If You Were A Linden - Page 4 - SLUniverse Forums
Navigation » SLUniverse Forums > Virtual World Discussion > General SL Discussion » If You Were A Linden


General SL Discussion Discuss topics related to Second Life

Sponsor:
LIONHEART - We Have Your Land
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #76 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,635
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielRavenNest View Post
How about a User's Manual for the Viewer? I wrote most of one for you 3 years ago, but your staff showed no interest in filling in the parts that I didn't have the info to finish, or in making it available within the help menu or to new users in the registration email:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User%27s_Manual

You will note they added a notice at the top that it is out of date now *but did not update anything*. How useless is that?

A note on methodology:

I went through every menu and button on Viewer version 1.23 and tried to document what it did. A User's Manual can cover other things besides that, but at a minimum it should at least tell you how the software works, not leave it to guess work.
Exactly. As we discussed in the helping newbies thread, the new user experience is sorely lacking and a lot of the material isn't up to date.

Having said that, there will still be users who find clicking a wiki too much work or don't want to read/take a class.

The video tutorials were HUGE bang for you buck, but even then you had to know to go look for them.

I like Niran's viewer for the splash page tips (forgive me if I use the wrong word) anytime you teleport the teleporting screen is an SL tip and the user has no choice but to absorb some of that even if they don't seek it out themselves.
__________________
"Words mean things" ~ Bronxelf
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it only reached the end of the bar." ~ Edward R. Murrow
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
2 Users Like This:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:31 PM   #77 (permalink)
SLU Fluffer
 
Pancake's Avatar
Cock Chafer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,635
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2007
Client: Catznip or the Official but I dabble in others

Awards: 1
The Penis Handler 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Its varied. The number 1 remains "didnt know what to do" (hence destination guide, Linden Realms test). If you drill down though it ends up being "didnt find the one thing in SL that is good for ME.

IE: If you are into making scale aircraft and you end up in a nightclub then you bail. Mainly because you may not know aircraft making is possible. Likewise if you end up in a sandbox but you want to listen to music you bail because you think Sl is about making 3d objects.

One thing that is fairly common though is meeting people. In general if you mete people with vaugely shared interests you stick more.
This is an important part of the issue.
Even as an experienced addict of 5 years, I still struggle with things to do, and I dedicate my entire SL to finding new things to do.

The search has serious issues, the least of which is that it needs more drill down categories because "places" is FAR too broad. I can scroll three pages of clubs before coming to a store.

The destination guide? I pick up some decent tips there, but I also find it quite out of date. Some of the locations no longer even exist, and there are so many that are not included.

If people don't read blogs, forums or flickr, it's hard to find things in world to do. There has to be an easier/better way.
Pancake is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:39 PM   #78 (permalink)
Lantern By Day
 
Jack Abraham's Avatar
Gone Dark
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 723
My Mood:
SL Join Date: March 2008
Business: Mystic Gems
Client: Exodus, Firestorm, Viewer 3
Since you asked, Rodvik...

Get an actual artist (Penny might be available?) to design the areas newbies will first come in contact with. Show them how good SL can look before dumping them into the middle of the mainland.

Run newbies through a tutorial along the lines of most MMO tutorials, in a newbie-only region, so they can learn to:
• Walk, fly, sit, and teleport
• Unpack a box
• Buy things (both using Buy and Pay)
• Wear clothes, including prim and mesh clothes
• Send and receive IMs, and understand the difference between them and local.
• Rez and resize objects
• Mute people and objects

Help the newbies leave the welcome area and go to what they actually want, including sexytime if they just want to do teh sexorz. Accommodating the sex noob both increases the chances that they'll stay and explore something else, and makes the newbie experience more pleasant for those who aren't looking to bump pixels.

Make sure the areas where they're steered after leaving the tutorial are moderated. This need not be by Linden employees if other venues are willing to provide it (perhaps to capture them as customers), but let them have a few minutes of good experience with the rest of the residents before they meet the infohub trolls. (Of course the trolls will move to wherever the newbies go, but private estates may be willing to devote the manpower to keeping them out.)

Get search working. Search doesn't currently, by default, return places that are relevant to my search terms as its highest priority. In world search was my major exploration tool as a newbie, and if I were new again I'd never find the awesome with the current search tool.

Encourage mentoring. A formal mentor group is probably not the best way to go; perhaps a mentor achievement the newbie can award? Technical means so that merchants can easily recognize residents who give them referrals?

Getting your appearance de-noobified is a big deal in SL. I had the good luck to be taken under a long-time resident's wing my very first day, and she gave me a makeover that made me look damn good and eased my acceptance into the community. Referral tracking would help merchants incentivize this.
Jack Abraham is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Yay!:
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:42 PM   #79 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
*Poof!*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,769
Blog Entries: 1

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here) What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?
I think there should be some sort of humorous, flow chart styled infogram that gives people various paths and options to finding how they can achieve different things within SL and find out about the various paths people have chosen once they "get" Second Life.

