Second Life Images: Art? Photography? Other? - SLUniverse Forums
Navigation » SLUniverse Forums > Virtual World Discussion > General SL Discussion » Second Life Images: Art? Photography? Other?


General SL Discussion Discuss topics related to Second Life

 
Sponsor:
LIONHEART - We Have Your Land
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Second Life Images: Art? Photography? Other?

I've read some fascinating blog posts lately in response to comments that images taken in Second Life aren't "art" and further more, that they aren't photography, they are screen captures.

There is a really interesting post about this on Video Game Tourism. The Art of in-game Photography | Video Game Tourism

Quote:
The art of in-game-photography is still in its infancy, but it seems obvious that, with constantly increasing photorealism and the popularity of open-world-games, more and more photographers will also look for inspiration and picture opportunities in virtual worlds. Games are places as well as entertainment; and after all, as Elliott Erwitt’s quote at the beginning reminded us: Photography has little to do with the things we see -, and everything to do with the way we see them.
Now I'm in the process of jotting down my own thoughts on that for a personal post, but I thought I'd open it up for a discussion as well.

A few snippets to consider:

From Whiskey Monday, whose "My Tweets As Pictures" series has been truly inspiring and really opened my eyes to how SL photography can be a powerful messaging tool, this fabulous quote that really says it all.

Single Frame Stories Whiskey Shots

Quote:
I have no issue calling my work at. It's created in much the same way my best writing is created - from a place in me that feels rather than sees. While I've turned those feelings into words quite easily, creating a visual just takes the process a step further. I like to think that the image enriches the story I'm telling, and offers a dimension that words don't always reach. And for me personally, there are times when the feelings I want to express are too difficult to share with words.

The deliciously tongue in cheek post from Honour McMillan

Wherein the Intrepid Explorer Realizes That She Doesn’t Take Photographs in Second Life Honour's Post Menopausal View (of Second Life)

Quote:
What is needed is a new term that accurately describes what I’m doing. Different kinds of images are taken in various professions which don’t use a lens – the x-ray is one. The word “imaging” is used often in areas like the medical disciplines (magnetic resonance imaging for example). Imaging, therefore, should be part of the new term.

Somehow the fact that what I’m doing is computer-aided obviously needs to be highlighted. In addition, the reality that I’m in a virtual world should be acknowledged.

I’ll think about it and try and avoid a term or acronym that will offend anybody. I’d hate to wind up with something like P.A.I.N.T. and have to apologize to a whole other group.

Carrie Lexington demonstrating the difference between a screen shot and a photograph

SLifeFantastic!: The difference between a screenshot and a Virtual World Photograph

and her thoughts on Art and Creativity.

SLifeFantastic!: Misconceptions about Art and Creativity, and what is Art anyways?

Quote:
The finished product, fabulous as it may be, is really secondary to the Creative Process. To me, that is what art and creative expression is all about, the process, the journey that leads the artist to their completed work. Every one of us, even me and you, has it in us to make our own path, create something beautiful and meaningful and call it Art.
So, are images taken in Second Life art?
Is it photography?

Is it something else completely that needs new terminology?
__________________
"Words mean things" ~ Bronxelf
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it only reached the end of the bar." ~ Edward R. Murrow

Last edited by Pancake; 08-10-2012 at 04:15 PM.
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,163
First you must define what art is in the non-virtual world.



Oh, and this:

KT Kingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,165
My Mood:

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Considering it can often require inspiration, preparation, design, theme, and a specific aesthetic goal; yes. Captures taken in SL are no more or less art than any other photographer's work. (^_^)

Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
 
Darien Caldwell's Avatar
LLvangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cali
Posts: 3,886
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 10/12/2006
Business: [H]arsh Styles
Client: Always changing, and too lazy to edit.
I agree it's Art. I don't agree it's Photography.

