Psyke Phaeton

True then but Mono gives us expanded complexity in design. We are severely hampered by 16kb and the current solutions are crude.

And we need a more sophisitcated type of llSetText. Choose font, fixed angle of rotation then we can get rid of XyText/Xyzzy

__________________

Chalice Yao

Yeah, 64kb for mono scripts, but I assume that their datatypes also take more space.


Anyways, no, mono, havok 4 and web on a prim won't be released at the same time.

Havok 4?
The estimated grid-wide release is in..8 days. Yep, you read that right, around the 25th to 26th if all goes by scedule. Date can be gotten from the latest Havok 4 office hour transcript (from the 11th) on the SL wiki.

Mono?
Well, no idea yet. As one of the previous posts have shown, they're not quite sure -when- to go for a release milestone.

Web on a prim is already in the RC, tho very very rudimentary. I hate the fact it's a parcel setting..IMO anything but the music should be a per-prim setting, and just be secured with a yes/no/Mute blue dialog along the lines of 'x wants to show y on its face'
Web on a prim final is sceduled for May, if I recall correctly, so I assume they'll put some more work into it.

Cristiano

I don't understand why there won't be automatic conversion to Mono. That seems rather counterproductive and shortsighted.

__________________
"At least he died doing what he loved most - blogging on the Huffington Post" - 30 Rock

* slu stuff *

Psyke Phaeton

One big problem is that because there is no in-SL external data storage for scripts all data is stored in memory. Recompiling converts all scripts back to default/empty of data.

But the true reason is because they know something will bork half the scripts in SL if they did.

They also really need data storage in proportion to land size. Something like a mini database.

FlipperPA Peregrine

I'm still amazed there isn't native support for over-riding the default animations in the client - perhaps, through inventory (right click anim -> set as default -> walk/jump/run/fly/crouch/turn l/turn r/etc). The fact everyone is running a timer 10 times a second is ricockulous. This should have been included in the 1.4 release... and I'm amazed that 4.5 years letter, there isn't a better solution for text than Xylor's solution from 2003!

Regards,

-Flip

__________________
Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

Khamon

Yeah but people bite my head off when I comment that AOs are dragging the sim. They generally spit it back out so I can reattach it without having to grow a new one; but it's uncomfortable all the same.

__________________
But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song. - Quenta Silmarillion

Please Visit Our Gardens and Our Website

Khamon

They say things like "cold dead hands" and I'm like well okay sure.

Come Here

jauani

10 times a seocnd doesn't seem like a lot. is that a lot?

Chalice Yao

The more I think about it, the more I realize it's quite possible to make an AO that doesn't do any tightly timed checks at all.

Currently, AOs simply run a tight timer (0.1 secs, perhaps even 0.05) and check if your av is playing one of the built-in animations. if yes, they replace it with one of their configured anims.

So far so good, but why not do it like this:

have the AO check keyboard input, like vehicles do. depending on what you press and if your AV is walking or flying, simply play the configured walk/fly/jump/crouch anims.

And for standing around, sure, a 10-20 second timer that changes anims.

The only issue is sitting, really, but that doesn't need a too tight timer either. Main reason for AO use is the walking and standing, and most furniture brings its own animations.

I actually wonder if the changed_scale event is triggered if an AV sits..


..I'm off topic, aren't I?

Penny Patton

To be fair, the default animations are a crude, sick joke that defy reason as much as the default avatars. I mean, it's like LL wants people to log in once, wretch at how hideous everything is, and log out again, never looking back.

Penny Patton

That said, a built in client AO that didn't hit sim performance like your typical attachment AO would be fantastic.

There should still be decent defaults (same goes for avatars and everything else you start with), but a built in AO option seems like such a basic thing.

I'd say I'm surprised LL hasn't fixed this yet, but...I'm not.

Khamon

Yes Alice, it is a lot.

FlipperPA Peregrine

IIRC, timers are throttled at 10 times per second maximum.

WarKirby Magojiro

no, it's 25.

It's not a per second delay as such. but rather that LSL seems to impose a (very small) delay between each event. for timers, I believe it's something like 0.04 secs

This explains a little more, but the topic is a little hazy:

LSL Wiki : llMinEventDelay

In testing, I was unable to call more than 25 timer events in any particular second, regardless of how low the timer was set.

__________________
Wounds, both physical and mental, heal in time. bones reknit, therapy and drugs make you forget. Life goes on.
But nothing cures death. Please remember this.

