Blacktip Razor

About the only thing I have found is this:


SLSAILING.COM – The Portal Magazine for SL Sailing. - Blake Sea Documentation is Published

Part of the SL Wiki appears to be a broken link, but the documents are there, and the SLSailing.com site.

This was from Oct. 2nd, 2009; this is simply my opinion, so take it as such.

I don't think there were formal arrangements of say, the requirements to attach to the Blake Sea. There were, at one time, nine estates numbering about 130 SIMs which were the USS. In Dec. 2008, in the former OpenSpace SIM conversion to today's Homesteads, LL joined the USS with the mainland; a south/north line on the far west end of the Blake Sea.

I may be wrong here, so please do NOT take this as hard fact, but from older information there were nine estates numbering about 130 SIMs in the USS. However, I may be mistaken on this, and I am no spokesperson for the USS or the estates that belong to it. (I ask the USS's forgivenance on my ignorance.) This was announced in a LL press release of Dec. 18, 2008 by Jack Linden on the creation of the Blake Sea. I believe the USS goes back to 2006 so it was in existence at least two years before the Blake was created, and oviously was instrumental in the creation of sailing in SL, along with many others.

Simply from traveling through these estates, it appears by, I assume, agreement, these estates allow unimpeded travel (no ban lines or security orbs) in their SIMs and as long as there is no violation of covenant, SIM rating, or LL TOS...anyone can travel through them. Just recently, it appears Sailors Cove has banned military ships, boats, planes, helos (not avatars...vehicles) except for the SLCG.

In order for anyone to attach to ANY SIM on the grid, you have to have permission of the owner. I own Black's SIM, and Evola wants to attach her SIM to mine; she has to have my approval.

I know this is not an answer and I am searching; if I find any such information I will post it.

Amanda Dallin

LL used to have a Community Partnership Program. The Blake Sea was created under this program in partnership with the United Sailing Sims. To my knowledge they were the only partnership before the program was discontinued. I heard there were talks once with an aviation community group to form one but that never happened. The links to the original Community Partnership Program page are no longer active or divert to a Community Resources page. You would have to approach the United Sailing Sims about joining them. I have no idea if they would consider adding new members.

__________________
Michael Linden: Uh, I dunno!


“The world's male chivalry has perished out, but women are knights-errant to the last; and, if Cervantes had been greater still, he had made his Don a Donna.”
-- Elizabeth Barrett Browning

Maggie

Hello Blacktip, welcome to the fray.

i think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say or I didn't make argument well enough.

If you attach your private sim to a estate that has convent, you are expected to obey the terms of that convent. You don't just get to join an estate then because you don't like how its going later own change your mind and say your not going to follow the convent An then expect to stay connected to the estate you joined.

I think the same thing should apply to themed sims like the Blake sea area. If you attach your sim to an area with a theme like the Blakes knowing there is air and water traffic through the sims in that area. Everyone that uses that area has reasonable expectation that they can fly and navigate through your sim.

Just because you join that area and suddenly decide you don' t like it doesn't mean can suddenly start banning such traffic. This is not fair to the people that use the area and certainly not fair to the surrounding sim owners that also attached to a themed area for that reason.

Just like the airport example you gave. If you move next to an already existing airport and you have traffic flying over the parcel that you just bought. You shouldn't allowed to throw up ban lines because you don't like it. The airport was there first and you didn't have to move next to it.

Nobody made you buy land next to the airport. Nobody made you attach your sim to the blake sea. You are free to move away from the airport just as you are free to move your private region away from the blake sea.

So yes. There are cases in which someone else can and should be able to dictate how you use your private region.

__________________

Amanda Dallin

This depends on the agreement the USS has with LL. That agreement does not seem to have been published. They have rules published on the USS's administrative powers in LL's Blake Sea regions but I've seen nothing on limits placed on the USS private sims connected to Blake. There could be limits but without access to the agreement it's up to LL and/or the other rest of the USS to say so.

Maggie

Yes. Its probably more complex than I let on, but I hope people understand what I'm trying to get across. Sure, land owners should and do have full say in what goes on, on their own property. But at he same time if you move into area with a theme the other residents should have some expectation that you will follow the same theme. Again all of this is with in reason.

