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Lordfly Digeridoo · 03-06-2008, 06:44 PM

Parcel Media Changes in 1.19.1 Release Candidate « Official Linden Blog

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Huh. Wonder what brought this on.

Screwtape Foulsbane · 03-06-2008, 06:52 PM

Can't click on a link but looks like you might be able to load a page. No more xyztext prims!

**Adam Zaius** · 03-06-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwtape Foulsbane

Can't click on a link but looks like you might be able to load a page. No more xyztext prims!

No, that will still happen.

LL did this in an ass-backwards way.

You have to be on the same parcel as the prim, and there's only one page per prim.

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 06:56 PM

The way realXtend is doing it is better, but I suppose it's a start.

This way only works per-parcel. You can only have one website on per parcel and you only see the website if you're standing on it.

Conversely the rex viewer will let you have multiple websites active that can be seen anywhere within your draw distance.

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 06:57 PM

Adam beat me!

Lordfly Digeridoo · 03-06-2008, 07:01 PM

Well, it IS a start. The 200 people currently enjoying RealExtend can enjoy the better, newer, shinier web features, but the other million of us can finally render SOMETHING from the internet.

qarl · 03-06-2008, 07:03 PM

Joshua -

the reason we went the parcel-way (instead of the every prim way like realXtend) is for griefing.

it's easy to create a webpage that will crash mozilla. if a griefer could wear 1000 crashing webpages on his head - it would be a bad bad thing.

K.

**Cristiano** · 03-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qarl

Joshua -

the reason we went the parcel-way (instead of the every prim way like realXtend) is for griefing.

it's easy to create a webpage that will crash mozilla. if a griefer could wear 1000 crashing webpages on his head - it would be a bad bad thing.

K.

There is a happy median, such as only allowing prims of the land owner of the same parcel to be set to this. As it stands, it severely limits the usability of it.

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qarl

Joshua -

the reason we went the parcel-way (instead of the every prim way like realXtend) is for griefing.

it's easy to create a webpage that will crash mozilla. if a griefer could wear 1000 crashing webpages on his head - it would be a bad bad thing.

K.

zomg I summoned a Linden.

Well, ignore my comment after your post then.

I understand the griefing angle but making it per parcel restrictive is... restrictive. It's not like serving up a quicktime movie, where only having one is not such a huge deal. I could cover the walls of my store in frequently asked questions with it set up the way realXtend is doing it.

However it is a start, and a welcomed improvement on not being able to do it at all, even if I do raise an eyebrow at the timing.

**Cristiano** · 03-06-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

However it is a start, and a welcomed improvement on not being able to do it at all, even if I do raise an eyebrow at the timing.

Well, if nothing else, it proves that competition is an excellent motivating factor, and can only end up improving things.

qarl · 03-06-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

There is a happy median, such as only allowing prims of the land owner of the same parcel to be set to this. As it stands, it severely limits the usability of it.

fair point. seems like a good implementation would be to allow an array of parcel media settings, instead of just one.

if you create the PJIRA, i'll pick-up the task.

K.

Lordfly Digeridoo · 03-06-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qarl

if you create the PJIRA, i'll pick-up the task.

K.

I don't know what that means, but someone do it.

Verkin Raven · 03-06-2008, 07:38 PM

I think one application I can name off the top of my head would be allowing merchants to have a wiki console for information regarding their products without having the participant open a webpage. Information can be presented a little better than notecards, although in one specific location.. hm

Not sure how many people SL in a window or how the web-on-a-prim works though, but if it's solid that's what I'd do.

Kristian · 03-06-2008, 08:49 PM

Oh. I have a use for this right now. Excellent.

Khamon · 03-06-2008, 10:52 PM

If anybody ever argues with me again when I say LL withholds useful and necessary features just because they "might be used to harm the commuuuuunity" I'm gonna bite their ears off.

