the next few weeks (or more knowing LL) If they feel it was successful and not many people complain about it to them, they may do it all of the time during peak times. As a cheap way to get around the "problem" instead of having to spend money to buy good equipment.

04-06-2008, 05:58 PM	#34 (permalink)
Sonja Aeghin The Griefing Wall so much for status Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sweet Home ______ Posts: 922 My Mood: Popup Killer Champion! SL Join Date: 2/8/2008 Business: Ugly Schtick Privacy/Griefing Walls! Blog Entries: 2	Quote: Your recent action to limit the usability of profiles and group chat had better be very temporary. As a business owner, what if one of my products fails to deliver, as it almost certainly will due to the asset server issues recently? Without being able to load the profile of a customer, I am unable to provide customer service. Perhaps I could IM them in order to ask them to meet me at my store, so that I could drag the item directly to them? No, that option is not available either. In fact, my customers can't even reach me if they need my attention or have a failed delivery. This is all well and good if this period of non-function only lasts about an hour, or two hours. I am voicing my opinion now, however, to say that this is not going to be a good plan to fall back on any time that there are issues. As a content creator, I don't have to tell you that we are one of the reasons this world works, and why people come back and stay and deal with all of the shenanigans. And you are seriously decreasing our consumer confidence in you. By taking away our ability to communicate with our customers, through group AND IM, it seems like you're deliberately picking on us, almost. Please consider, instead of limiting profiles, limiting log-ins to premium accounts or payment info on file accounts. This would allow your actual customers, the people who have paid to use your service, access to a more stable grid when there are stability issues. Basic accounts without payment info tend to be camping bots, or people who have not been members long enough to have anything seriously invested in-world. Please consider this alternative to cutting the legs out from under content creators and other business people. I suggest other folks do the same, let them know this makes us pissy Maybe so...but there ARE a few people out there who don't have payment info on file, but yet contribute something by working inworld to earn the L$ to buy the things content creators such as you, Siyu, create? as much as I'd love to see the bots gone, It would be a little unfair to those who can't have payment info on file due to credit or personal reasons.

04-06-2008, 06:24 PM	#40 (permalink)
Malachi the bathwater & the baby fish and bees are inherently sarcastic Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,664	New, highly scalable SL client has just been released. You can get the new version 1.20 (only for PCs) now and be up and running in a few minutes. Teleports aren't broken, group chat enabled, minimum graphics requirements are severely reduced, and no shoes up your arse, ever. All the cool kids are on SL 1.20.

04-06-2008, 06:29 PM	#41 (permalink)
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages There is no sanctuary. You may think there is, but there isn't. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,384 SLShopper Ads: 8 Business: Coco's Cottages Awards: 1	This is insane, insane, insane, insane, insane. In a place where insanity is the rule, this actually takes the CAKE for insanity. I don't see how we can POSSIBLY continue to do commerce in a world where people can't get ahold of us, and have to wait until a time when they can. I don't see why anybody will continue to BUY anything when they can't contact the merchant when something goes wrong, and have to wait until LL says they can. I mean, what kind of insanity is this? As for "temporary," my foot! This sounds like their new plan for whenever there are "too many people" on line, which is frickin most of the time. I'm not going to tier down at this point. However, I think I will take my money out of Linden credit, where it sits for paying for future tier. I wonder, though, is this safe to do now? I'm also considering, reluctantly, selling my land on Azure Islands. And then - if I get that far - I will consider tiering down my shop, when in fact, I was saving in order to tier up. Really, how many slaps in the face with a wet fish does it take before I realize this whole ball game is falling apart at the seams, and will likely never get any better? coco P.S. If they want to get rid of us - and by us, I mean tier-payers, shop owners, and owners of websites like SLU - why don't they just come out and say so, instead of this insulting death by a thousand cuts. I hate to say it, but I really, really do think that all they care about is corporations and free accounts to look at their ads.

04-06-2008, 06:42 PM	#44 (permalink)
Atashi Yue Meh(Tee Em) Outside the Median Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,210 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5	Groups take up a huge amount of processing as they currently work. Client - region - chat - members (regions) - send to client. They are going to have to rethink the entire way groups work to fix this. Statue Life (Tee Em)

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