Rebel Television

I think sailboats and helicopters are both great for simulation, in different ways. Sailboats feel sort of natural, like they just sort of evolve out of wood and hemp into an ideal shape for low-energy traversal of the ocean. And helicopters are some sort of ungodly beast that somehow manages to get airborne in defiance of all natural law, perhaps because the earth itself is repelling them as some sort of planetary immune system.

Maggie

I just love sailing in SL. It seems just like a natural part of the experience. It like its just naturally belongs in SL.

When I was flying I had an old pilot friend. He hated helicopters. He had a saying, "helicopters are just 20,000 parts flying in loose formation." He always reasoned that if helicopters where so safe, how come you never see any antique helicopter fly ins.

Rebel Television

I do love airplanes too. I just don't like hitting many sim borders in rapid succession. Which is why Cubey Terra's ultralight remains one of my favorite vehicles.

Gabriell Anatra

I like airships for this, though their record is possibly even worse than helicopters.

Evola

No, actually it doesn't appear that way. The only mention of it to be seen has been 3rd hand mention of it here on SLU, and a group notice written by some unnamed person in an aviation group inworld. There's been no notice of it in SC estates official group, nor is there anything to that effect in their covenant(it hasn't been updated, I just looked). There is a limit to size of boats, nothing longer than 26m in length, which would effectively bar a lot of military ships, definitely the aircraft carrier that apparently prompted this latest drama, but that is all. Aerial combat is also not allowed, I'm pretty sure sea combat(as in pirate ships) is - I used to see them out fairly frequently there. But there's nothing about military vehicles being banned; without any type of official notice from the actual owners of the estate and an update of the covenant it's just typically stupid sl sailing community drama hearsay.

Evola

I haven't tried Cubey Terra's, Warbug planes are the perfect size for single sim combat though, and a lot of fun.

Abdul

You're quite right actually. I was there earlier today and didnt notice anything talking about a ban on military things in the covenant...it just talks about certain types of boats and how they should be used and when to pick them up and where to leave them.

Malcious

*sighs*
Allright, to explain there's a few ww2 Battleships that have recently hit the market, and some people are taking them to the Blake.
There's a small Minority of Sailors who don't like the idea of Battleships in the Blake and have come up with a large melody of excuses in an attempt to justify a ban, the most insulting being the bizarre dillusion that all Battleship owners are teenage showoffs out to turn the entire Blake Sea into a war zone simply for the pleasure of 'annoying' the sailors.
I got a tad annoyed at this comment and lashed out at them on the Sailing fourms.

Anyway, the small protest that did happen has been taken out of context, it was a rather silly affair involving three people and some alts waving flags, but it was not agsint the battleships or combat vessels, but more the Carrier that had been rezzed in Kraken.
Their belief is that non-official structures shouldn't be rezzed in the Blake for more than a few hours, and its hard to argue with that.
This display had the opposite effect, it attracted the attention of almost the entire Blake Aviation community who started their own counter protest, they thought the anti-carrier protests meant ALL military vehicles and obviously felt threatened.

Its gotten a little out of hand, but it would seem most of the sailors don't mind the Battleships and the Warship community is getting itself organized and is prepared to self-regulate to prevent interference to other events in the Blake.

The current plan is to square off another 4 sims in some remote unused corner of the Blake and turn it into a full time combat zone, should be interesting.

Khamon

My dhramaz meter must be broken. It hasn't even flickered this whole thread. tap tap tap

__________________
A Journey Through the World of Lever Harping

Evola

It would be nice if LL added a few open water/non-residential sims to Blake Sea to handle the additional traffic as it's grown over the years, for combat or otherwise. Not really my cup of tea but would love to see some sims added on the East end for combat with a few privately owned sims attached, I could always park in a small fishing vessel and watch

Abdul

I say just add more water sims to the north of blake sea...and maybe open up nautilus for potential events...everyone is crammed in blake sea...its getting too crowded and people aren't too happy about that.

It's the restructuring of the complete sea that needs to be thought about.

Evola

I thought Nautilus was effectively open to events, I've seen races that go through in the past, with race directors shooing people out of the region.

Abdul

Probably...I don't really follow the racing events and anything that has to do with sailling.

