SLUniverse Forums

Summer

Wouldn't you mean Catherine's office hour since she is the one in charge of this?

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Cristiano

She is just a mouthpiece. PR people are not known for their straight answers. Robin would be the person I would go to as well.

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Aodhan McDunnough

@Cris and everyone else

Finally got around to reading the legalese in the guidelines. Most of the stuff is pretty straightforward and ordinary so I'll skip to the salient stuff.

1. We can mention SL all we want here as SL (without marks) because you already have the "trademark" text at the page footer. The rule is either first mention in a textual reference (difficult to control on a forum) or trademark reference which you have.

2. The SLUniverse domain name does violate the usage rules so I strongly advise getting written permission. You should be able to given your "age" and prominence.

3. Linden Lab will not go after just any use of SL. They will do so if your name gains the status of "SL Associated Name" and then later gets used for non-SL things, particularly other virtual worlds. To become an SL Associated Name the name has to have been used in conjunction with Second Life. It will be a violation if the name is later used for something else totally not SL.

Here's a sticky part re: SLU. This forum talks about SL AND prominently about other virtual worlds thus creating yet another violation.

Remedy here is either to get dispensation from LL (not likely), or to put the other virtual world forums such as WoW and stuff in a forum under a different domain name (safer and more manageable).

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Clear cache and relog.

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Cindy Claveau

No, screw that. We've gone for years thinking it wasn't a big deal but now Linden Lab™ changed their minds. What's to keep Linden Lab™ from changing their minds™ again and claiming the individual letters "S"™ and "L"™, the phrase "The Grid"™ or "Your Imagination"™ ?

I'm going to err on the side of caution here. I will never again type the words "Second"™, "Life"™, "SL"™, "The Grid"™, "Philip Linden's bastard child"™ or "that steaming pile of dysfunctional horseshit"™ without covering my own ass™ with the trademark symbol.

Cindy Claveau™

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Aodhan McDunnough

Changing their minds is one thing, my statements are based on the current document. It's unlikely to change except in minor ways because as I also said, most of the stuff is ordinary and even expected as far as trademarks go.

None of it bothers me. I've been exposed to the trademark rules of two very large international organizations. In fact I had to be careful with one of them because I was one of the local officers who would be directly handling the organization's logo. The stuff LL has on their ToS and Branding Center are ordinary AFAIC and it's about time they put it up really.

Wendel Gascoigne

Have Windows Vista and the under performance of SL made someone grumpy this morning?

Wendel

EvilMole

Sigh.

Two words: Fair, and use.

Specifically:

"Legal doctrine defines fair use of a trademark as the 'reasonable and good faith use of a descriptive term that is another's trademark to describe rather than to identify the user's goods, services or business'."

In other words, when you're writing about Second Life, you have no need of a TM.

Archer Braun

If numbnuts Phil Rosedale would've been more inspired by Cryptonomicon rather than Snow Crash, the metaverse would be a much different place, dontcha think?
Seriously, after a long absence - and one that will continue - I laughed so fucking hard when I heard about this that I pooped a little bit.

io Kukulcan

It'd be way cooler, and... more violent!

Beezle Warburton

At least it wasn't Tron.

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and the color gray are trademarks or registered trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.
All rights reserved.

FlipperPA Peregrine

Be around more, already, Ian!

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Aminom Marvin

Heh, I've seen more FUD about this issue than any other SL issue- even by extremely smart people and oldbies.

This won't effect you at all. SLU can still be SLU, SLExchange can remain SLEX, etc. The now TOS doesn't require you to relinquish any rights- rather it just specifies that you are not granted the right to use LL trademarks in any way except for fair use and other legal entitlements. It just puts into words what was already the case anyways. This is completely standard and isn't unusual at all.

I've seen people who have refused to log into SL thinking that the TOS violates their right of free speech. I have seen people who think they have to use the trademark symbols anywhere and everywhere, including in forums and chat.

I've recently had my own IP right drama arising from a discussion about the ToU of my trees over at the SL forums. The ToU was developed with friends that are very knowledgeable in IP right matters. However, some people thought that I was trying to prevent competition, or that people could be in violation for merely editing or selecting the product. Finally I had to explain extensively that the only way to violate it would be to download the sculpt or geometric data and edit it in a 3D modeler.

So please, before crying "this will take away all my rights and have the police throw me into Guananamo Bay!" please make sure you actually are interpreting what you read correctly.

Rosie Barthelmess

One has to wonder if this will be enforced the way casinos and gambling was enforced. Go after the big fish, and the little ones, meh. I see sploders all over the grid, when clearly they aren't acceptable under the gambling ban.

Perhaps the wee little bloggers and sites that don't generate any actual profit or revenue won't be chased down and crucified. At least not right away.

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Archer Braun

It'll only be enforced if and when it's in the best interests of LL to enforce it.

Believe it or not, revenue doesn't make that much difference in some aspects of IP law. In terms of a Fair Use defense, for instance, revenue is merely counted as one prong of a four-pronged test used to measure the extent of the alleged violation.

What's going to be interesting is to see what will happen once the RIAA and/or ASCAP/BMI gets involved in the use of music in SL. It hasn't happened, yet...but I'd keep an eye on that front.

Hiro Queso

I really don't think you can blame the readers for how your ToU was 'misinterpreted'. I'd suggest looking closer to home for an explanation as to why it was interpreted the way it was.



ETA: Perhaps those you sought advice from were not very au fait with SL?

Archer Braun

Sorry to say that's not exactly correct. Fair Use for copywritten material carries with it a four-pronged measure to determine if your use of a trademark is protected under the doctrine.

What is the nature of the use? Is it commercial, not-for-profit. Is it disparaging, or bordering on slander or libel?

What's the nature of the material being used? Does it exist as a branding agent or corporate identifier? Is it linked intimately with the business it's used to represent?

How much of the material will you use? Will you dipslay the trademark prominently? Will you use it to imply an affiliation with the business or corporation?

And finally...the big one...What effect will your use have on the market for the business that owns this material?

Now...as far as trademark fair usage is concerned
the cited description means that you shouldn't use LL's or SL's trademark to try and brand your own product or service as one related to LL or SL. But saying that you're a forum or blog that's dedicated to commentary about LL or SL should be acceptable.

The terrible part about copyright and trademark questions is that the only real and true answers can come from a judge or a jury.

In my mind, this move is one that, coupled with PR's decision to become CEO, means that LL is positioning itself for either a sale or an IPO. Either one should be pretty interesting.

Raindrop Drinkwater

We will have to find a new name for "SL Starter", too. Grrrrr. That wouldn't be a big deal, as Aby had wanted to include other grids in the application -- just not so soon!

The big annoyance, though, is that I will have to make a new ad, icon and the whole tra-la-la.

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Aodhan McDunnough

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with this. I use an original logo and my site name is second-level (sl.aodhansforge.com) and the top-level domain name easily meets the requirements.

Only thing I had to do was take down the SL logo. I have not put the inSL logo in its place yet nor have I put the trademark notices but those are trivial in comparison to having brands and domains changed.

Cindy Claveau

Ten