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Old 05-09-2013, 01:11 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Yes, people are going to move. May not be to opensim but it will be something. From what I'm seeing here and inworld a lot of LL business comes from outside the states. People will move to other platforms because there will be no incentive to stay with SL. So, yes, they have a damn good incentive to improve their services now, because I think this will impact a full 1/3 of their business or more.
Among the incentives I have to stay in SL rather than move elsewhere is that SL is where the customers are, not to mention that moving elsewhere would mean rebuilding and retexturing everything, and possibly having to rescript a lot of stuff too.

There's no point in having fast and easy cash-outs to the currency of my choice if there's nothing much to cash out in the first place.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #252 (permalink)
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You trust them to realize this -and/or to care?
While I admit you have a point, but I don't believe they will have much of a choice. I don't know of any company that can survive losing a full 1/3 of its revenue stream, with out a drastic reduction in service. An with such a reduction in service, I doubt the rest of the 2/3 will stick around long.

So yes, they will realize it and care or go out of business. Which I will be sadden but I will get over it.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:18 PM   #253 (permalink)
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There's no point in having fast and easy cash-outs to the currency of my choice if there's nothing much to cash out in the first place.
I believe that is pretty much my point. If there is no fast and easy way to cash out or even cash in, what is the point of staying?
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #254 (permalink)
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Hmm, incentives to stay in SL.

* The difficulties (and costs) of moving businesses
* Friends and other relationships
* Long-term roleplay
* Investment in activities, events, programs, and
* Various other plans and commitments

There's also the possibility that this change will affect only a small percentage of current members, and that percentage is simply extremely vocal right now.

Sometimes change is necessary, but unless you have no ties it's rarely easy because often there are incentives, lots of them, to *not* move.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #255 (permalink)
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I don't know of any company that can survive losing a full 1/3 of its revenue stream
Where did you get that percentage from?
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #256 (permalink)
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I believe that is pretty much my point. If there is no fast and easy way to cash out or even cash in, what is the point of staying?
Most US and British residents, I think, aren't going to notice the changes. Cashing out isn't an issue to most people, and most people find it easy enough to buy L$ on the Lindex. Even if you do find it difficult, you've still got the incentive to stay in SL, if you possibly can, that if you leave you'll have to dump most of your friends, not to mention your inventory, and start over.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:31 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Where did you get that percentage from?
Just from observation .... I made it up.

But I do think I have a valid point. The Lab does get a lot of its business from overseas. It does have the potential to be a huge hit in income for them.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #258 (permalink)
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If one is still interested enough in SL, one will find a work around. You don't need to have a CC to use paypall. Everybody with a European bank account can use the service.

If one is almost done with SL, this new TOS thingy just might be the trigger to pull the plug.
It probably won't be 1/3 of the residents, but there will be some losses.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:01 PM   #259 (permalink)
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I doubt Linden Lab has any way of knowing how many people, and how many L$ transactions, this affects. I assume they know which accounts belong to the exchanges (maybe I am assuming too much), and knowing that they can know how much L$ goes through them. I doubt they have any way of knowing how many people are able to switch to LindeX, and how many are not able even if they wanted to.

We'll have a better idea a month from now, when landlords know how many more tenants have defaulted on rent than usual.

Because Linden Lab apparently never talks to customers, the Lab will never know. Any revenue hits they take will be an eternal mystery.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:47 PM   #260 (permalink)
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I doubt Linden Lab has any way of knowing how many people, and how many L$ transactions, this affects. I assume they know which accounts belong to the exchanges (maybe I am assuming too much), and knowing that they can know how much L$ goes through them. I doubt they have any way of knowing how many people are able to switch to LindeX, and how many are not able even if they wanted to.

We'll have a better idea a month from now, when landlords know how many more tenants have defaulted on rent than usual.

Because Linden Lab apparently never talks to customers, the Lab will never know. Any revenue hits they take will be an eternal mystery.
they'd have worst case as it's quite easy for them to identify which accounts only cash out or only bring in money through the exchanges. They're well aware of how many people they're impacting and obviously their care factor is non existent. I assume they're banking on the sl addiction forcing those people to find an alternative method.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:56 PM   #261 (permalink)
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If one is still interested enough in SL, one will find a work around. You don't need to have a CC to use paypall. Everybody with a European bank account can use the service.
Actually if you want to open a paypal account, a simple bank giro account (check account) doesn't work. You have to have a credit card, because EC Cards (cash cards) simply aren't accepted by Paypal (anymore?).
And afaik, only a tiny minority (in Germany at least, I don't know about the Netherlands) even has a credit card - simply because nearly everything goes by cash, cash card, direct deposit (Überweisung) or direct debit (Lastschrift).

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If one is almost done with SL, this new TOS thingy just might be the trigger to pull the plug.
It probably won't be 1/3 of the residents, but there will be some losses.
I guess it will be more than 1/3. Simply because LL has ONLY Paypal and Credit Card as payment method, and these two methods simply don't work for everyone.
Heck, if I remember correctly, there even were threads here on SLU about cases in which these payment methods didn't even work for some people in the USA, where credit cards are the norm.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:04 PM   #262 (permalink)
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After reading 6 pages, this is what I got:

"L$ will be a virtual currency and cannot be cashed out"

If this so happens to happen, many (almost 100,000+) subscribers will quit.