Blake Sea is a mess so i've made sure to stay away from it and all of the businesse's in it for now...i dont like crashing because of some protest.

Blacktip Razor

Hi Maggie and thanks. BTW, I have read your blog and enjoy your adventures.

I have zero disagreement with letting people use the areas I pay for around the Blake to fly or boat over and around. This argument is simply with your concept of apparently supporting a position where you can take control of private property.

I agree. Then again, that is between mysef as tenant, and my landlord, the SIM/Estate owner and you will notice there is no "YOU" in it as a third party in that discussion.


Saying that the "same thing should apply" is your wishful thinking. It doesn't. Whatever your "expectations" are, they are YOUR expectations, not, of all things, a "right" as you stated earlier.


How is it not fair to those who use an already free resource? It takes nothing away from their use. It does not stop them from flying through 48 SIMs as in the Blake.

And per the surrounding estates, exactly how is it not fair to them? If you suggest it lowers their property values (which in itself is a joke, given the reality of the land market in SL currently), I would claim it may possibly do the opposite; I'd market anytime my parcels next to my neighbors who bans traffic.

Sailors Cove has now banned traffic in its 50 SIMs (I believe that is the current number) that consists of any military vehicles, and do note that is VEHICLES not avatars banned; does that somehow affect or "hurt" the neighboring SIMs around it in their estates? Far as I can see, absolutely not.

And it is completely, and it is truly their, right to do so.

Given that you wish to control private use, what are your "expectations" on that?


Rather simplistic and one dimesional, don't you think? Okay, let's try this.

The parcel I was referring to was Blake Diego Point, belonging to Hollywood Real estate. (Note: Blake DIEGO Point, NOT Blake Sea
Diego; it is private land.) To the north is Blake Sea China (LL) and north of that is Santa Catalina, home of Hollywood Airport.

To land or take-off at Hollywood, you use Blake Sea China. Landing, you fly north, touching down on the south end of the airport's landing ruway. Taking off, you start at the north end of Hollywood, and take-off to the south over Blake Sea China.

Blake Diego, the SIM, is the home of the Blake Sea Battle Group and is one of 9 SIMs which roleplay Fighting Sail between the Pirates and the Navy as well as Ironclad battles.

I don't care if the airport was there since the dawn of time. I rented there as:

1. I want to RP a Pirate (the nine SIMs there do require a certain amount of adherence to the theme of Pirates; IOW, I couldn't
erect, say, a concrete glass home and park a helo on top), or...

2. I am a Captain in BSBG, and want to battle, and moor my boat there or...

3. I want to build a deck, put an easy chair on it and watch the battles, or...

4. I want to build a deck, put an easy chair on it and just watch the traffic, or...

5. I want to watch the sailboat races.

None of those involve the proximity to the airport, its traffic, or whether or not I welcome aircraft on my property. Also, there is Blake Sea China, the LL owned Blake Sea SIM, which allows a full SIM for pilots landing and taking off. I have zero problems doing both using Blake Sea China; am I supposed to pay tier to give MORE room for pilots? How much more is acceptable to you?



Nobody made you, as a user of free public use SIMs for your enjoyment, somehow able to dictate to private property owners what they can or cannot do on their properties. You are free to NOT use those SIMs if your expectations are not being met, or that those free 48 SIMs of the Blake are just not enough for you. Too bad.

And "free" to move my SIM? Costs $100US to move a SIM. On top of what I have paid to purchase the SIM and pay tier on it just so I can meet YOUR expectations. First year of owning a full private region, purchased through LL is $4540 US.




You had best hope that never comes true as Second Life is history at that moment. No one would spend $3540 US per year in tier for a full private SIM so that you can tell them what to do with THEIR property while they pay for your "expectations".

What's next? A demand for a rez zone if you crash? Or a place to park? Once you have opened up this can of worms, no telling what will happen.

The reality is, amongst the private SIMs that border the Blake, there seems to be a voluntary "agreement" that ban lines and security orbs are not allowed to impede traffic in and amongst the SIMs of those estates, which I wholeheartily support. After all, the fun of the Blake, to me, is to cruise and look at the builds and islands.

