SLUniverse Forums

Nimrod Yaffle

Stealing sculpts that are modable is easier than using the built-in texture UUID giver. DO NOT LEAVE SCULPTS MOD! >_<

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Buy my pirate stuff: http://www.slexchange.com/modules.ph...erchantID=4318

Liona Clio

Okay. I just stoked Stoker.

I wrote a big long post about this...and my login timed out and wiped my post.

So. my pain point is this: Content Theft is bad, everyone on SLU agrees with this. Raging about it is bad, IMHO. It's rage that was the seed that destroyed the SL Official Forums as a place to post, and what closed Second Citizen.

We can wish LL would become competent. And if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak. Anyone who thinks drahma is going to solve the problems of SL is living in a dream world.

Which may be part of the problem.

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"Well, my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle."

Especially at night, I worry over situations I know will be alright. Perhaps its just my imagination. Day after day it reappears. Night after night my heartbeat, shows the fear. Ghosts appear and fade away... -Colin Hay

Joshua Nightshade

Err I completely disagree Liona and I think you're pulling parallels that don't exist.

Cristiano

I also completely disagree with your post. The main forums were sanitized of critical comments. LL became less and less tolerant of any criticism and cut off channels of communication. It had nothing to do with "rage", it had to do with suppressing an increasingly upset customer base.

The "rage" at Second Citizen is not what caused its closure. Suffice it to say that it was a combination of things that resulted in Mother deciding it was no longer worth it for him to continue. Similar issues nearly derailed this forum as well, but I refused to let it. None of it has to do with people being critical or complaining.

People need any outlet to speak, and yes, to complain, when they have been wronged. We could all roll over and play dead but not everyone is like that. To dismiss valid criticism as just drama or that people are just living in a dream world is overly cynical. There are legal obligations that LL is not living up to, and very valid questions to be asked, and just because LL tries to cut off the opportunity to do so doesn't mean people should just shut up. I am proud to offer a place where people can speak openly.

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"How do you defame someone who has been arrested in three different Chuck E. Cheeses?" - 30 Rock

Ryozu

So what's the requirements for a DMCA Takedown notice again?

You just.. file one?

How well is the authenticity verified? Who judges what is an actual takedown notice or someone forging one against a legit business?

let's get some DMCA 101 in here... Prove to me I couldn't ruin your day if LL simply deleted all assets completely on receipt of a DMCA notice?

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Joshua Nightshade

You're right unfortunately, there is room for abuse. LL is not obligated nor required to verify a takedown notice. In fact they really can't. They get one, they have to comply.

However, if I have a notice filed on me for the purposes of fucking with my stuff, and not because I've infringed anyone, I can counter file. And there are incredibly high civil penalties for filing false notices. Cris can attest to this directly, as an asshole DMCA'd his and several other sites in 2006 because they were using a photo of him from a FOX news broadcast and he couldn't handle negative commentary. He claimed he owned the copyright on the photo (he didn't) and got the shit sued out of him in return for abusing the DMCA.

So the way it works is I DMCA your shit. LL is obligated to immediately take it down, let you know that it was taken down because of a DMCA, and give you timely notice to counter file if you choose. There are penalties for counter filing if you don't have copyright as well. While it can be used to abuse someone just because you don't like them, there are penalties for doing so that extend into real world law.

Cristiano

Here is the link to the settlement re: Michael Crook:

Diehl v. Crook | Electronic Frontier Foundation

This is my personal favorite part:

Here is the apology video he had to record:

"Dear Internet, I'm Sorry"


Oh yeah, also, here is my notice I received:

http://www.sluniverse.com/dmca.pdf

Liona Clio

Okay. I really want to apologize to everyone. Josh & Cris, you're right...I drew some parallels that really aren't valid.

I guess my blind posting might have something to do with my anger at Stoker's response. I'm sorry, but I don't happen to think my opinion in this matter is "Bullshit..Bullshit..BULLSHIT!"