Reasoning behind this is that people come here to try to make money and spread ideas, while following laws, but I am sick of money being an excuse in the US because "oh hey, we want your money"

I've only made $400. I don't like where this is going. And who says I won't file taxes on this, cause I would once I hit the threshold of $700. Sounds to me like they really want to upset a lot of people because of this change over money.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #263 (permalink)
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Actually if you want to open a paypal account, a simple bank giro account (check account) doesn't work. You have to have a credit card, because EC Cards (cash cards) simply aren't accepted by Paypal (anymore?).
And afaik, only a tiny minority (in Germany at least, I don't know about the Netherlands) even has a credit card - simply because nearly everything goes by cash, cash card, direct deposit (Überweisung) or direct debit (Lastschrift).
When Paypal started years ago you could only use a credit card for that service. But since a couple of years a bank account without a CC is enough to use the paypal service.
To use Paypal you only need a bank account that you use for your payments (so not a savings account).
Just fill that number in on the application form together with some additional information, then allow a micro transaction of one Euro cent so they can check if the account is valid, and a few days later you are all set to use paypal.
All Paypal transactions are now linked to your bank account by direct deposit and debit.
No cc needed.
I use that method for several years now.

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:12 PM   #264 (permalink)
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After reading 6 pages, this is what I got:

"L$ will be a virtual currency and cannot be cashed out"
If that is the direction LL decides to go, then they'll deserve the huge and immediate loss of income due to member drop out rates exceeding that of rats leaving a sinking ship. But until they make that move, it's FUD.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:12 PM   #265 (permalink)
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I think I'm expecting the rate to go up.

Remember when it was 152/1$?

I do.
I would love that, I'd make an additional 700USD if I cashed out.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #266 (permalink)
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*sigh*

The last time I used the Lindex to cash out it took 16 DAYS to get my money. This was after being a regular user for months/years, and always cashing out about the same modest amount.

The previous two transactions had also taken longer than 5 days, and while I thought I was being very patient and considerate in communicating with LL about the problem, I never even got a response as to why it took 16 days. Which is why I went to Virwox, and never had a problem getting my money, or getting it immediately.

So yes, I suppose I'll have to time my cash outs more carefully -- but as an aside, for some people, cashing out on a Monday inevitably means the money won't make it to their bank account until the following Monday. That's more like 7-8 days waiting for your money.

It's the principle of the thing: Holding on to your customers money that long is simply an unacceptable, unprofessional business practice.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #267 (permalink)
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It appears Anshex is still operating.

Which makes me wonder if this situation spooked Linden Lab and make them re-evaluate how closely the want to be tied to third parties:

Did anyone else get this e-mail?
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:18 PM   #268 (permalink)
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Actually if you want to open a paypal account, a simple bank giro account (check account) doesn't work. You have to have a credit card, because EC Cards (cash cards) simply aren't accepted by Paypal (anymore?).
My PayPal account has always been connected either directly to my current account or via a Visa debit card. I haven't used a credit card in years. Certainly not since well before I either opened a PayPal account or joined SL.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:20 PM   #269 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by flamewarden77
"L$ will be a virtual currency and cannot be cashed out"
It's not clear that cashing out via lindex will be eliminated. I expect it will so plan to sell and transfer regularly until that ax falls. It'll be interesting to see what happens when SL is free-to-play allowing us to only purchase lindens directly from the Lab.

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I would love that, I'd make an additional 700USD if I cashed out.
There's no way in Kris' Heaven or Hell I'd have 700USD worth on lindens on the Grid at this point.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #270 (permalink)
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It's not clear that cashing out via lindex will be eliminated. I expect it will so plan to sell and transfer regularly until that ax falls. It'll be interesting to see what happens when SL is free-to-play allowing us to only purchase lindens directly from the Lab.
perhaps we'll go back to Philip's original idea which was you either built it yourself or bartered for it.

it will certainly have some charm.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:28 PM   #271 (permalink)
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I would love that, I'd make an additional 700USD if I cashed out.

HUH? no you would make less $USD
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:32 PM   #272 (permalink)
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HUH? no you would make less $USD
Nooo.

If it's $L250/$1, you make 1 dollar US for every 250 Lindens you have.

If it's $L150/$1, you make 1 dollar US for every 150 Lindens you have.

If it's $L1/$1, you make 1 dollar US for every 1 Lindens you have. (Never likely, just here for obviousness sake)

The lower it is on the Linden side, the better it is for us (well, when cashing out).

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #273 (permalink)
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When people start to think that it will be no longer possible to cash out, you will see something like L$50,000/$1 more likely.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #274 (permalink)
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It's not clear that cashing out via lindex will be eliminated. I expect it will so plan to sell and transfer regularly until that ax falls. It'll be interesting to see what happens when SL is free-to-play allowing us to only purchase lindens directly from the Lab.



There's no way in Kris' Heaven or Hell I'd have 700USD worth on lindens on the Grid at this point.
Since LL depends on the big land barons for most of it's income, I seriously doubt that would happen. If they ever disallow cashouts, it's because they are shutting SL down, or possibly selling it.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:39 PM   #275 (permalink)
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It's not clear that cashing out via lindex will be eliminated. I expect it will so plan to sell and transfer regularly until that ax falls. It'll be interesting to see what happens when SL is free-to-play allowing us to only purchase lindens directly from the Lab.
I don't see it happening. LL's main source of income is tier from private sims. How many private sims would stay open if the owners had to fund them wholly out of their own pockets and could only defray the costs by providing tenants or customers with their PayPay details (and thus their rl identities)? If we can't cash out, then unless LL can start paying bills and salaries in L$, the Lab's financial model is in pieces.
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