Like the RL land and housing markets, the SL land market has been suffering for several years. In fact, if current trends continue, it is estimated that private region SIMs will lose around 10% of their numbers in 2012.

New World Notes: SL Forecast to Lose 10% of World's Private Sims This Year

Your above contention is simply another extremely negative position for investment in SL and what is particularly "wrong" about it, is that somehow you think you have non-existent "rights" to enforce use and conducts to meet YOUR expectations.

Blacktip Razor

The reply above by meon my views of private ownership and the Blake are related to the current problem in the Blake.

While some are upset about the "military" presence in the Blake for both symbolism and the fact they are weaponized which can cause problems, there are other problems to address in this mess.

As one builder mentioned, cruise ships and 747's are on their way.

Size.

The new ships, copies of the Iowa Class battleships, the German Bismark, some new destroyers, some "experimental" aircraft carriers, and a new Coast Guard cutter are available now. Their size is one third to one half the length/width of a SIM at 256 me.

One drivable yacht is 120 m.

While much of what I call "hysteria" over military vessels in the Blake going on now, there is going to have to be consideration of the sheer size of new builds.

Somehow, as rational, intelligent people, we are going to have to work out some solutions to these problems.

ZiGGy sTaRsMiTH

As a resident living near the Blake Seas I am always there daily by boat, hot air balloon or helicopter and I love seeing the diversity of anything from submarines to pirate ships to navy war boats shooting and having battles. My vote would be to allow it all as it is regulated to a small area and the rest of the Blake Seas are available if you want to avoid seeing battles etc etc.
If your sailing peacefully along and someone shoots at you, so what? You can't be hurt or damaged and it can be rather funny!
I also love being buzzed overhead by a plane while sailing and I have engaged in some pirate ship battles myself!
I love seeing that air craft carrier and once saw a massive titanic parked there as well and to me it all adds to more SL fun and adventure.
Some people need to lighten up and stop trying to control other people...
Cheer up, it may never happen!!

__________________
Ziggy On The Edge Of Second Life

Evola

This is probably off-topic and not at all the point you were trying to make but after joining the SL Aviation group(I was bored and curious to see who sent out the notice about Sailors Cove), at this point I wouldn't blame you one bit for not wanting pilots on your land. I wouldn't welcome that particular group of them, or the slcg, on mine either(eta: since you work at Hollywood Estates where the airport is, that probably includes you too). It's pretty obvious that they're a big part of the problem, and not at all honest, after seeing them go on and on drama-wise over a guy who wasn't blocking their runway, filing fraudulent ar's and inciting others to do so anyways, with the intent of getting LL to ban him because they didn't like a protest flag on his warship - I was in the area on boat when their group chat drama started up so went to park and watch awhile; at most he was being a minor nuisance and not violating the tos in any way, the ship was not that tall(shorter than some yachts actually), easy to fly over and parked out on a public Linden owned sim not really bothering anyone. And they've been going on about it for the past 4 hours, non-stop.

Evola

It isn't a problem, a 120m yacht isn't even going to fit on most of the private sims there, to the point of being able to drive through. Also, length limits can and have been added to covenants long ago, long before the 64m prim abilities LL added. Problem solved. Your solutions for Blake Sea and those of your friends aren't needed, it's just a power trip from the usual types.

Malcious

I'm afraid you wandered into the Sim Life Coastguard Thunder dome there, to an outsider the guy in question may appear to simply be holding a one-man protest, and while I agree the now week long debate is a little extreme, the Sim Life Coast Guard fully deserves the level of AR's is getting, considering their behavior over the past 2 weeks.
Most of it all by the one-man-protester everyone was bitching about.

it all started a week ago when a pro-Battleship rally was passing through Blake Sea China, the Sim life group attacked them with purpose built 'ramming' ships and attempted to push the convoy into the Airport.
Its gotten a bit out of hand since then.

Maggie

[QUOTE=Blacktip Razor;1580520]Hi Maggie and thanks. BTW, I have read your blog and enjoy your adventures.

I have a blog? I should probably go read it. I would love to know what I've been up too. All seriously though are you sure you have the right Maggie here?

Anyway I'm not going reply point by point. You have to many good points and I'm lazy this morning. Its coming that all this drama is being over blown so it would probably be best to simply let it die down as quick as possible.