The problem with new people is that don't "get" it. Showing the various pathways others have chosen and persisted with will give new starters a few more options that they may not have thought of. Once they delve further, they are more likely to meet the existing users who are passionate enough to help them stay. It's that passion that you can feed off of others that helped me to stay.

I'm thinking something along these lines for SL, based on this great flow chart about choosing fonts:


A destination guide or event list on it's own means nothing. What do people do there? How do you get there? How do i dress for it? Where can i buy the tools or items that i might need to fit in there? Who goes there regulary and what times are the best times to visit the place? Those sort of questions are left completely unanswered.

Maybe even a chat etiquette guide linked to the chart? There is no reason why the chart needs to be complex, but listing the obvious routes for those of us that know more of Second Life will be an interesting start for people.

I must admit, i really did enjoy the skills course i followed when i first entered SL in 2007.

Most of all, let people know that they will need to invest a little time into the product in order to get to know it.

Oh... and search is dire. It's slow, really confusing, other than people or a particular region, it's difficult to know what is relevant and whether the term you originally searched for is the right term to use even. And you still can't retype a search term into the browser page that comes up once you've used the tab in the viewer!
OrinB is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:47 PM   #80 (permalink)
Member
 
rodvik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Eel View Post
You know, when I started SL, it would dump new users into a tutorial area where you would learn to move, walk, run, fly, open boxes, how to buy things, etc.

Why doesn't this exist anymore?

It was also nice to have a mentors group out there that would help out new users.

Basically, new users are being asked to make an avatar, and then that's it. No help. Nothing. No idea where to go or what to do. It would turn me off immediately.

Essentially, you're asking a new born to go out and get a job when they don't even know how to crawl yet.

A users manual like the one Daniel is proposing is a great start.
To take your first point. People bailed out of the old extended tutorial even faster. Then after they finished it they bailed out at similar rates. It felt like a test, generally done solo.

Our experience has been in this day and age, people simply expect to be able to interact with the software without a 20 minute n00b t00b of things to jump through. At the end of it, they had forgotten most of what they had done* and we were back to our "what do i do?" problem.

I do like the tutorial that tells you as you do them though. But the previous "do a math test before you can ride this" was slightly less effective than the new "here are portals walk through one" model.

Agree though a good manual and ability to watch relevant videos whenever you want is a good approach.


(*literally, like a few seconds earlier they had "learned" how to pan the camera, but then had no idea on how to do it, people werent learning, they were just doing whatever the computer told them to, just to get past the "test" so they could proceed to SL proper.)
rodvik is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:48 PM   #81 (permalink)
syncing with reality
 
Couldbe Yue's Avatar
Mixing metaphors, splitting infinitives and dealing with rogue apostrophes
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,033
My Mood:
SL Join Date: a while ago
Business: Satiated Desires
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Its varied. The number 1 remains "didnt know what to do" (hence destination guide, Linden Realms test). If you drill down though it ends up being "didnt find the one thing in SL that is good for ME.

IE: If you are into making scale aircraft and you end up in a nightclub then you bail. Mainly because you may not know aircraft making is possible. Likewise if you end up in a sandbox but you want to listen to music you bail because you think Sl is about making 3d objects.

One thing that is fairly common though is meeting people. In general if you mete people with vaugely shared interests you stick more.
I kind of guessed as much, I'd think it also varied along demographics, socio-economics and location.

The human contact is hard for us all, unless you're taken under someone's wing early or you find an interest group that's lively and actually do hang out together you're pretty well condemned to being alone and at best only communicating through IM - assuming you can ever find someone to go beyond the occasional greeting. No matter what anyone says, the shared experience of talking to people that you can see on your monitor is the thing that turns sl from being a chat room to being a place. (there speaketh the av that never leaves her workroom - or talks to anyone unless I can possibly help it). You can't make people less socially dysfunctional.

The one thing you could do is make a web page for signup where people can put in their preferences (exploring, music, meeting people etc) and then have a page in the search app (I have no idea what you call it now since there's also a search in the top bar) which is specifically tailored to their preferences and lists the events, groups or shops that meet the criteria. Then it's up to them.. I would probably suggest a few guided suggestions as well as freetext. If you had cloud based tagging this would be a quick win (or even a search that worked - and you stopped people gaming the events listings). I'd probably also have it popup on login until they tick a box to stop that and I'd also make it editable within the viewer rather than on the dashboard.

personalising more than just offering the destination guide really would help - and you could also have some of the help places like the shelter or help island right at the top so if they have basic questions they'd know where to go. I know that when I arrived as a dewey eyed never-even-been-into-a-chatroom or played-anything-more-than-solitare newbie, I found people who helped me (well, they found me.. usually at the bottom of a canal, I couldn't walk straight and kept falling in them - still can't walk straight) and when the dewy eyedness wore off and I got bored I had to find something to keep me inworld - which I did. Without flickr which gave me a reason to keep exploring and documenting what I saw I would never have stayed. (which, to many people whom I've given angst to down the years would probably not have been a bad thing).