I think there's a valid comparison between content theft, music piracy, and computer viruses. That common thread is "anyone determined enough to ______ can break through any security against it."

Fuck LL's competency. It's been proven for far too long that there are people out there long on technical skills and short on morals. Content theft will never stop as long as LL gives us the very freedoms to create that we prize. Sure, There has its content locked down and bans the criminals they find. And creatively? That's the reason why we're here and not There.

My opinion is just as valid as your opinion, Stoker. If you're gonna call BS, be prepared to smell what you're shoveling.

I'm off to count to 10...Sorry if this post angers you, but everyone has the right to vent.

Joshua Nightshade

Well I agree with you Liona, it is an eventuality. Regardless of whether or not you can torrent pieces of SL, that doesn't change the fact that ultimately LL can't technically stop it. They can however make more of an effort to stick up for content creators after it has been stolen.

I don't want more restrictive DRM, I want LL willing to support the people who made them famous in the first place.

Joshua Nightshade

Also Liona you're my cuddlebear and I love you.

Sophia Tantalus

I keep waiting for this to become an issue that bites LL in the ass... or at least the wallet. The fact that they don't remove infringing assets by UUID or ban repeat offenders falls far short of the hard line that most lawyers have advised other service providers to take. It's pretty clear to me that they're avoiding spending the money it will take to dedicate staff members to this. They're waiting for their hand to be forced, and most content creators don't have the money to take them to court for non-compliance in what is a probably a largely untested area. It almost makes me want to sic the Motion Picture Industry Association on certain infringers and see if LL's response differs when the big boys come to play.

Stroker Serpentine

I dont recall making any reference to an opinion being bullshit.

The point being that Linden Lab cant do anything to stop it _IS_bullshit however, because they can. They simply choose not to.

I am also not aware of anyone reselling ripped mp3's or computer viruses anywhere on the web. I could be wrong.

Joshua Nightshade

Stroker there is no technical solution to this. They can't stop people from ripping others' content. They can take a harder stance against it happening in the first place though, with harsher penalties. But there is no technical way to prevent the methods people are using (the ones that aren't exploits, obviously) to steal others' creations.

NeoBokrug Elytis

The DMCA and inworld theft has been affecting everyone I know as of late, and more recently it's been gaining more and more attention. I know content theft has been a problem from day one, but now it's easier than ever to steal someones shit. The Herald (not a source for real news), ran an article about an updated copybot, and how only a select few people had access to it. Unfortunately they're not moderating the comments on the article so you can go buy it at certain places fairly easy.

At the moment there's only a few solutions I can think of:

1) No more free accounts; or free accounts with ID verification, or tied to another account that has billing information. At some point, some place, a real life person is going to have to identify with LL. That way LL could possibly reverse the damages, purge the accounts, and refund people who bought the copied stuff as compensation for it getting deleted. I figure at some point they should put in the TOS that you will get utterly skull fucked if you steal other peoples content. It's not like you have any rights to your account as it is in the TOS. /rant

2) Open letter to Linden Labs II. I'm not the person to organize this, but I believe there's enough support now to make LL notice and do something about it. LL really needs a department of DMCA right now. Somehow I suspect they have just one linden working on it, and that's why it takes so long, and so little is done because it's not thorough enough. I think this is the best option right now.

3) Allow only "approved" clients to connect to the grid. This would wipe out most bots, which is sad because I know some people are working on legit bot projects. Even then it wouldn't stop intercept theft.


There are some problems. If stuff gets blackballed from the asset server, and people get banned there will be general unrest problems from people who purchased stuff that was stolen. Sucks to be them, but if LL refunds them from the offenders account, then there will be less of a problem.

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Stroker Serpentine

Does anyone remember this post by Cory Linden back in 2006?

One example is the concept of first use. Linden Lab is currently making changes to
make it easier to determine who originally created an asset and its creation
date. While much of this data currently
exists, it isn’t displayed in the UI. By
exposing this data, it will be much easier for residents in a conflict to be
able to clearly determine which texture or object was created first,
simplifying conflict resolution for all parties involved.