WarKirby Magojiro

Also, this has been on jira for a while

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-386

vote, comment etc.

WarKirby Magojiro

The event is changed, the flag raised is CHANGED_LINK

WarKirby Magojiro

I'm posting too much. Going to be quiet now

FlipperPA Peregrine

Hmmm, that must be a change - I remember being told around 1.4/1.5 that it was 10. It'll probably change again with Mono!

Chalice Yao

CHANGED_LINK does not get triggered in attachments of an AV sitting down. That'd be too easy, you see ;P

and yes, I was referring to the changed_scale flag of the changed event.

Penny Patton

Until SL has the following, no matter what Linden Lab says, SL is still at 1.suck.

Multiple avatar meshes to truly allow for a variety of sizes and bodytypes.

The return of the ability to make the avatar, and portions thereof as required, invisible without the horrible "invisiprim" work-around.

The ability to create and script NPCs, with some basic tools like chat trees, menus, scripted actions, NPC AOs, and roaming paths.

An AO built right into the client that doesn't hit the server like a club going blingtard on a scripted freebies binge.

Shadows.

A UI designed for human beings, preferably human beings with dignity and self respect.

Shiny+transparenc-, no, scratch that. Specular maps. Specular maps that work on everything, including textures with transparency, and the avatar mesh itself.

Decent default avatars that do not make anyone who's played a videogame since, oh, 1998 go, "Ew, that's hideous."

Decent default animations, see above.

I'm certain I could go on. These are just what immediately spring to mind.

Chalice Yao

Amen to that.

Don't forget: several attachments per bodypart. And while we're at it, let me decide the layer level of stacks of clothes. why use static 'jacket' 'undershirt' and 'shirt'?

wear on -> chest -> layer 1..4
on subsequent wear use previously set layer.

FlipperPA Peregrine

Done, here's what I said:

"I'm with Penny - somewhat. This should have been included in the 1.4 release, when custom animations were introduced. I'd like the ability to simply right click any animation in my inventory, and set it as my walk / run / crouch / etc. Animation packs could be sold that remember what they over ride, much like attachments remember a default attachment point and position. Most people who attend events in Second Life are not casual users, so on a fully packed sim running an event, you're talking about up to 100 people all with a script in an attachment running 25 times per second to determine their animation state, even if idle.

I also agree with Penny that SL's retention rates would be much improved if better default animations (or several sets to choose from) were included. The default male walk, run, and sit make me look like the Tin Man from The Wizard of Oz at best, and a paraplegic octopus as worst!"

Penny Patton

I was tempted to include my feelings that better default avatars should be included.

I say this as a content creator myself, too. I've heard the "it's not fair to content creators" line before, and it's an argument that does not hold up to scrutiny.

The more people in SL, the more people that are buying. Sure, a smaller percentage may feel the need to run out and buy new animations, but with many more people in SL I sincerely doubt content creators would feel the burn.

As long as there's a limited selection of stock animations, no matter how nice they are, there will be a market. People like to be unique.

Same goes for avatars. Put out like 6 or so nice default avatars, with some extra clothes and attachments for a bit of variety, and people will still grow tired of looking basically like everyone else.

The increased retention would more than make up for any initial loss of sales, given time. Probably not all that much time, either.

Also, content creators as a whole would aim higher. Who's going to buy some overpriced crap when their defaults look better? Sure, that might weed out some of the worst content creators, but is that really a bad thing? Some might be discouraged, others will aim higher, and more decent content creators will begin to take an interest in SL and join the ranks.

When I started making avatars in 2006, people who had been in SL much longer, and who were much wiser than me, gave me sound advice. "Prim attachments will never mesh well with avatar clothes. Don't even try, it will never look good."

Other than the addition of flexi-prims, the prim selection hasn't really changed since then, but you see people doing a lot more than squishing a flat textured cylinder into an av jacket and calling it a collar these days. Many just don't realize what can be done, and this point is driven home everytime someone posts an impressive screenshot of something and someone who's been in SL for years goes, "I can't believe I'm looking at SL!"

*edit*

Well, yes, sculpted prims were also added, but I mean even before sculpted prims hit the grid, people were doing some really nice stuff with regular prims and av meshes and it was no longer uncommon.

Penny Patton

Also, and I know I'm repeating myself here, change the name! If SL had nicer graphics when you first create an account (that's avs, animations, and orientation environment), and wasn't named something that screams "haven for internet shut-ins", then you'd quickly see more people standing up and taking notice.