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09-07-2012, 11:02 AM
| #101 (permalink) | ||
| syncing with reality     
splitting infinitives and
dealing with rogue apostrophes
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,464
My Mood:  SL Join Date: a while ago
Business: Satiated Desires Blog Entries: 1    | Quote:
Important to whom? LL don't give a flying fuck what we think in this matter. How many times have they back-pedalled on something like this before? The only thing I can think of is they changed their decision not to have a general discussion forum on the new forum. That's not quite the magnitude of what you're asking here. The new defect tool will make the tester's, managers and dev's lives easier - The devs and managers will love it because there'll be less bugs raised about things that only impact those pesky customers who should be grateful that they're only asked to pay an extortionate price for shoddy software and service and the testers who will have a better tool to log and monitor the defect resolution. As for a competitor - only blue mars made LL even slightly raise their game. There are competitors out there - InWorldz and Avination to name just two. The problem is that people aren't fucked off enough to move and give up the main features of sl - their inventory, their friends who won't move, the sheer number of people and things to do/see. apparently people move their bank accounts less times in their life than they get married, divorced or have kids - no matter how much of a better deal they could get elsewhere.. SL users seem to be like that on the whole, which is a shame but it's what LL has always banked on and it seems to be working for them.
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09-07-2012, 11:12 AM
| #103 (permalink) |
| Particle Laboratory Elf   Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hillcrest, San Diego, USA
Posts: 5,551
My Mood:  SL Join Date: Jan 15 2004
Business: Light Sorcery
| I wonder if Alexa just simply said "I want to do something other than JIRA for a while." and no one in the lab volunteered to take it over from her. |
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09-07-2012, 11:12 AM
| #104 (permalink) | |
| Lustful Cockmonster        *SLU Supporter*     
Unedited
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 51,807
My Mood:  SL Join Date: October 2004 Blog Entries: 1 | Please don't push bad management decisions onto the individual Lindens, there's no need for that.
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09-07-2012, 11:33 AM
| #105 (permalink) |
| AKA: Marita Mumfuzz *SLU Supporter* 
Mostly Lurking
Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swamps of SE GA.
Posts: 561
My Mood:  SL Join Date: Don't remember
Business: None , SL is for relaxin no work
Client: Phoenix , Rainbow , Dolphin , Cool VL | Reposting Innula's link from the LL forum here in case LL decides to remove it. I found it to be appropriate and funny. "Botgirl Questi has secured an interview with Bugsy Linden, who explains the thinking behind the plan." http://www.botgirl.com/2012/09/bugsy...C2%AE+Diary%29
__________________ I think politicians should be required to dress like race car drivers. That way we'd know who their corporate sponsors are. |
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09-07-2012, 11:56 AM
| #106 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Montreal
Posts: 143
SL Join Date: 2002 | Quote:
Corporate-speak, thy dulcet tones are so familiar...
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09-07-2012, 12:11 PM
| #107 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member *SLU Supporter* 
post_count++;
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,027
My Mood:  SL Join Date: 11/01/2005
Business: The Wastelands Client: Official Newest | Quote:
__________________ Tin Man Rant - Blog Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down! -- Cave Johnson | |
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09-07-2012, 12:37 PM
| #108 (permalink) |
| Member  Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66
SL Join Date: 2004 | But Bugsy, what if I want to 'worry my pretty little head' ?