Another option – which we aren’t working on yet – would be
to offer either a registration or seal program for creators who are willing to
provide additional identifying information and who are committed to not
infringing on other residents’ content. If the finder makes it easy to search for content and locations that
participate in this program, then economic and social pressures combine to
reward creators who respect copyright and punish those who don’t.

Yet another idea – again, we’re not working on this yet,
just talking about it – would be to make copying of all content within SL
trivially easy, but to track appropriate metadata about who’s copied the
content and where it has been reused. Maybe even make that data publicly searchable. By making the act of copying easy, the
incentives to go around or hack the system are greatly reduced and the community
is better able to recognize and respect the wishes of creators. Plus, it would be much easier to implement
important concepts like “undo��? which are incredibly complicated or impossible
when trying to preserve uniqueness.

These are simply early steps and initial ideas – I expect
the community will have excellent suggestions as well. I look forward to seeing discussions and
suggestions as we continue to improve Second Life for all its residents.

Cory also offered this opinion...

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I have read the
Copyright Law of the United States – contained in Title 17 of the US
Code – and I encourage those wishing to better understand the issues to do
likewise. What is perhaps most
interesting about it is what it doesn’t have. Nowhere in the text does the word “steal��? appear. This is important, especially given that most
discussions about copying in Second Life tend to involve statements like “they
stole my textures.��? As Title 17 makes
clear, copying isn’t stealing. In fact, copying
isn’t necessarily a violation of copyright. Section 107 discusses a specific limitation on exclusive rights, namely
fair use.

Section 503 of Title 17 of US Copyright law states:

(c) Statutory Damages. —

(1) Except as provided by clause (2) of this subsection, the copyright owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or for which any two or more infringers are liable jointly and severally, in a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000 as the court considers just. For the purposes of this subsection, all the parts of a compilation or derivative work constitute one work.

(2) In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000.

"As Title 17 makes
clear, copying isn’t stealing." Cory Linden

I submit that copying or "infringing" for purposes of profiting IS stealing. And someday, someone, will hold LL's feet to the fire on this. Apparently this is the "Tao" of Linden Lab.

For those interested, you can read the entire post here: OpenGL, Copying, and Stealing « Official Linden Blog

Stroker Serpentine

I also find it particularly interesting that in this comment...

"Yet another idea – again, we’re not working on this yet, just talking about it – would be to make copying of all content within SL trivially easy, but to track appropriate metadata about who’s copied the content and where it has been reused.
" Cory Linden

..nowhere was the idea of tracking metadata and where it is being reused for purposes of DMCA resolution ever proposed.

One would think that Cory believed this capability were possible..Since he wrote the MAJORITY of the code.

Predreus

Cory seemed to be a driving factor on things being implemented, but now that he is gone, bringing up anything he said about proposed changes is a moot point as they probably will never come to fruition.

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Stroker Serpentine

I guess I am just a "glass half full" kinda guy.

Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours. Richard Bach

Tiana Whitfield

Erm I am a mentor and I am in that group and I have NEVER been passed any such pack or seen it passed.

So either everyone hates me or it was rather to general to state that its given out to EVERY mentor.

Edited to add: I have brought most of Cel's packs of SLEX, his work and services rock...bit paranoid in using them now


/me wonders how many ignore lists I make for admitting I am a mentor...

Io Zeno

But Stroker, you made the point yourself that the only time they got off their asses about this is when it costs them money.

Content creators having their work stolen isn't costing LL money... yet. If it got so bad that people started closing up shop, they might pay attention. But at this point you really can't blame people for throwing up their hands. LL just doesn't respond to their own consumers, not when they rant on forums, not when they collectively get together and sign a petition, only when it costs them money or gets them in legal trouble.

Until LL faces either loss of revenue or serious legal threats to their corporate welfare.... I dunno if anything will change.

I don't even know if they care about creators anymore. Open sourcing the whole thing seemed to be the plan from the start and Philip's whole "3D web" fantasy is still running the show.