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Old 08-13-2013, 11:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Constant Refreshing?

Is anyone else having issues where the sim seems to be constantly refreshing - things seem to be in a loop where they one by one go fuzzy and then focus again. I thought I was the only one, but someone standing next to me just noticed the same thing.

I have an obscenely good video card and my computer doesn't seem at all taxed. Is this something to do with server side baking? Is there any way to avoid it? Anyone?
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The viewer seems to have recently been changed so it wont keep too many textures in memory at full resolution. If you are seeing textures go blurry and come back after camming around its probably due to there being waayy too many high resolution textures. Content creators commonly use oversized textures so that you can see detail if you look closely at objects and unfortunately materials will make this issue worse by tripling the amount of textures. (I have seen the texture deloading thing happen with certain materials enhanced skyboxes already)
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't have to cam for it to happen. Even standing on a street without that many textures in sight its happening.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you for mentioning this!
I've had it happen pretty much constantly over the last week.

The textures don't seem to only refresh, but re-download entirely, sometimes giving me the error of .. humm what's the message again... either way, it's about running out of texture memory.

It does happen in very texture-intense sims, however, those are not likely to change, since the problem is always blamed on the users computer not being enough up to date.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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My computer is probably about top of the line for what you can get right now, including video card. If anyone tries to tell me this is my computer, I'm just going to laugh.

I think it must have something to do with server side textures, but I'm not really sure what. Or are those only on avatars? Its really confusing to me at the moment.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've seen this mentioned in Nalates' blog a couple of times, and I believe LL are aware of it. I can't remember any details, nor can I remember in which posts she mentions it.

ETA: this is in the SL forums: Textures constantly going blurred - Second Life. Nalates' post there relates the issue to changes in the interest list.

Last edited by KT Kingsley; 08-14-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Which viewer being used might also be a factor as well. For example, in the LL viewer, if the texture memory slider is set to 512, the texture console in the Develop menu will report the amount out of 384 being used. Some other viewers like Firestorm will report the amount out of 512 being used. Also, the LL viewer as of the 3.6.2 release will start dropping textures from memory a short time after they have not been in view (this is no longer the case in the maintenance RC release viewer). Some of the other viewers do not follow this behavior and keep the textures in memory. These differences among the different viewers might play a factor as well as opposed to just how much a person's texture memory amount is set to or how dense or unoptimized with textures a location might be.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I just read that thread, and it sounds like the same issue, but the solutions suggested don't seem relevant.

I'm using the latest Firestorm, with video cache set to 512. If people are having the issue with multiple viewers, I think maybe its a server problem?
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My computer is probably about top of the line for what you can get right now, including video card. If anyone tries to tell me this is my computer, I'm just going to laugh.

I think it must have something to do with server side textures, but I'm not really sure what. Or are those only on avatars? Its really confusing to me at the moment.

Its your computer. You're holding it wrong.



there...someone had to say it.



carry on




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Old 08-14-2013, 11:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think most of the interest list work is done on the server, though I expect there's a viewer component involved too.

It does seem to be the result of a bug in the Lab's software, rather than due to individual viewer or hardware settings.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I just read that thread, and it sounds like the same issue, but the solutions suggested don't seem relevant.

I'm using the latest Firestorm, with video cache set to 512. If people are having the issue with multiple viewers, I think maybe its a server problem?
I get exactly the same issue with both firestorm and the latest LL viewer.
I thought as well it was changes in the interest lists, but, i thought that project was finished? This started for me about a week ago, and seemed to lessen yesterday.