__________________  http://slurl.com/secondlife/Callahans%20Isle/56/64/232 |
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09-07-2012, 01:20 PM
| #110 (permalink) |
| Coin-operated  Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
| Below, in three long posts, is a log from Oz's opensource dev meeting yesterday afternoon, with some of my bolding and comments interspersed. I had to leave before the end, but by that point it appeared to be drifting from the Jira change to the TPV development matters that are usual for that meeting. [2012/09/06 13:03] Oz Linden: HiOz appears to be saying that the reason for the change is to reduce "unhelpful distracting and unrelated comments" that kind of skipped my notice because, at the time, it was what I'd been assuming. Then, as I posted more recently above, I decided that was just too petty a reason and didn't explain the inability to even view anybody else's bug reports. Now I don't know what to think. Can they really be that dim? ... Continued ... |
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09-07-2012, 01:21 PM
| #111 (permalink) |
| Coin-operated Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
| ... Continued ... [2012/09/06 13:11] Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad): can't you guys just keep visibility, and restrict comments to those who reported the issue, and any groups that are authorized to comment?Apparently they're accepting civil feedback. Personally, I haven't decided if it's worth sending any, but I guess it's an offer. ... Continued ... |
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09-07-2012, 01:21 PM
| #112 (permalink) |
| Coin-operated Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
| Continued... [2012/09/06 13:23] Siana Gearz: special treatment for well known jira trolls didn't work well, did it?I don't read Alexa to be saying that those five years have sent her over the edge, but rather that she knows what Jira is for and can tell if the new approach needs tweaking. [2012/09/06 13:27] Qie Niangao: Can you share what internal process metrics you'll be monitoring, to tell whether the change worked as intended?So, those with current Contributor Agreements may get some access (or something). [2012/09/06 13:34] Siana Gearz: but the new jira policy is effective immediately, right? |
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09-07-2012, 01:26 PM
| #113 (permalink) |
| Lustful Cockmonster *SLU Supporter*
Unedited
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 51,807
My Mood: SL Join Date: October 2004 Blog Entries: 1 | The JIRA is Alexa's personal project, she busts her ass on it. I can't see this being a decision she had a hand in or would have even asked for. Rather this strikes me as Oz being a little whiny baby, tired of having to listen to complaints when he says something asinine (like the above, where he more or less vocalised a threat over "think why we need to do this") and as LL is organised into fiefdoms where Lord Manager controls his domain he just made a change and that's that. Nice chatting, run along now. |
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09-07-2012, 01:57 PM
| #114 (permalink) | |||
| ... 
Curmudgeon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,364
SL Join Date: 9/25/2005 | I think I'm past caring. If that was their goal, well... they succeeded.
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09-07-2012, 02:23 PM
| #115 (permalink) |
| gone  Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: in the home I haven't built yet
Posts: 2,317
My Mood:  | OK, that clears things up considerably, Qie, thanks much. Here's my takeaways: 1. The reason for the change (at least in Oz's mind) is "Unhelpful distracting and unrelated comments added to issues" 2. Release notes will be restructured to put text in-line describing issues, instead of links to JIRA entries 3. They are willing to work on giving those with CAs some sort of JIRA access 4. Alexa and Oz are unaware that any scripter, teacher, estate manager or other responsible resident who does NOT have a CA has any legitimate need to know about reported bugs. 4. The attendees of that meeting were told that Alexa is willing to receive notecards, and Oz is willing to receive email, which calmly contributes to bettering this solution. However, I'm not sure they would welcome comments from the non-CA'd hoi polloi. Qie, your feeling on that? |
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09-07-2012, 02:32 PM
| #116 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,083
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09-07-2012, 02:37 PM
| #118 (permalink) | |
| Coin-operated Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
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That said, I very much doubt that volume of response would carry any weight here, or at least not as much as a good long laundry list of irrefutable reasons why the new approach is problematic. My hunch--and it's only a hunch--is that neither Oz nor Alexa is responsible for this decision, and they may indeed share with other Lindens some qualms about it. If so, presented with compelling enough arguments, they might be enlisted to lobby for a reversal, or at least a change. I don't know enough about the org chart to guess whether they could approach anybody empowered to make a change without going around their own management. | |
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09-07-2012, 02:39 PM
| #119 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member 
Making Mesh
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 756
My Mood:  | Quote:
 I just don't understand why they have to limit search/visibility just to get rid of JIRA trolls/drama llamas/tinfoil hat wearers. | |
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09-07-2012, 02:40 PM
| #120 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member 
Praying for intelligent life
somewhere up in space, 'cause
there's bugger all down here
on Earth
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,694
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09-07-2012, 03:07 PM
| #121 (permalink) |
| Miss StarLight 
The little dabbler
Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Variable
Posts: 2,673
SL Join Date: 06/12/08 | I think we can safely say that neither Alexa nor Oskar proposed this change - someone higher up in the company did. I think that both of them are stepping out of Linden-speak as far as they are able to for now. I will be preparing a list of suggestions for improvements, and reasons for them over the next few days - let's give these guys (and especially Alexa who did not need to turn up) a bit of support. |
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09-07-2012, 03:13 PM
| #122 (permalink) |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Colorado
Posts: 14
My Mood:  SL Join Date: October 2003
Business: Luskwood Creatures | it does seem that way... (in re: causing folks to not care.) Less "support expense" I suppose. It does seem that the genesis of this was folks who wanted to use the JIRA as a rant point, but I can hardly see that as rationale to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And yeah Tengu (and I realize I'm putting it lightly) - yet another morale hit for the resident body. What gets to me in the logs above is: Oz and Alexa both realize that this is going to cause some problems. Oz talks about emotional detachment. But I get the feeling that this whole thing is an administrative emotional reaction, that Oz himself might be party to. Oh well, figures. EDIT: I do know some Lindens were caught by surprise on this, but yes, again, we see "the change is done, it's not going back" - (If you look at glassdoor.com, it seems that a lot of LL employees feel the same way as, and are treated simlarly to the way residents are by upper management.) |
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09-07-2012, 03:16 PM
| #123 (permalink) | |
| ...
