ruby tuesday

p.s - i think w-hat did a tour once of Lalinda Lovell's place

it was...umm....nauseating?

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Ingrid N

Do you think all pedophiles are a-ok with their own urges? No, no they aren't. Please, it's not like they're some sort of mythical rape-monster, but don't you think that maybe having sex with a virtual representation of a child who is really into the sex and then hopping off to, I don't know, wherever ageplayers used to hang out, and getting feedback from people who also fantasize about having sex with children might, I don't know, get them to think that maybe molesting a child might not be so bad after all.[/quote]

Oh please. That's such a cliché. about 50 or so percent of people who actually successfully commit suicide reach out to people beforehand.

If I had a 10 year old child it wouldn't be allowed to play GTA 4, if you mean that. Preteens especially react very strongly to violence shown on TV or in video games directly after viewing (ie. act more aggressively), though I have no idea if any long term studies exist for that kind of thing.

Basically, what I'm saying is, parents who buy their kids M-rated games cause they are too young to buy them themselves are idiots.

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Ingrid N

To be fair, he never said he wanted to molest her, but the way he casually talked about how hot his recent RP with someone was after mentioning his daughter made me cringe.

Troy Vogel

Ingrid, believe me I agree with you mostly...

I don't think child molesters practice per se. Most of them just do it. And they're not always some creepy guy by himself in his bedroom logged into SL.

It's usually the uncle that's staying with your family, the father in law, the cousin that's 10 years older, the trusted babysitter neighbor's husband.

I know there's a lot of media attention on these serial child molesters but I am telling you they're the tip of the iceberg, there's a whole unspoken epidemic of this stuff going on in most families behind closed doors, and inside minds that remember what happened but could not tell anyone in the family.

I think shows like "catch a predator" are painting a way too polarized, unrealistic picture of what a child molester is. It's just not that simple -- it's not a serial killer, demonlike crazy person. It is a lot more sinister than that.

As for SL, it is a crapshoot. I really can not give you any suggestions for cleaning this place up. It's like the internet, there IS NO cleaning it up entirely.

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Ryozu

Pedophilia isn't illegal.

Fixed.

Okay, seriously, vocal as I may be about the whole subject, the content of the argument has nothing to do with the thread. What SHOULD be pointed out is not what rule was broken but the fact that a rule was broken, and dozens upon dozens of ARs were filed without LL taking any action.

I swear, people have NO sense of objectivity these days.

Ten, you seriously need to drop the specifics of the ageplay thing. It hurts the story. This thread is proof of that. You reported a story about content theft and yet there's pages of arguments about ageplay... The entire point of the first post is lost in the dead horse beatings.

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Troy Vogel

Ryozu:
Obviously you have not heard of the term HeteroFlexible.

Talon Lardner

Personally, I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole correlation of one's fantasies extending into real life for ALL those involved (I don't think it extends as much as Ten implies), but I'm in agreement with Ryozu here. This ageplay stuffs isn't the story, this is about someone allegidly ripping content out of spite and protest of someone supporting a charity. That part really gets me angry, since I have a cousin who has autism so severe that he will never speak nor be able to live his life by himself... yes, Lovell, I'm sure he PERFERS to be like that, I'm SURE, Lovell, that he perfers being severely autistic than to be able to take care of himself.

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Malachi

Alice had some trouble with this bit too:

`Do you mean that you think you can find out the answer to it?' said the March Hare.
`I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.'
`Not the same thing a bit!' said the Hatter. `You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!'

The assertion above should more accurately be stated:

Among known child molesters there are marked, recurrent, intense sexual fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child...

No one would be capable of making the converse statement up top; to do so would require knowledge of all people who have fantasies about sex with children and whether or not that results - ultimately - in molestation. People wouldn't be that forthcoming with Psychology Today nor Kinsey and therein lies the crux. There is an implicit statement through this thread that ageplay is a "gateway" to molestation. That belief is redolent of thought police and that's what bothers some people.