I don't think it's ever going to appeal to everyone, I've always thought that it would always appeal more to those who lived in their imaginations/were bookish. It's too unstructured for those who can't amuse themselves, although events may make some of them keep on returning - even if they don't settle down here. There seems to be two types of people, the residents and the visitors.. keeping both happy is a nightmare.

and try to communicate a bit more via email. Rather than the marketing spam of yesteryear, how about an update on what's new? even if it's only once every six months it may make some come back - look at how people flooded in when the linden home email announcement went out and how people used to respond to some of those other emails sent around that time (and I don't mean the nasty groupon type push you had).

fixing the marketplace and inworld search to stop fucking off your content providers would be nice too - happy content providers means more content and even *gasp!* the possibility they'll participate more.
__________________
Quote:
“There is no need to change your life,” Jean Baudrillard once wrote. “All you need is to have two.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo Quisquam View Post
"Sansar: come for the user created 3D content, stay forever in an endless cycle of attachment and disappointment!"
Couldbe Yue is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:48 PM   #82 (permalink)
Lustful Cockmonster

*SLU Supporter*
 
Joshua Nightshade's Avatar
Unedited
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 51,763
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 2004
Blog Entries: 1
Rodvik got a fucking avatar!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeny Leviathan View Post
Those Super Gays are as tough as a T-800 terminator and they are gay.
Joshua Nightshade is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:49 PM   #83 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
*Poof!*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,769
Blog Entries: 1

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Making the skills adventure (not test, or course!) an optional extra that people can go back to easily would be useful imo :-)
OrinB is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:50 PM   #84 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Aki Shichiroji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,668
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 7/22/2006
Business: Organica

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Send a message via Skype™ to Aki Shichiroji
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
/gets out volume 1
Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here) What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?

Right now after performance our biggest issue is not getting new signups or even people to experience SL for a bit, its turning them into long term users.

Any thoughts on what you would do? We have some ideas but before pulling the trigger I would be curious what folks thoughts are here. The more varied the better.

Thanks!
Thanks for piping up in here Rodvik. I am glad to see you are being more publicly active and happy to be updated on the latest

Here are a few notes that come to mind immediately regarding your question.

- return and update tutorials for new users, making instruction readily available in-world in text, picture, video as well as hands-on form. Add incentives towards learning these basics.
- Provide greater incentives to become invested in land and becoming a premium member. Increasing land which comes with a premium account, adding to stipend, adding to the premium exclusive content offering all come to mind.
- Provide a more granular set of options for tier payment, enabling users to expand their resource needs as necessary rather than in bulk.
- Work closely with in-house content developers to provide a visually stunning (but also importantly an efficient) experience that matches new user experiences provided by other games and platforms.
- Related, add and enable tool-sets which allow all content developers to create an up-to-date experience that matches those found in other games and platforms. (Materials come to mind)
- Work to flesh out abilities which make dealing with governance, land management and maintenance issues easier.
Aki Shichiroji is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
2 Users Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:51 PM   #85 (permalink)
Member
 
rodvik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Gonna be away from forum till tomorrow. Will ping more detailed responses. But I will tag a "thanks" next to posts as I read them. so you know its been read.

Cheers.

Rod
rodvik is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:54 PM   #86 (permalink)
Member
 
rodvik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade View Post
Rodvik got a fucking avatar!
I wrote a program to procedurally generate it 8)
rodvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2012, 04:54 PM   #87 (permalink)
Pancakes alt
 
Roxy Couturier's Avatar
Bondage Luddite
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,717
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 02/28/2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Right now after performance our biggest issue is not getting new signups or even people to experience SL for a bit, its turning them into long term users.
Thanks!
1. Bring back the New Resident portals. They didn't cost LL anything and they ensured new users had a 'leaping off' point for interests.

1a. Try to get a broad spectrum of communities (including Adult rated sim communities). Embrace the diversity of interests that are part of SL instead of sweeping them under the carpet.

1b. The sims that choose to be part of this should get a tier discount. They're adding value. By the same token they need to be held to a higher standard of professionalism in order to keep that perk.

2. Lower tier and revamp the tier system to add flexibility. Nothing says 'stay' like a multitude of places to visit. Yes I know there already are, but have you gone on a walking tour of mainland? I'd go Premium again if i felt it was worth it. Right now the value to cost ratio is rather low.

3. Eliminate the jackassery in areas like info hubs. People that get turned off by the griefer types that inhabit those places are the same people that would invest themselves in a friendlier world.

3a. That includes serial Abuse Reporters.

4. Bring back customer service. (Even for 'free' accounts. Free accounts buy L$ too.) If you do, make sure they actually know what they're doing.