My own personal definition of Photography is real-world subjects in real-world settings.
__________________
[H]arsh Styles

The truth doesn't care if you agree with it or disagree with it. It continues to be regardless, unchanged. Denying the truth is only lying to yourself. - Darien Caldwell
Darien Caldwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 04:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,165
My Mood:

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
That makes sorta sense. New word? Machinography? Pixography? =^-^=
Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
Indentured Servant
 
NyteWytch's Avatar
easily distract---er what?
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Blissful Ignorance
Posts: 1,134
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 07/03/2004
Client: official

Awards: 1
Special Achievement In Hello Kitty Trolling 
SLography?
__________________
I need to rethink my life choices - Cristiano

Only on SLU can there be an in-depth discussion about the history of packaging for pre-mixed cookie dough and its potential application in vaginally mediated theft. - Nemo Quisquam

NyteWytch is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darien Caldwell View Post
I agree it's Art. I don't agree it's Photography.

My own personal definition of Photography is real-world subjects in real-world settings.
I can't say that I agree with you.

I don't mind if others don't call it photography, but I will continue to.

I don't feel the need for it to be real world subjects in real world settings because so many of the same premises, and now tools, apply.

From framing the shot to depth of field, there are many parallels, I'm not adverse to the word photography at all.
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,165
My Mood:

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
What's the word for that fantasy/sci-fi art stuff people do in Blender and such. Like, when they put tons of detail into a single 3D scene? (o.o)
Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorturedPolygon View Post
SLography?

Except it's far broader than just Second Life.

Some of the images on Virtual Geographic, everything from Minecraft to Skyrim

VIRTUAL GEOGRAPHIC tumblr

and the Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/virtualgeographic/
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
Nemo me impune lacessit

*SLU Supporter*
 
Lucifer Baphomet's Avatar
We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation. -Voltaire
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Paisley, Cradle of the Stewarts
Posts: 25,436
My Mood:
Business: Radio Free Darkmere

Awards: 1
Most Erotic Salma Hayek Youtube Clip 
Now about calling them what they are?

Screenshots.

Yah, some screenshots take more planning and stuff, some might even be art.

But they're still screenshots.
Lucifer Baphomet is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Users Disagreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,165
My Mood:

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
That's kind of akin to calling all photography snapshots. Something with a deep sense of aesthetic effort and possibly even post processing goes beyond being a simple "shot". (o.o)
Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
Now about calling them what they are?

Screenshots.

Yah, some screenshots take more planning and stuff, some might even be art.

But they're still screenshots.
This is factually correct, they are screen shots. I would have no problem someone calling their own work screen shots.

However, I can see why someone would want to differentiate between a print screen of an error message they send to their IT person and the work and artistic eye that goes into some of the images that come from virtual worlds.

If they want to call what they do photography, or perhaps more accurately virtual photography, I don't see why they shouldn't.
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
Indentured Servant
 
NyteWytch's Avatar
easily distract---er what?
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Blissful Ignorance
Posts: 1,134
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 07/03/2004
Client: official

Awards: 1
Special Achievement In Hello Kitty Trolling 
I played around a bit with Daz3D/Poser/Blender/Lightwave/too many other 3D apps. When I would try to explain the pictures to laymen I would usually use a term like computer graphics (CG). And when they would give a confused half smile I would just offer up "You know, like Pixar/Disney animation stuffz".

While I personally have no problem with people calling it photography (and see similarities), if they took those snapshots to photography communities it would end like most PRS troll threads here.

Even at DeviantArt; Poser/Daz3d/Blender do not get "rep" for the awesome pictures they produce.

tldr: art snob is snob
NyteWytch is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
3 Users Agreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
That's kind of akin to calling all photography snapshots. Something with a deep sense of aesthetic effort and possibly even post processing goes beyond being a simple "shot". (o.o)
It's also like saying that the photograph is the image you see in the viewfinder of a camera.

ETA: and presumably, a photograph once imported into a photo editing program and cropped and colour and contrast corrected, ceases to be a photograph and becomes a screen shot. What does a photograph, traditionally cropped, colour corrected, and dodged and burned under an enlarger, become?

Last edited by KT Kingsley; 08-10-2012 at 05:01 PM.
KT Kingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
Image is Everything
 
Evola's Avatar
Je suis slogan
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Outskirts of Cirque Du Hades
Posts: 4,011
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2/29/2008

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Renderography?