Criminalizing thoughts and acts that see their expression between consenting adults is something that has long been a constitutional issue from Griswold v. Connecticut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia where the US Supreme Court established the "right to privacy" (or in Brandeis' words, "The right to be let alone") including the more recent Lawrence v. Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which overturned a sodomy law in a case involving consensual sex. One can argue that judicial activism or "legislating from the bench" applies here, but until you get your own court overruling one of the world's most conservative bodies, you have to abide by their decisions.

Ingrid N

I'm not sure where you got that I disregard that about 80-90% of all molestations are done by a friend or family member, because I don't. Hence why I got so freaked out about the one ageplayer that I knew whom I know has a young daughter.

Yes, gay men occasionally watch gay porn. They might even rp gay sex on SL. A pedophile isn't defined by whether he has molested a child or not, he is defined by what he is attracted to.

WarKirby Magojiro

We're not oopportunists. This is Tenshi's fault. Including the second post about ageplay was a cheapshot at character asassination, and anyone with half a brain should have known how it would derail discussion.

It's the kind of thing I would expect from a local tabloid, looking for sensationalism. Not fair, unbiased journalism. This story is about content theft, and oposing opinions on autism. Tenshi chose to include ageplay, and it is on her head for the subsequent derailment of the discussion over it.

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Wounds, both physical and mental, heal in time. bones reknit, therapy and drugs make you forget. Life goes on.
But nothing cures death. Please remember this.

Zachary Dumart

See here's the thing.

As the lovely and vivacious Ingrid has pointed out: It's The Imagery, Stupid.

You can no more tell me that someone who ageplays is less likely to act on it in RL than you can say that someone who jacks it to Kiddie Porn is less likely to diddle their favorite niece. Is there a correlation? Can anyone get me a study? Because my gut says that if you're slappin' the salami to child porn, then there's a good chance that that's what you WANT - and you'd go for it if you knew you could get away with it.

Because men (who make up the vast majority of pedos) are extremely visual when it comes to sex. You do the ageplay thing, and you're watching a representation of a child doing the horizontal mambo with a grown up? That, my friends, is the consumption of kiddie porn.

And yes, I'm implying that if you're a guy who engages in Furry sex, that there's a chance you might look at the dog and go "Hmm..."

Lastly, the arguments that "Hey, i don't tell people how to live" is some kind of moral high ground is sheer bullshit. There are some lifestyles that are BAD FOR THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. Forcing women to wear beekeeper outfits in the Middle East comes to mind. So does Gor. And as long as I've got that Freedom Of Speech thing, I'm gonna point it out. That's MY lifestyle choice.

In conclusion - Ageplayers are pathetic worms. Small, meaningless people who are maladjusted and cracked in the head. And I'm gonna tell them that whenever I can.

Ten

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Joshua Nightshade

I'm trying to think of a way to phrase this objectively and I can't seem to.

I think that thoughts of having sex with children probably go through people's heads more often than is spoken of. I don't think those urges are relegated to a handful of comically evil fat balding men in Florida. I think it's frankly a lot more common than anyone realizes because you can't get onto this subject in almost any capacity before it becomes a free for all.

Instead we have a societal response which is a repression of its own, repression on the heads of anyone who thinks that way that they are depraved and sick and wrong and less than a human. Which gets internalized, layered upon and contributes to the breakdown of their psyche on different levels. The weaker ones break and give up and go target children, who then internalize and repress and feel ashamed to talk about it because as a society we think that all the pedophiles have bags of candy and red letters on their foreheads and never believe it's closer than that.

I don't think discussions like this are helpful. And further I think that this problem is a lot more common than probably anyone wants to admit to. Which leads to the prevalence of things like ageplay in SL. And child porn. Because you can't really repress things like this, you have to have an outlet or you end up a lecherous pedophile sneaking children away.