5 Bring back last names. For me at least, it was one of the more appealing ways that helped to make SL different than first name only MMOs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter
Oh, sure, stomp all over my dark sarcasm with your rainbow-colored jackboots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancake
You are that evil voice on my shoulder Roxy.
Roxy Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 04:55 PM   #88 (permalink)
Lustful Cockmonster

*SLU Supporter*
 
Joshua Nightshade's Avatar
Unedited
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 51,763
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 2004
Blog Entries: 1
You guys... Rodvik quoted me.
Joshua Nightshade is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
2 Users Like This:
Old 06-26-2012, 05:00 PM   #89 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,987
SL Join Date: September 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?
Make sure they don't encounter creepy bot nests and wonder why nobody will talk to them.
Anya Ristow is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 05:03 PM   #90 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Da5id Weatherwax's Avatar
I have no status
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1,428
Business: No Escape
Client: Official, Various RCs, Marines,Firestorm - for testing stuff. BlackDragon - For everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
...Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here) What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?...
First off, kudos for asking.

I know you're working on the performance improvements, so assuming that you get that effort to a state where we stop bitching about issues (yeah, I know.. "oink flap")....

Get a real artist (knockknockknock PENNY knockknockknock PENNY knockknockknock PENNY) to help you rework the default avatar shape and the slider ranges to match real proportions. You can do this without breaking any legacy content because you don't need to change the UV map.

Get your opensource folks taking up and using potential fixes to the avatar skin weighting - there's several gifted modellers out there that would JUMP at the chance to participate in improving that. Little cost to you and the more you encourage and endorse them the better they will be inspired to be.

Custom armatures. Tell Nyx "Whatever it takes, make it happen and do it right"

(and now the controversial one)

Ditch support for obsolete PCs. Dont hold SL back for the folks that are struggling on an integrated intel graphics chipset. Think "black and white from a public terminal" or "clint and brandy" in the SnowCrash metaverse. We'd all prefer to be hiro protagonist.
Da5id Weatherwax is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #91 (permalink)
AKA: Marita Mumfuzz

*SLU Supporter*
 
Marita's Avatar
Mostly Lurking
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Swamps of SE GA.
Posts: 1,000
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Don't remember
Business: None , SL is for relaxin no work
Client: Any except Official

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here) What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?

Right now after performance our biggest issue is not getting new signups or even people to experience SL for a bit, its turning them into long term users.

Any thoughts on what you would do?

In talking to a few new users that needed some help , their biggest problem was learning their way about the SL landscape. All the "tutorials" for how to move and fly and such just cluttered it up for them , most figured that stuff out quickly on their own. Where they were lost was on where to go and what to do next.

Have 20 or so rez hubs where they start if they don't have a home set or specify a start location. In these "Hubs" have TP Boards they can click on to select a destination to go explore.
Now these have to be good locations that will get their attention and have them want to explore. Greenie's would have been a good example of one of the locations ... but ... they are long gone. Get some of the better creators to make the attractions , free sim for their work but they need to meet your approval to keep the sim. 40 or 50 free sims is a small price to pay to get the new users hooked on SL.

And have a Linden/Scout/PowerThatBe patrol those "Hubs" randomly throughout the day/night to keep the "Bozo's" from bothering the new users with the "Greifing" antics.

Can't tell you how many month or so old users I took on a tour of SL and when done they were amazed what all is out there that they never knew existed. Search is nice but most have no idea as to what they want to search for in SL.



And my SL job would be to wander the mainland sims and fix the permissions on the "Abandoned" land to remove the leftover ban lines and build with no autoreturn set. Wishful thinking but Mainland could be made so much nicer.
__________________

I think politicians should be required to dress like race car drivers.

That way we would know who their corporate sponsors are.


There was a time when the stupid were eaten by predators.

Now, they run for public office.
Marita is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Likes This:
Old 06-26-2012, 06:01 PM   #92 (permalink)
Just call me Beth
 
Aribeth Zelin's Avatar
Singing along with old music
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Out in the mists
Posts: 9,402
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Oct 4 2009
Business: Moondrops ; Tempus Fugit; Faerycat Designs; sPunk
Client: Firestorm
I think, as someone else said, get a new tutorial area written up, but have it come with benes. Maybe have people volunteer something good in the way of useful starting things, like a set of good clothes, a decent AO.

Failing that, have a basic 'How To' in the area, and maybe a sign stating where the portals are actually taking you, not just an area.

Maybe rotate those portals around from week to week or month to month so that, for example, the RP portal takes you to different RP areas, not just one.

Get links to the newbie or education friendly places, like NCI or Builders Brewery - places where those who want to learn how to make stuff can go. Or links to the specialized places like Particle Lab and Ivory Tower of Primitives.

Make the tutorial fun and have a purpose, so people will stick with it, much like a more standard MMO has. That's when you catch people, whether its SL or EQ or WoW.

Don't continue to cater to a small group of people. If educators and non-profits don't get a cost break for tier, than frankly, no one should be getting one. And if most folks have to pay for a new sim, then all people should have to unless there is a special for everyone. Currently, every month there is a drop in number of sims, and then a rise, and its among the same groups of estate owners.

