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**NeoBokrug Elytis** · 08-12-2012, 07:49 AM

This JIRA is the result of last weeks rollout. Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08)

What it amounts to is some regions DoSing you at about 700kbps a second. You can find out by opening your Statistics Bar by pressint CTRL-SHIFT-1. If you're not currently rezzing stuff (as in everything around you is loaded), and you have high kpbs, you're affected. If you want to avoid this find a region that doesn't do this to you. Keep in mind that the other region has to be out of your draw distance. That is if you see it, it'll keep sending you a hojillion packets.

Restarting a region DOES NOT fix the issue. We've just got to wait for a patch.

p.s. Lookin' for votes and watches, educating those who have tiered data.

**Void** · 08-12-2012, 08:06 AM

ouch, stay away from RC Magnum

**NeoBokrug Elytis** · 08-12-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Void

ouch, stay away from RC Magnum

This is actually the release servers too.

Andromeda Rage · 08-12-2012, 09:25 AM

Yes, I have encountered this. I was wondering WTF was going on, thanks. (ETA: voted.

)

ETA2: Ugh, I get the bad feeling a lot of people are gonna get dinged on their data caps because of this. So many SLers are just unaware of technical things like this and may be in for a nasty surprise later. Especially those who hang out in possibly-affected popular places for hours at a time. (BTW: Junkyard Blues seems to be affected by this, a word of warning for those who hang out there.)

Yuukie Onmura · 08-12-2012, 10:25 AM

extra evil: what about ISPs that do not throttle you when you reach your limit... but start charging extra? that could get *really* painful.

EricCastanea · 08-12-2012, 10:57 AM

Yea, thanks for pointing that out. I've been noticing something weird, but couldn't put my finger on it.

**Trasee Darkwatch** · 08-12-2012, 11:09 AM

Ouch! I hope they fix that quickly.
Voted.

**NeoBokrug Elytis** · 08-12-2012, 04:19 PM

I spent this morning trying to figure out the issue. Here's my best guess:

If you look at a region that is to the south and west of your current region, and you can see into it -- one of two things will happen. One, you won't be able to see into it. Or Two, you can see into it, and it will kill your bandwith.

What you could do for now is crank your draw distance down and never look so you can see the region to the south and west of your current region.

Tiffy Vella · 08-12-2012, 04:42 PM

Aghhh--thanks so much for explaining this...I had my connection 'shaped' (ie I was sent back to dial-up speed) a few days ago, a good week before the months plan was up. We exceeded our usual usage, by heaps, and way too early.

If this continues, be prepared to have any Australian friends occasionally disappear on you, as most of us are probably on monthly limited interweb plans.

I've bought an extra data block to see me through the week, so will go test out what's happening on my home patch of mainland.

Andromeda Rage · 08-12-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis

I spent this morning trying to figure out the issue. Here's my best guess:

If you look at a region that is to the south and west of your current region, and you can see into it -- one of two things will happen. One, you won't be able to see into it. Or Two, you can see into it, and it will kill your bandwith.

What you could do for now is crank your draw distance down and never look so you can see the region to the south and west of your current region.

Wow, yeah, I read this post and went experimenting and it does seem to be the case. As soon as I cranked my draw distance so I could see into a region west of me (or I crept up to the border), the packet flood began. Backing off the draw distance or retreating from the border stopped the flood.

Looking into just a single sim south of me (well away from the western sim), I couldn't actually see anything inside even with the draw distance up.

(ETA: yeah it seems to be the SW region doing it.)

Andromeda Rage · 08-12-2012, 06:10 PM

Actually, after doing a little more testing, it looks like to me it's the sims southwest *AND* southeast from you. If the corner of either of those sims is within your draw distance, you get hosed.

Tiffy Vella · 08-12-2012, 06:54 PM

I've just logged in to test this out and find similar to what Andromeda said...

At 112m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 50-60 kbps.
Turning towards the sim to the south, it spikes up to 150ish, then back (normal).

At 152m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 650-750 kbps.

At 264m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 1199-1200 ish kbps. Scarey.

At 1024, it went well over 4,000, but I'd rarely crank it up to that.

These are all up high, with nothing special going on, and about 4 people on the sim.