Part of me says it isn't really photography, though on the other hand people could say the same thing about a lot of music today, as much of it is made without the use of any "real" instruments involved. I do think photography describes it better than "imaging", people comparing virtual photography to x-ray imaging comes across as twat-ish. If it's a case where their's no artistic input involved, the word screenshot does just fine.
Evola is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorturedPolygon View Post
I played around a bit with Daz3D/Poser/Blender/Lightwave/too many other 3D apps. When I would try to explain the pictures to laymen I would usually use a term like computer graphics (CG). And when they would give a confused half smile I would just offer up "You know, like Pixar/Disney animation stuffz".

While I personally have no problem with people calling it photography (and see similarities), if they took those snapshots to photography communities it would end like most PRS troll threads here.

Even at DeviantArt; Poser/Daz3d/Blender do not get "rep" for the awesome pictures they produce.

tldr: art snob is snob

Thank you so much for this post, it really touches on some of what's rattling in the back of my brain, namely that terminology and people in general need time to adjust to technology.

I wonder if when film and cameras were invented, if painters had issue with what the images were called and whether or not photographs were art?

I presume similar disputes exist between those who use film and a dark room when many photographers went digital.

In a generation, perhaps some of the tools we use to create art will be common place and widely accepted.
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancake View Post
[] I wonder if when film and cameras were invented, if painters had issue with what the images were called and whether or not photographs were art?

I presume similar disputes exist between those who use film and a dark room when many photographers went digital.

In a generation, perhaps some of the tools we use to create art will be common place and widely accepted.
Yes, and those issues are still argued.
KT Kingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Laughed:
3 Users Agreed:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
Eternal n00b
Who? Me?
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,542
My Mood:
Client: Restrained Love Viewer (v2.8.3.5)
I made "screenshots" with my Brownie Starmite camera, and many SL snapshots are just that. But when I find a certain camera angle, a lighting combination, a pose or accidental moment, and a capture that I know can be post-processed however little or much as is needed to be pleasing to me, I have created art.
Brianna Ort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 05:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,165
My Mood:

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
A painter can only be all uppity about the word art when they go back to nature bound pigments on cave walls. (=_=)
Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
Eternal n00b
Who? Me?
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,542
My Mood:
Client: Restrained Love Viewer (v2.8.3.5)
It also chaps my cookies that photorealistic illustration whether using traditional tools or digital programs is dismissed as non-art.
Brianna Ort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,163
Where I live, painters are people who apply synthetically bound synthetic pigments to house walls.
KT Kingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
Curiouser and Curiouser

*SLU Supporter*
 
Trasee Darkwatch's Avatar
Following the White Rabbit
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Mad Hatter's Tea Party
Posts: 13,814
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 7/3/2006 (rejoin 7/16/2009)
Business: TD Creations
Client: Firestorm

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Winner 
If you really look into SL "photography" (or whatever term you want to use) it is a lot more complex than a simple snapshot. Sure, you could just take snapshots without any effort, just like you can take a camera in RL and take a picture without any effort. For those, I would call them snapshots. I wouldn't put it down or anything, but you can tell a difference.

Then you can get into the intricacies of Windlight settings, shadows, poses, post-processing, and so on. This is where the snapshot starts to pass more into artistic qualities. It is not easy to do, just like I'm sure it isn't easy with RL pictures that deal with lighting, exposure, poses, post-processing, and whatever other things are needed for RL photography.

I've been dabbling with it myself for quite a while, and I have fun doing it. I do consider it an art form, one that I'm a novice with. It bothers me when people say that it takes no effort, like taking a picture requires more effort. So, I may not have created my avatar, but I did tailor it to my desires. The photographer didn't create their photo subject, they only "tailored" him or her to what they wanted as well.

Oh, and if you want to see someone who does some great art from SL, check out this DeviantArt Gallery. smartdog123ca on deviantART
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination
______________________________________________
| Trasee's DeviantART | Trasee's Furventures |
Trasee Darkwatch is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Users Said Thanks :
Old 08-10-2012, 05:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Phoebe Avro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 561
Business: The House of Avro
Art is in they eye of the beholder!
Phoebe Avro is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Laughed:
Old 08-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Phoebe Avro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 561
Business: The House of Avro
But saying that is a pickled sheep art ? I think not
Phoebe Avro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,494
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoebe Avro View Post
Art is in they eye of the beholder!
LOL!
That's exactly the photo set I'm working on to go with my post, complete with bloody eyeball.

Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Laughed:
Reply

Tags
art , photography

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




SEO by vBSEO