Curmudgeon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,364
SL Join Date: 9/25/2005 | Quote:
There's no more 'benefit of the doubt' from me as far as the Lab is concerned. | |
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09-07-2012, 03:24 PM
| #124 (permalink) |
| Senior Member 
Mayan Time Lord
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cali
Posts: 1,992
My Mood:  SL Join Date: 10/12/2006
Business: [H]arsh Styles
Client: Always changing, and too lazy to edit. | Well it's good to see maybe, eventually, at least some visibility will return. LL doesn't seem to understand content creators are every much as legitimate developers as they are. Hiding all the bugs away is simply going to make things harder on everyone. |
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09-07-2012, 03:25 PM
| #125 (permalink) | |||
| That Bitch *SLU Supporter* 
Innocent as far as you know
Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Online
Posts: 6,197
My Mood:  SL Join Date: late 04... that account is deleted now | and I one fell swoop LL jusmps up their own collective ass... SL is nothing like most video games... Taking as a comparison, the codebase and range of interaction available in the recently released GW2 vs the same in SL.... you could probably drop GW2 into SL's back pocket and never notice a bulge. because of it's large base, and larger levels of interactive components, it's prone to many more bugs. Because that volume is increased, methods to handle it were quickly instituted to leverage community participation in not only reporting (since testing was no longer sufficient) but also into finding workarounds. It made most bugs livable, since in many cases you had both knowledge (so you could avoid them in many cases) and workarounds (so you could still accomplish what you were trying to do). First Mistake: not instituting a simpler method of searching Result: far more duplicates than necessary Second Mistake: not reporting the (proposed) fix method Result: "fixes" that caused more bugs, and inability to understand what the expected behavior was Third Mistake: not punishing misbehavior. Result: several high profile comment flame wars, employee and user dissatisfaction. Fourth Mistake: killing voting: Result: encouragement of useless comments detailing unrelated gripes and personal political agendas THIS Mistake: Result: Massive duplication of effort, which is going to lead to more abusive treatment, followed by a projected sharp decline in reporting anything at all. Inability to search will mean known problems will be brand new every day to another user, and they will have no available workarounds provided. Side Effects: More negative word of mouth as users problems go unresolved, or even when resolved, unknown as being resolved, or how. The wiki, which details a great amount of discovered and publicly disseminated solutions, will quickly become out of date and largely useless as a problem solving resource, since it will rely solely on individual discovery of new bugs/workarounds/fixes, and will rely largely on hearsay rather than supported facts. I imagine some of the drama that now infests the jira will find it's way their further poisoning the well End result? Seeing the large degree to which SL relies on word of mouth, this is a PR nightmare; particularly when you consider the degree to which SL has recently encouraged social media integration, and it's partnership with Steam.... The LAST thing they want to do is push all their bug complaints into the public domain, when they are relying on that same public for sales. When you rely on the public to do your advertising, and try to make that easier to do for the public, you really don't want to give yourself the reputation for being the most bug ridden piece of software out there.
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