Aodhan McDunnough · 03-06-2008, 11:04 PM

Still a w00table

Joannah Cramer · 03-06-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

The way realXtend is doing it is better, but I suppose it's a start.

It's first milestone of a bigger project. They've had it in the pipeline for a while:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Media_on_a_parcel

Quote:

The Project will deploy in several milestones. The first of these will deliver the underlying re-architecture of the Media Library and support for HTML on a parcel. Subsequent milestones will provide for Media in the HUD, multiple URLs per parcel, and implement new Media Type support.

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 11:21 PM

Well the code for this has been in the viewer since the beginning almost and was switched off by LL.

Joannah Cramer · 03-06-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khamon

If anybody ever argues with me again when I say LL withholds useful and necessary features just because they might be used to "harm the commuuuuunity" I'm gonna bite their ears off.

Well, duh. At the same time it's actually good to know they do take time to consider aspects beyond "ohhh shiny" as the other approach can very quickly lead to "ohhh fuck".

( https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Web_Textures as case in point )

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joannah Cramer

Well, duh. At the same time it's actually good to know they do take time to consider aspects beyond "ohhh shiny" as the other approach can very quickly lead to "ohhh fuck".

( https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Web_Textures as case in point )

I don't really think this was an issue of taking the time to consider it. It's been in the viewer for nearly three years if not more, and it's ramped up to release candidate status less than a month after a competing open source viewer implements it? I think this had nothing about considering implications. That might have been why it was suppressed, but it's certainly not why it was suddenly pushed out the door now, when realXtend did it a few weeks ago.

Aodhan McDunnough · 03-06-2008, 11:30 PM

There's one more downside to being able to see so many pages. Bandwidth.

If we can see many htmls on prims each of those take bandwidth from their site host to display even if the person isn't planning to read them. Each prim becomes a browser window.

What we're going to see is wasted bandwidth climbing and people will wind up paying more for bandwitdh used. It's like streaming video and sound where each person watching a video opens a stream of that video. 10 people watching = 10 streams.

While html is much lower in bandwidth needs it's still going to pile up sooner or later as the X-on-a-prim starts getting sophisticated.

If this ever explodes you may see the death of free hosting.

Joannah Cramer · 03-06-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

It's been in the viewer for nearly three years if not more, and it's ramped up to release candidate status less than a month after a competing open source viewer implements it?

What exactly was in the viewer for nearly three years? This statement seems odd because Mozilla (which if i understand right is used to handle the web content) hasn't been hooked into SL viewer until quite recently...

Joshua Nightshade · 03-06-2008, 11:35 PM

This feature that they've suddenly implemented has been disabled in the code base for nearly three years. However it's technically implemented is beyond me, but they could have activated this three years ago more or less, essentially, and did not. I don't know what relationship it has to Mozilla being hooked in for the profile websites and so forth, but they had the functionality three years ago.

Joannah Cramer · 03-06-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

This feature that they've suddenly implemented has been disabled in the code base for nearly three years. However it's technically implemented is beyond me, but they could have activated this three years ago more or less, essentially, and did not. I don't know what relationship it has to Mozilla being hooked in for the profile websites and so forth, but they had the functionality three years ago.

Josh, if this is technically beyond you then where do you get this information from?

03-06-2008, 06:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lordfly Digeridoo Grid.Living Buy my prefabs! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,318 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5 SL Join Date: 7/21/2003 Business: Grid.Living XBOX Leaderboard: 18^th Awards: 1	SL RC1 has web on a prim?! Parcel Media Changes in 1.19.1 Release Candidate « Official Linden Blog __________________ http://www.lordfly.com/

03-06-2008, 06:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Screwtape Foulsbane Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 29 My Mood: Jewels Champion! Bejeweled Champion! SLShopper Ads: 8	Can't click on a link but looks like you might be able to load a page. No more xyztext prims! __________________ Silly & Sane, home of Mr. Pig and the Wearable Chair. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Teal%20Island/88/210/25 or http://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?nam...chantID=117825