A cost break for people who add value is good, but not one just for a few people in one area. Better yet, more folks are more likely to stay if they can at least have a tiny bit of land. Maybe a 512 for everyone, and then 1024 for your premium folks. Right now, there is a lot of space that is just idling. Look at what's going on with what looks to be SL's biggest competition [Cloud Party] and see what they're doing too.

Maybe even look into instanced homes for new players - that only exist when someone is in them.
__________________

Aribeth Zelin is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
2 Users Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 06:03 PM   #93 (permalink)
That Bitch

*SLU Supporter*
 
Void's Avatar
Innocent as far as you know
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Online
Posts: 14,947
My Mood:
SL Join Date: late 04 original account, mid 05 current
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
/gets out volume 1

Alright here goes.....

I actually love that you have a sense of humor about these things, it goes such a long ways to defusing minor tensions, hope ya never lose that.

Quote:
Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here) What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?

Right now after performance our biggest issue is not getting new signups or even people to experience SL for a bit, its turning them into long term users.

Any thoughts on what you would do? We have some ideas but before pulling the trigger I would be curious what folks thoughts are here. The more varied the better.

Thanks!
In all seriousness, yes, a few. The current assumption seems to rely to heavily on users recruiting new users, largely an advanced word of mouth scenario.... and follow on effects are great, but they aren't absolute. a part of the problem there seems to be the assumption that recruited residents will be most interested in the same thing(s) that the recruiter was, and that walk-ins (so to speak) will find the area of their interest in short order.... I can't say that the first is much better than a 50/50 shot especially if the recruit had a previous negative experience, and the later much less so.... destination guide is a step in the right direction, but it's a bit unfocused...

SL is largely content driven, whether you are a consumer or a generator, content is really what defines SL past other venues. Social aspects get covered pretty well, and even if they weren't people tend to fill in the gaps easily. What doesn't seem to get covered so well, yet is one of SL's distinctions above and beyond other venues is content generation... not just the idea of making something and selling it, but the idea of making it yours, customizing it out to suit your style... it gets pushed on the side of consumerism, but as far as the DIY side, it's hard to find where to go or what to do. People are left to themselves to find the various resources for modifying their experience, rather than being directed to them.... dozens of wonderful Torley videos, users groups like NCI, Builders Brewery, even the forums, and other like resources a lost in a sea of undirected search, to people that don't know the right words to search for what they want to find.

Key Points:
the idea of finding what you might be interested in needs tailored direction, to resources that can quickly bring users up to speed in their area of interest... not just "what to you want to do" but "want do you want to do today" and a stronger focus on the features that make SL unique.

and while we're at it, completely customizable layouts and containers in the interface so that users can not only tailor and streamline their experience, but also save and share them. defaults should be laid out in a way common to most familiar software, but NEVER hard coded or overly intrusive. yeah I know how much work that is, generalizing every menu and button... but every program that I use with that option is infinitely less frustrating, a joy to use, and a snap to change my usage of.

ETA:
and to address the point of my first slightly silly post in this thread... someone needs to go over consistency with a fine toothed comb.... everything form available lsl calls to legal policy, because unexpected behavior is a huge turn off.
__________________
- These eyes can do more than see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajsa Lilliehook View Post
It's not enough to care about liberty if the only liberty you care about is your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter Firelyte View Post
Why doesn't anyone ever ask, "What is the real meaning of the winter solstice?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eboni Khan View Post
Thanks for being passive agressive.
Void is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #94 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
EricCastanea's Avatar
Fast!
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 555
Give them a choice of places for their first login. Nothing fancy. Maybe a dance club, a RP sim, a live music venue, a building tutorial area, etc. Kind of like you have on the viewer login screen these days. But get their interest before they login. Then put them there. That will also give you feedback of what people are looking for. Then you can suggest places or activities that they may like.
EricCastanea is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #95 (permalink)
Dorkus Maximus
 
Casper Priestman's Avatar
PermaNewb
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cana-Duh!
Posts: 1,021
How to help user retention...oh my. Aside from possible changes to the user interface starting off in a default "easy" mode, I think the two biggest things that most new residents are curious about is "what is there to do", and "where do I fit in". Help Island(s) and NCI, and similar places are fine, but I think they'd be best suited for after a person has had a little experience. Somehow a vision of a newcomer logging in and actually being greeted and assessed as to their interests or experience would help steer them towards a suitable introduction. By default being enrolled in a new users group that could send out notices and announcements on various events and classes and tours. Now there's a thought....organized tours of SL....PG of course ;-) So even if a new resident didn't want to be part of orientation classes etc, they could go on their merry way but for 30 days they would have mandatory enrollment in a new resident's group. Some people log in once or twice and really miss the big picture, but if they were to receive notices via email or inworld about events, gatherings, classes, etc...something may catch their interest and convince them to explore a little more. I'm referring to things specifically geared towards newcomer education and not just the standard SL notices.
__________________
So you're on Twitter huh? The number of followers you have doesn't make you better than anyone else. Hitler had millions, Jesus had 12.
Casper Priestman is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
2 Users Agreed:
1 User Likes This:
Old 06-26-2012, 07:20 PM   #96 (permalink)
Solace Beach Owner