I'm on a LeTigre, with at least one Magnum to one side

**Void** · 08-12-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis

This is actually the release servers too.

I was under the impression from the jira, that it's RC Magnum Regions you can see into.... it would affect that RC and any region in draw distance of it's border

Abdul · 08-12-2012, 07:11 PM

I don't think this is new stuff lol

I've always had an issue of over using SL and getting charged extra! lol
I don't know how it goes in the US...but in Canada...an IPS is only allowed to charge you up to 55$ extra for extra usage.

**Trasee Darkwatch** · 08-12-2012, 07:14 PM

In the US, there are no limits to what the ISP can charge, to my knowledge.

Ramen Jedburgh · 08-12-2012, 09:29 PM

Hey, its just preperation for the future, when caps are so low that you have no choice but to stop using Netflic and MMOs and Second Life completely.

But don't worry, your ISP, for a slight upcharge, will five you access to Verizon Life and World of AT&T, both will not count towards your cap!

Khamon · 08-12-2012, 09:39 PM

WHAT PART OF SHUT UP AND PAY YOUR DAMN TIER DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND1/

Tess Whitcroft · 08-12-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis

I spent this morning trying to figure out the issue. Here's my best guess:

If you look at a region that is to the south and west of your current region, and you can see into it -- one of two things will happen. One, you won't be able to see into it. Or Two, you can see into it, and it will kill your bandwith.

What you could do for now is crank your draw distance down and never look so you can see the region to the south and west of your current region.

The land I own is the Northeast cornet of the sim I am in so I never noticed it. So I did an experiment.

Looking into sims to the North and East: Bandwidth 55-80
Looking into sims to the South and West: Bandwidth 550-700

Tess

Darien Caldwell · 08-12-2012, 10:45 PM

I reported some additional findings to the JIRA, which seem to give some insight into the 'invisible regions' that is often associated with this issue.

I have a feeling the two problems are related.

Andromeda Rage · 08-13-2012, 09:22 PM

What I'm kinda wondering is, why hasn't LL done an emergency rollback to the previous server versions while they work on fixing the issue? Something of this magnitude warrants it, IMO.

Innula Zenovka · 08-13-2012, 09:38 PM

They're very unwilling to roll back. Oskar Linden explained a while ago, answering criticism about not rolling something else back

Quote:

Rollbacks are very costly for a number of reasons. We don't roll back lightly. Every release to the grid is a very complicted process. Rollbacks are reserved for content loss issues or server crashes above a certain threshold. This issue, while frustrating, was easily handled by support. Content was not lost, there were no griefing exploits, and regions weren't crashing. It wasn't an emergency.

I'm not saying a roll-back would be unjustified, just that LL really don't like doing them.

Chalice Yao · 08-14-2012, 05:46 AM

People use SL with data caps? The normal client?
Really?

I mean -really-?

SL is about one of the most network intensive things you can run for recreation. When I tried my squid texture cache a few weeks ago, it took me about a day or two to fill it up to around 2 gigs of image data. That's just textures of content, from a one-digit number of (albeit complex) sims. We've not even taken sounds, primdata, in-world object updates etc. into the equation yet, which I don't have a number for.

If people haven't gone over their limit with current data plans, I doubt this will make them go above that limit.

Qie Niangao · 08-14-2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

If people haven't gone over their limit with current data plans, I doubt this will make them go above that limit.

But this bug is inflating the usage by an order of magnitude. So it's not surprising that it can be make-or-break, if SL is the main driver for setting one's monthly data plan ("about one of the most network intensive things you can run for recreation").

Also, there are parts of the world where it's practically impossible to get residential internet connectivity without data caps. Technology backwaters like, you know, Canada.

Tiffy Vella · 08-14-2012, 06:32 AM

and Australia.

Innula Zenovka · 08-14-2012, 06:40 AM

In some places people don't have much choice, Chalice. I don't know how it is now, but certainly when I started in SL, I knew someone in Belgium who regularly used to find herself going over her limit, and she said unlimited packages simply weren't available there. She simply had to be careful about how many hours she spent in-world, and clear her cache as infrequently as possible.

Even in the UK, where we're pretty well-off for broadband, it's only comparatively recently that unlimited downloads have become the norm for home broadband (it used to be one of my ISP's selling points that all their packages were unlimited), and still most starter packages have a download limit.