03-06-2008, 08:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
Kristian stored in the cloud SLU Supporter PHIL LINDEN SKULLFCKED ME RIGHT HERE* Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,866 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2/26/2005	Oh. I have a use for this right now. Excellent. __________________ Ming's Things http://slurl.com/secondlife/Stargazer/232/232/1501

03-06-2008, 10:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
Khamon BUY TREES MOAR1 Iz a timeout Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 4,819 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens Flowers and Trees	If anybody ever argues with me again when I say LL withholds useful and necessary features just because they "might be used to harm the commuuuuunity" I'm gonna bite their ears off. __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song. - Quenta Silmarillion Please Visit Our Gardens and Our Website Last edited by Khamon; 03-06-2008 at 11:27 PM. Reason: to correct my quote

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03-06-2008, 06:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Huh. Wonder what brought this on.

03-06-2008, 06:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	The way realXtend is doing it is better, but I suppose it's a start. This way only works per-parcel. You can only have one website on per parcel and you only see the website if you're standing on it. Conversely the rex viewer will let you have multiple websites active that can be seen anywhere within your draw distance.

03-06-2008, 06:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Adam beat me!

03-06-2008, 07:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lordfly Digeridoo Grid.Living Buy my prefabs! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,318 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5 SL Join Date: 7/21/2003 Business: Grid.Living XBOX Leaderboard: 18^th Awards: 1	Well, it IS a start. The 200 people currently enjoying RealExtend can enjoy the better, newer, shinier web features, but the other million of us can finally render SOMETHING from the internet.

03-06-2008, 07:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
qarl Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10	Joshua - the reason we went the parcel-way (instead of the every prim way like realXtend) is for griefing. it's easy to create a webpage that will crash mozilla. if a griefer could wear 1000 crashing webpages on his head - it would be a bad bad thing. K.

03-06-2008, 07:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
Verkin Raven vs. Godzilla :D Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,068 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 3 SL Join Date: 1/4/05 Blog Entries: 2	I think one application I can name off the top of my head would be allowing merchants to have a wiki console for information regarding their products without having the participant open a webpage. Information can be presented a little better than notecards, although in one specific location.. hm Not sure how many people SL in a window or how the web-on-a-prim works though, but if it's solid that's what I'd do.

03-06-2008, 11:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
Aodhan McDunnough exp(ln(Gearhead)) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 5,841 My Mood: Beer Tapper Gone Wild Champion! Apprentice : Dairy Queen Champion! SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: March 28, 2006 Business: Aodhan's Forge Blog Entries: 2	Still a w00table

03-06-2008, 11:21 PM	#19 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Well the code for this has been in the viewer since the beginning almost and was switched off by LL.

03-06-2008, 11:30 PM	#22 (permalink)
Aodhan McDunnough exp(ln(Gearhead)) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 5,841 My Mood: Beer Tapper Gone Wild Champion! Apprentice : Dairy Queen Champion! SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: March 28, 2006 Business: Aodhan's Forge Blog Entries: 2	There's one more downside to being able to see so many pages. Bandwidth. If we can see many htmls on prims each of those take bandwidth from their site host to display even if the person isn't planning to read them. Each prim becomes a browser window. What we're going to see is wasted bandwidth climbing and people will wind up paying more for bandwitdh used. It's like streaming video and sound where each person watching a video opens a stream of that video. 10 people watching = 10 streams. While html is much lower in bandwidth needs it's still going to pile up sooner or later as the X-on-a-prim starts getting sophisticated. If this ever explodes you may see the death of free hosting.

03-06-2008, 11:35 PM	#24 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	This feature that they've suddenly implemented has been disabled in the code base for nearly three years. However it's technically implemented is beyond me, but they could have activated this three years ago more or less, essentially, and did not. I don't know what relationship it has to Mozilla being hooked in for the profile websites and so forth, but they had the functionality three years ago.

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