Again I'm not condoning it. As someone so affected by a neighbor when I was a kid I have some personal authority on this subject. I still say though that what consensual adults choose to do is that. And this is not a gateway to pedophilia, no more than video games are a gateway to murder. Someone who's going to fuck a kid will fuck a kid, SL isn't the only place to act it out. Someone who's going to kill someone else will do it, they don't need Grand Theft Auto.

But I think freaking out and acting aghast contributes to the problem. Someone can want to do something and understand they can't. But if you're afraid to talk about it with anyone because you see reactions like this, you won't talk about it, and you won't try to get help, and you won't try to control it, and it will instead eat away at you until you do actually hurt someone.

Is my opinion at least. I've almost exclusively only had sex with guys older than me though and kids annoy the hell out of me.

Clancy Sullivan

Manwhore.

Joshua Nightshade

Fuck off Clancy.

Ten

I love not having to argue till I'm blue in the face with New Josh and having New Josh put out his opinion kindly.


I'm from the group that says you govern your thoughts, and keep your actions from your thoughts clean... well, mostly. There are things that cross the line: rape, harassment, child pornography, beastiality... you know, the general "human ethics" rules. I think furries fall under beastiality.

Any of those things will cause me to cringe and I won't see nor listen to them. Josh, it's not normal for people to think about screwing children. It's just not. It's not even Freudian. And I'm sure if you look through history, you'll find
that people who screw children have been labeled "psychotic" and shunned.

Joshua Nightshade

I'm not saying it's normal. I'm saying it's probably a lot less uncommon than we think. If there's any lesson to be learned by shows like To Catch a Predator it's that there really doesn't seem to be a dearth of guys thinking about it.

Troy Vogel

Well the catch a predator show is just that... a show. They should rename it to "trap a potential pedophile". They do a lot of fancy manipulation in the chat log to REALLLY persuade the people to come out...

They never show you the full chat log of course. I dare them. I dare them to show the full chat log. I bet money 9 out of 10 cases their decoy initiated the exchange and flirted the person into a stupor.

So is that really catching a predator? Or is it turning someone INTO a predator? Thinking it is WAY different than DOING it? Is the party that causes this switch to happen entirely innocent?

If someone gave you the password to the world bank and said, no one will ever see this and know it, you can take all you want, come on, you can be debt free -- wouldnt you be for one moment tempted?

Ann Launay

Humans in costumes, no actual animals involved; ergo, no bestiality.

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Joshua Nightshade

Oh no I'm totally with you, it's a completely crap show and total entrapment. But the willingness says to me in part that this probably happens more times than you see.

Io Zeno

Zachary Dumart

I think it was Aristotle who said: What a load.

I'll give you that we've all had "thoughts" of doing things that we should never act on. I've had thoughts about murdering people. I've also had thoughts of publicly humiliating people so badly that they lose their jobs and family and end up living on the streets. But, you'll just have to believe me when I say that that the idea of giving the panty poke to a 8 year old just hasn't crossed my mind.

This is some crap that somehow we are all children of god's light and we just need to accept our differences and blah, fucking blah, blah, blah. There's a DIFFERENCE between having thoughts of say, being gay, and sexually abusing a non-consenting child. And my thoughts of killing and humiliation? Damn straight I feel "bad" about them, and if I was serious about them? Then society SHOULD say - "Hey Zach, you're a sociopath!"

Because if we equate this idea that all of our "depraved thoughts" are the same, then you're slipping down that slipperiest of slippery slopes. Next thing you know the right-wing jackholes are saying "SEE!!!! We told you that being gay was the same as being a kid fucker!!!"

You have repeated fantasies about screwing children? And if you feel bad about that? You're not "repressed" - you're a douche and at least you're starting to realize you're a douche.

Joshua Nightshade

I'll give you a couple minutes to go read the post you quoted and reword your response so it has something to do with what I actually said, instead of what you thought I meant.

Go on, I'll wait.

Io Zeno

Josh is different now.

Joshua Nightshade

I am, reflect on how I normally respond to multiple exclamation points.