08-12-2012, 07:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
NeoBokrug Elytis Senior Member *SLU Supporter* post_count++; Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,031 My Mood: SL Join Date: 11/01/2005 Business: The Wastelands Client: Official Newest	Got an ISP data cap and play SL? Prepare to exceed your limit. This JIRA is the result of last weeks rollout. Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08) What it amounts to is some regions DoSing you at about 700kbps a second. You can find out by opening your Statistics Bar by pressint CTRL-SHIFT-1. If you're not currently rezzing stuff (as in everything around you is loaded), and you have high kpbs, you're affected. If you want to avoid this find a region that doesn't do this to you. Keep in mind that the other region has to be out of your draw distance. That is if you see it, it'll keep sending you a hojillion packets. Restarting a region DOES NOT fix the issue. We've just got to wait for a patch. p.s. Lookin' for votes and watches, educating those who have tiered data. __________________ Tin Man Rant - Blog Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down! -- Cave Johnson

08-12-2012, 09:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
Andromeda Rage LEMONY CAKE! srsly? Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The Moon Posts: 682 My Mood:	Yes, I have encountered this. I was wondering WTF was going on, thanks. (ETA: voted. ) ETA2: Ugh, I get the bad feeling a lot of people are gonna get dinged on their data caps because of this. So many SLers are just unaware of technical things like this and may be in for a nasty surprise later. Especially those who hang out in possibly-affected popular places for hours at a time. (BTW: Junkyard Blues seems to be affected by this, a word of warning for those who hang out there.) Last edited by Andromeda Rage; 08-12-2012 at 09:39 AM.

08-12-2012, 11:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
Trasee Darkwatch Curiouser and Curiouser *SLU Supporter* Following the White Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The Mad Hatter's Tea Party Posts: 11,783 My Mood: SL Join Date: 7/3/2006 (rejoin 7/16/2009) Client: Exodus, Dolphin, Firestorm	Ouch! I hope they fix that quickly. Voted. __________________ \| Trasee's DeviantART and Journal \| ______________________________________________ (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

08-12-2012, 06:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tiffy Vella Omnomnomnivore off with the fairies Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 825 SL Join Date: 3/23/2007 Business: Eclectica Client: Firestorm & V3	I've just logged in to test this out and find similar to what Andromeda said... At 112m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 50-60 kbps. Turning towards the sim to the south, it spikes up to 150ish, then back (normal). At 152m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 650-750 kbps. At 264m DD looking in towards Sinaburoe I use 1199-1200 ish kbps. Scarey. At 1024, it went well over 4,000, but I'd rarely crank it up to that. These are all up high, with nothing special going on, and about 4 people on the sim. I'm on a LeTigre, with at least one Magnum to one side Last edited by Tiffy Vella; 08-12-2012 at 07:02 PM.

08-12-2012, 09:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ramen Jedburgh Ginger Supremacist Heya ^_^ Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Illinois, USA Posts: 1,854 My Mood: SL Join Date: 3/9/2006	Hey, its just preperation for the future, when caps are so low that you have no choice but to stop using Netflic and MMOs and Second Life completely. But don't worry, your ISP, for a slight upcharge, will five you access to Verizon Life and World of AT&T, both will not count towards your cap! __________________ -- Ramen Jedburgh Abusively Cute ^_^

08-12-2012, 10:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
Yuukie Onmura Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 59 My Mood:	extra evil: what about ISPs that do not throttle you when you reach your limit... but start charging extra? that could get really painful.

08-12-2012, 10:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
EricCastanea Senior Member Fast! Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 188	Yea, thanks for pointing that out. I've been noticing something weird, but couldn't put my finger on it.

08-12-2012, 04:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
NeoBokrug Elytis Senior Member *SLU Supporter* post_count++; Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,031 My Mood: SL Join Date: 11/01/2005 Business: The Wastelands Client: Official Newest	I spent this morning trying to figure out the issue. Here's my best guess: If you look at a region that is to the south and west of your current region, and you can see into it -- one of two things will happen. One, you won't be able to see into it. Or Two, you can see into it, and it will kill your bandwith. What you could do for now is crank your draw distance down and never look so you can see the region to the south and west of your current region.