Guess we'll find out tomorrow at the meeting.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I"ve had it happen a few times, but usually a relog fixes things right up.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have recently noticed more texture refreshing than usual. Also recently I have just been getting freezes in crowded areas (lag is normal, freezes are new). The problems do coincide with a lot of camming around (something I'm doing constantly). I had not thought about it previously, but these two symptoms have been occurring since the last update to the LL viewer. So I guess I just have to wait (hope) that the next viewer update will fix the fix that is causing it?
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I get this a lot using Cool Viewer - Henri's code gives a warning and decreases draw distance when it thinks virtual memory is getting low, and around that time the scene begins to rerez constantly, even if I just zero in on the floor. Haven't had the constant rerez happen to me on Firestorm.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The Maintenance RC and Materials Project viewers have a lot of bug fixes, at least some of which seem related to rendering - they may be worth trying and can be downloaded from here.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Check the texture console for bias, should be 0. There seems to be a bug from LL in the last couple months that causers texture bias, likely not releasing textures again. I've gotten it several times. I think there's a fix soon.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Recently there are a bunch of texture problems. The textures repeatedly re-rendering and repeatedly downloading is a viewer bug. I see way more Firestorm users complaining. But, that may be a factor of FS Viewer being 3 times more popular than the SL Viewer.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Check the texture console for bias, should be 0. There seems to be a bug from LL in the last couple months that causers texture bias, likely not releasing textures again. I've gotten it several times. I think there's a fix soon.
I tried this. I had no idea what Texture Console was but it makes for an interesting display as you cam about. When I started the Bias was 1.75. After 2 hours in SL it was 3.25. Is this something one can fix? I'm on the current Firestorm. Thanks!
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Check the texture console for bias, should be 0. There seems to be a bug from LL in the last couple months that causers texture bias, likely not releasing textures again. I've gotten it several times. I think there's a fix soon.
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I tried this. I had no idea what Texture Console was but it makes for an interesting display as you cam about. When I started the Bias was 1.75. After 2 hours in SL it was 3.25. Is this something one can fix? I'm on the current Firestorm. Thanks!
Doesn't sound like a bug from LL in recent times then since the LL code in the current release of Firestorm is several months old (LL 3.4.5 code plus SSA code). They only have the newer stuff in their development repository.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Doesn't sound like a bug from LL in recent times then since the LL code in the current release of Firestorm is several months old (LL 3.4.5 code plus SSA code). They only have the newer stuff in their development repository.
I haven't been using FS till recently and only the current development branch that's based off 3.6.2.

For some reason the few month old 4.4.x release of FS is based off the few month old version of the Linden viewer.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I tried this. I had no idea what Texture Console was but it makes for an interesting display as you cam about. When I started the Bias was 1.75. After 2 hours in SL it was 3.25. Is this something one can fix? I'm on the current Firestorm. Thanks!
Ouch. What GPU do you have? How much video memory? What's your draw distance?
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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for the uninitiated, what does the Bias signify?
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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for the uninitiated, what does the Bias signify?
Its the extra discard level appied to textures to allow all the textures in the scene to be loaded to some extent when out of vram.

Texture discard is term used by JPEG2000 for level of detail. Lower discard level, more detail. Discard 0 is full resolution.

I think the theory is that as vram fills, the viewer increases the texture bias till it can fit all the textures it's attempting to show at that moment. In practice is seems to usually just cause the textures to go in to a loop of reloading.

Ideally you should never have a bias >0. Anything other than really badly over-textured builds (there's a prefab place that does this, 100's of unique 512x512 textures per building ) or not highly populated with avatars should be fine on a GPU with 256MB and draw distance of around 120m.

This is one of those issues that pops up at least once a year, usually its limited to certain hardware.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I haven't been using FS till recently and only the current development branch that's based off 3.6.2.

For some reason the few month old 4.4.x release of FS is based off the few month old version of the Linden viewer.
Since some Firestorm users are experiencing it as well, that is exactly why i said that it doesn't sound like a recent LL bug as you mentioned in this quote ...

Quote:
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Check the texture console for bias, should be 0. There seems to be a bug from LL in the last couple months that causers texture bias, likely not releasing textures again. I've gotten it several times. I think there's a fix soon.
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