*SLU Supporter*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Undisclosed prepper bunker
Posts: 2,199
My Mood:
Business: Solace Beach Estates
Client: Firestorm
Hi, Rodvik, if you read my post that opened this thread, you'll see a lot of my ideas with regard to resident-operated community gateways providing activities and resources. But it's essential that people find what they're looking for once they get there. One major feature missing from the current Destination Guide and Featured Events system is the ability to schedule/route people based on time of day. Currently if an event is featured, it is shown all day long, even if the event itself only runs for two hours. This means that many new residents will go to a place expecting an event and find an empty sim. You need to sync Community Gateways and Destination Guide with the events listings, so that the starting portals only send people to currently active locations, and currently active DG listings move to the top.

This cannot be fully automated, and needs a human to look at listings daily, to make sure only quality events are being promoted and people don't game the listings with bots or fake events. That is also where a selected Community Gateway program can be helpful. Those locations are committed, honest, and screened for quality so you know newbies will have a safe experience. I was a part of that program in its previous incarnation and it was great, it helped a lot of people. Changing the focus of Gateways from tutorials (except for a few very committed educational places like Caledon and NCI)
to engaging newbies in activities would make the program much better.

I mentioned, and Roxy seconded, the idea of incentives, namely discounted or free tier, for regions offering these services. I'm not saying that because I want to make a buck off of Linden Lab, but because I want to offer activities and resources that are otherwise cost-prohibitive. Here is an example.

My communities, Solace Beach and San Diego 3D, have a live music and arts focus. If new residents are interested in live music, they're the place to go. But live music is expensive. My dream would be to offer live music for 3 hours a day, every day. But at L$5000 a pop for a great live musician, plus L$250/hr for a host, I'm looking at nearly L$16000/day to do that. PLUS I have to pay tier. I have a land rental business, but the land market is slow and I'm barely breaking even at this point, I don't have that kind of spare cash. So free tier for 1 island (about L$3000/day) in exchange for providing live music and newbie helpers daily...would not really be a lot to ask, from my perspective. And it would bring a lot of benefit to LL in terms of customer retention.
__________________
Solace Beach Estates: Beautiful Residential & Commercial Land for All Budgets!
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Solace%20Beach/193/48/23
Ayesha Lytton is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 07:40 PM   #97 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Void View Post
[snip] the idea of finding what you might be interested in needs tailored direction, to resources that can quickly bring users up to speed in their area of interest... not just "what to you want to do" but "want do you want to do today" and a stronger focus on the features that make SL unique. [snip]
This is exactly what I was thinking when I started to doodle this:

[Please note that this list is not meant to be exhaustive, ideal, or even too serious. It's meant to illustrate the sort of approach to an automated introduction to SL that would appeal to me.]

What would you like to do now?
  • Learn the basics of SL
    • Moving around
    • Looking around
    • Your Inventory
    • Buying stuff
    • Wearing stuff
      • Clothes layers
      • Attachments
        • Sculpted prims
        • Mesh
    • Being polite
  • Meet people
    • Dance
    • Conversation
    • Make friends
    • Er... you know...
  • Get dressed up
    • Finding clothes
      • In-world stores
      • The Marketplace website
      • Freebies
      • Inventory Library
    • Buying stuff
    • Wearing stuff
    • Creating clothes
  • Make things
    • Building with prims
    • Making sculpted prims and mesh
    • Creating textures
    • Creating clothes
    • Creating animations
    • Creating sounds
  • Play games
    • Go sailing
    • Go flying
    • Kill people
  • Make a home
    • Get a Linden Home
    • Buy a mainland parcel
    • Rent on a private estate
    • Set up your own private island
  • Explore places
    • Search
    • Destination Guide
  • Get rich
    • Set up an in-world store
    • Set up a Marketplace store

Each of the bullet points in this list should take you to an appropriate tutorial in whatever format works best for it (e.g. a video, a web page, or an in-world step-by-step hand-holding excercise). And just how the first level should be presented is another question (e.g. a window in the viewer, a web page, an object or room in-world...).
KT Kingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
2 Users Agreed:
Old 06-26-2012, 08:32 PM   #98 (permalink)
Oddly Controversial
 
Penny Patton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here and there. Kinda inbetween places now.
Posts: 4,817
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 11/30/2005
Business: Retired
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
I do get the sense that almost all criticism I read can usually have the line put in front of it "I love this world and I want it to do well, here is how you can do that ." Obliviously with frustration at it not yet having happened adding some spice to that statement
It makes me (and a lot of others, I bet) very happy to hear you say that.

Quote:
Actually I do have a question for folks here. Assuming SL improved performance enormously, from region crossings to lag to render times. (big assumption I know but roll with me here)
Not actually as difficult as a lot of people think. At least as far as lag and render times go. A lot of that has to do with poor content creation tools (not all of it, obviously, but enough that it's significant)

Given some simple changes to the content creation tools, some reasonable limitations on resource use and enough time for the effects to felt then SL could see a substantial decrease in render times, decrease in lag, and increase in framerates.