08-12-2012, 04:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tiffy Vella Omnomnomnivore off with the fairies Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 825 SL Join Date: 3/23/2007 Business: Eclectica Client: Firestorm & V3	Aghhh--thanks so much for explaining this...I had my connection 'shaped' (ie I was sent back to dial-up speed) a few days ago, a good week before the months plan was up. We exceeded our usual usage, by heaps, and way too early. If this continues, be prepared to have any Australian friends occasionally disappear on you, as most of us are probably on monthly limited interweb plans. I've bought an extra data block to see me through the week, so will go test out what's happening on my home patch of mainland.

08-12-2012, 06:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
Andromeda Rage LEMONY CAKE! srsly? Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The Moon Posts: 682 My Mood:	Actually, after doing a little more testing, it looks like to me it's the sims southwest AND southeast from you. If the corner of either of those sims is within your draw distance, you get hosed.

08-12-2012, 07:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Abdul Senior Member Meaw Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 111 SL Join Date: 2005 Client: Official	I don't think this is new stuff lol I've always had an issue of over using SL and getting charged extra! lol I don't know how it goes in the US...but in Canada...an IPS is only allowed to charge you up to 55$ extra for extra usage.

08-12-2012, 07:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
Trasee Darkwatch Curiouser and Curiouser *SLU Supporter* Following the White Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The Mad Hatter's Tea Party Posts: 11,783 My Mood: SL Join Date: 7/3/2006 (rejoin 7/16/2009) Client: Exodus, Dolphin, Firestorm	In the US, there are no limits to what the ISP can charge, to my knowledge.

08-12-2012, 09:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
Khamon Aspiring Harpist *SLU Supporter* Thumbs Up Sweetie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,219 My Mood: SL Join Date: November, 2003 Blog Entries: 1	WHAT PART OF SHUT UP AND PAY YOUR DAMN TIER DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND1/ __________________ A Journey Through the World of Lever Harping

08-12-2012, 10:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
Darien Caldwell Senior Member Mayan Time Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 2,004 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/12/2006 Business: [H]arsh Styles Client: Always changing, and too lazy to edit.	I reported some additional findings to the JIRA, which seem to give some insight into the 'invisible regions' that is often associated with this issue. I have a feeling the two problems are related. __________________ [H]arsh Styles

08-13-2012, 09:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Andromeda Rage LEMONY CAKE! srsly? Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The Moon Posts: 682 My Mood:	What I'm kinda wondering is, why hasn't LL done an emergency rollback to the previous server versions while they work on fixing the issue? Something of this magnitude warrants it, IMO.

08-14-2012, 05:46 AM	#22 (permalink)
Chalice Yao The Purple HEYOO! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somewhere purple, Germany Posts: 7,672 My Mood: SL Join Date: 20. January 2007 Client: NaCl	People use SL with data caps? The normal client? Really? I mean -really-? SL is about one of the most network intensive things you can run for recreation. When I tried my squid texture cache a few weeks ago, it took me about a day or two to fill it up to around 2 gigs of image data. That's just textures of content, from a one-digit number of (albeit complex) sims. We've not even taken sounds, primdata, in-world object updates etc. into the equation yet, which I don't have a number for. If people haven't gone over their limit with current data plans, I doubt this will make them go above that limit. __________________ "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

08-14-2012, 06:32 AM	#24 (permalink)
Tiffy Vella Omnomnomnivore off with the fairies Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 825 SL Join Date: 3/23/2007 Business: Eclectica Client: Firestorm & V3	and Australia.

08-14-2012, 06:40 AM	#25 (permalink)
Innula Zenovka Nasty Brit Wants things Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,976 SL Join Date: 17 June 2007 Business: Something Spunky	In some places people don't have much choice, Chalice. I don't know how it is now, but certainly when I started in SL, I knew someone in Belgium who regularly used to find herself going over her limit, and she said unlimited packages simply weren't available there. She simply had to be careful about how many hours she spent in-world, and clear her cache as infrequently as possible. Even in the UK, where we're pretty well-off for broadband, it's only comparatively recently that unlimited downloads have become the norm for home broadband (it used to be one of my ISP's selling points that all their packages were unlimited), and still most starter packages have a download limit.

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