I'm not saying LL should put any sort of stranglehold on creativity for the sake of performance, but knowing how slapping 1024x1024 textures on every surface affects rendertime, latency and framerates should have clued LL in early on as to how they should present the texturing tools to a would be texture artist. Example content should have been made with good texture use that people could dissect and learn from. I'd maybe charge more for a 1024x1024 texture upload than a 128x128 (but make a 1024x1024 cost less to upload than the number of 128x128s it would take to make a single 1024x1024, see what I mean? A passive way of encouraging people to be more effective with textures!).

That same line of thought should have driven the evolution of all of the content creation tools from the start.

Quote:
What would you do to insure new users "stuck"?
Probably the most noticeable thing I'd change to make new users "stick" would be presentation. When everything about a new user's first experience seems to be made up of programmer art, that drives people away. (Unless you're Minecraft and have some seriously and instantly addictive gameplay elements to keep people coming back. SL is not Minecraft.)

I'm not saying LL should get into the content creation business, but they should make a good first impression.

Nice looking starter avatars are key. SL has some, but all of them are vehicles, robots and other non-human avatars and even these have some issues, but the main problem is the human avatars. (Ok, and the anthro animal ones, which are obviously parts from great looking "Tiny" avatars slapped on shapes they were never meant for.)

Beyond improved avatars, the starter environments, from the tutorial sim to the Welcome Areas and Inforhubs should show off what SL is capable of. They should be examples of what's possible, with some examples provided to residents who can take them apart to see how they're made.

Since documentation/user guides have already been mentioned by others, another thing I'd work on is the new-user orientation and tutorials.

What's that, you say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
To take your first point. People bailed out of the old extended tutorial even faster. Then after they finished it they bailed out at similar rates. It felt like a test, generally done solo.

Our experience has been in this day and age, people simply expect to be able to interact with the software without a 20 minute n00b t00b of things to jump through. At the end of it, they had forgotten most of what they had done* and we were back to our "what do i do?" problem.
I agree completely! The issue isn't what the tutorial covers, but how it's presented and how people interact with it.

First, a new user tutorial should be presented in bite sized, easily digestible pieces that new users select at their leisure. A new user should be able to skip the new user orientation entirely, or skip past it partway, but then they should be able to, intuitively at that, return to the tutorial where they left off or beginning a different tutorial section if they choose. So when someone, long after signing up and forgetting whatever they had learned in their first pass through a given tutorial, can return to said tutorial whenever they reach that "what do I do?" problem.

Rather than being a single entity, the tutorial should be a bunch of different elements involving both in-world environments a user can interact with, and the SL UI itself. In addition, the tutorials need to be interesting/fun to be the most effective. Like a game! Rewards for completing tutorials help, too. Such rewards could be small amounts of Linden Dollars, or even just a few more quality items people could use to deck out their starter avatar.

In fact, the welcome areas, infohubs and new user sims should all serve as passive tutorials, an organic way of teaching people about SL without a direct tutorial. Videogames are an excellent example of this kind of thought.

This profanity laced video does a really good job of showing how some better videogames handle this. Obviously SL doesn't have jumpin' and shootin', and falling floor blocks, but the same techniques can be applied to things like interacting with SL environments and features.

This can be combined really effectively with a manual and videos.

Speaking of tutorials, I'd use the Linden owned sandboxes to greater effect by putting building tutorials right there in the sandboxes! The tutorials would consist of instructions on making some of the Linden starter environment content, with increasing levels of difficulty. Basically walking someone, step by step, through making a pair of goggles, a low prim table, a car, a house. Since the person comes to the tutorial wanting to learn you can get away with a bit more detail and explanation than the orientation, explaining to a user why they are taking the steps they're taking, how it helps make their creation rez faster and be more low prim. This also gives people something to do! And gives them the knowledge to go out and do more of that on their own!

(Rather than a big sign at a sandbox, this could even be built into the viewer tutorials. A user looks up the "how to build" tutorials and is first encouraged to find a sandbox (given a list of sandboxes to click on and/or encouraged to look up a sandbox with some handy search terms.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
Its varied. The number 1 remains "didnt know what to do" (hence destination guide, Linden Realms test). If you drill down though it ends up being "didnt find the one thing in SL that is good for ME.
...
One thing that is fairly common though is meeting people. In general if you mete people with vaugely shared interests you stick more.
There's a couple issues here. First, nothing in the new user experience really teaches people how to user Search, or that it's even there at all! No wonder so many people have trouble finding things to interest them!

Second, there is almost nothing in SL's social tools to draw people to content and communities. This is precisely where people should be drawn to the content that interests them!

When LL first introduced the improvements to the web profiles (the feed, being able to mark locations and post to Twitter, etcetera) there was a lot of opportunity there for LL to add features that would draw people towards locations and communities that interest them.

Being able to tag locations, groups, Marketplace content with a limited number of "Interest Tags", the ones LL currently wastes on spamming people to "connect with". (Yes, I know you want people to meet other people, but not everyone can be forced to meet new friends by tossing them a list of people based on vague interest tags. It's like "cold calling". Getting people out to locations and interacting with groups/communities is a much more effective way to get people meeting other people.)

The solution? Use those "interest" tags to recommend communities, sims, content! (I'd recommend being able to only apply a small number of tags to any event, group, marketplace item, etcetera, because otherwise people will spam every interest tag under the sun, rendering them useless, if people are forced to only choose a few they will select the tags most related to their location/product to make them more effective).

Second, Events are a mess. The Event listings are so broken they're useless! Something needs to be done to fix those up. Currently people spam events that have little/nothing to do with the categories they're placed in, or aren't even events at all! There are places in SL that just spam event listings even tho they have nothing going on and no one there, they're using the event listings as a free advertisement for their location!

One idea that would help events, and tie in with other social features, would be to give every avatar a profile calendar. You could add an event to your calendar (or automatically have events related to groups you belong to or land you frequent added to your calendar) with reminders as the event day approached. You could get notices on your friend's rez dates approaching, you could mark times and locations on your calendar to be displayed publicly, or only to friends or groups of friends, to let people know where you intend to be at those times, in advance.

Actually, I wrote a couple blog posts with ideas I'd shared with several Lindens on the profiles team.

Post 1.

Post 2.

I can think of a lot more, but if this post gets any longer I'll have to start charging a consulting fee.

Last edited by Penny Patton; 06-27-2012 at 06:40 AM.
Penny Patton is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 06-26-2012, 08:58 PM   #99 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Nika Talaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,538
See, isn't this more interesting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodvik View Post
... If you drill down though it ends up being "didnt find the one thing in SL that is good for ME.
... One thing that is fairly common though is meeting people. In general if you mete people with vaugely shared interests you stick more.
It used to be easier to meet people. For example, folks hung about in stores, watching lucky chairs, and talking. I've tried to strike up conversations in stores lately - fellow customers just don't respond. But in my early days, I learned about places and groups by talking to strangers.

So, consider this. Even if you teleport newbies immediately to a location that should be of interest to them, nowadays chances are no one will talk to them unless it's explicitly a newbie area. Would it be better to get them to join a group chat of interest? LL must know which groups are liveliest.

----
Re: how to find something interesting ....

Don't we still have a page in our profiles where we check off what we're interested in? How about if those checkboxes are changed to live buttons that actually correlate with a limited number of things to do .... fashion, music, tourism (pretty sims), gaming, sex, art, RP, making money (aka building), socializing, learning? Oh, and one odd category, like "Only in SL". A place for things NPIRL - Drama Libre, for example.

So, you check a box, and the client pops up an attractive collection of brightly colored groups to join and/or places to go.

Of course, that requires someone vetting a list of acceptable places. Probably a more dynamic and varied list than the Destination Guide.

----

Which brings me to a question, seemingly unrelated but roll with me: How is it that the Phoenix folks have managed to run a resident-staffed inworld help chat group for months and months and MONTHS that has not degraded into a morass of influence peddling and petty griefing?

That group is the main reason why I use Firestorm - it has inworld help from other residents.

My point is: LL has evidently believed for years that it is impossible to successfully have residents help each other. But the best way for folks to find cool stuff in SL is to get pointers from a like-minded resident --- ideally, have someone take you by the hand and drag you along with them.

It isn't necessary to hook a newbie up immediately with someone who shares their innermost dream ... just hook them up with avatars who have a broad knowledge of SL and its people. I'm not interested in aircraft, but I know a couple of folks who are. I don't make a lot of machinima, but I know a terrific group of folks who do.

LL turned its back on facilitating that sort of interaction long ago. Take another look.
Nika Talaj is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Likes This:
Old 06-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #100 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DanielRavenNest's Avatar
Building Better Worlds since 1979
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In UR Internetz
Posts: 9,026
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Client: 7 of them (I like testing)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper Priestman View Post
Somehow a vision of a newcomer logging in and actually being greeted and assessed as to their interests or experience would help steer them towards a suitable introduction.
OK, expand on this in the form of "Newcomer Groups". On registration you get a list of topical groups you can choose to join before ever logging in the first time. Some examples would be:

* Basic Viewer Use
* Combat and Roleplay
* Clothing and Fashion
* Making 3D Items
* Customizing my Avatar

These would be regular SL groups which have volunteer officers to answer questions from newbies and police the groups. You would have enough of them that there would usually be someone around. After a while, new people get dropped from the newbie groups (like 30 days), by which time they should have found some groups of their own to belong to. Set a limit how many they can choose, like 3-5 groups max.

***Make sure there are instructions how to use group chat on the registration page where you sign up for groups, and also a popup when first using the Viewer.

If the newbie groups are restricted to volunteer officers and newbies, hopefully that will keep out the Infohub griefer types, or at worst eject them from the group quckly.
DanielRavenNest is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Likes This:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




SEO by vBSEO