Adeon Writer

Thank goodness. I was quite because I didn't want to be the first to say I had never heard of them.

This will certainly do well for their publicity. Hopefully they come back so I didn't miss out.

Brianna Ort

Ditto!

Darkley

im flabbergasted

next you will say you've never heard of Truth Hair

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Adeon Writer

Only because SLU keeps mentioning them. I may visit to see their male section sometime.

Elysium Hynes

Sometimes you just miss a shop or are not paying attention when itīs mentioned, Iīve had it happened with a couple of them tbh.

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Darkley

its just its Curio, who has been in the skin game forever, i bought my first 5 years ago

Brianna Ort

That one I know.

Ceka Cianci

it may be time for me to look at curio skins as well for myself..
also i am going to add them to the list of skins i mention to people looking for skins..and
hush..well those will be added to the list to avoid..

people that steal should not try to become famous..

Nadia

I have heard of Curio, but never heard of League.

Elysium Hynes

It still happens due to the huge amount of shops in SL, and rebrandings and such, more usual then you would think.

Brianna Ort

For the first few versions of me I tended to search "skin", and bought the first one I liked. Ever since, if I want to change what I look like, I switch to an alt. So I don't go looking for new skins much. Whichever me I am is almost always the same.

Newer alts are just in it for seeing what the noob experience is like and stay with freebies.

Arica Storaro

To be perfectly honest, I -do- think that one can frown upon Harper's behaviour in regards to the whole thing about Hush/Curio, i.e. advertising Hush on her blog and letting them into the event.

Why?

Because anyone can post a clusterfuck of some cool sounding words on their blog, type out some weird documents that seem somehow legit and which a non-professional has no way of proving wrong.

Because we all know how LL are in regards to DMCAs: Sometimes they react immeidately and take all your stuff down without really checking, and sometimes they receive a billion of DMCAs and never react or do anything. So, saying that LL took down the store of Curio...what does it exactly -prove-? Now finally Hush is closed as well.

Because as a rather influential person, I find it to be rather naive to jump on such 'proves' about legal actions and condemn a skincreator publically by advertising the contrahent quite blatantly, giving them top spots in a big event etc.

Because -waiting- on any -actual- proves would have just been that little bit more 'professional'. Gala is not a member of her group, yet I still believe every creator, in it or not, should either receive support...or none at all in such occasions. Neutrality would have been a much wiser decision, imho. Making rather snarky, odd remarks when asked about the Curio incident about how she knew more than everyone else...eh.

I am baffled it actually took -that- much of controversial discussion by both users and other creators AND yet ANOTHER DMCA (Curio had filed one against Hush before Hush filed theirs against Curio) against Hush to let them take down Hush, not to mention that Hush put up her stuff again -regardless- of the DMCA by League.

So, yes, I think said person could have reacted WAY better and WAY less biased in this matter and I am not sure how this whole thing works for their own reputation.

As for the policy of the Skin Addiction group itself: On teh one hand, I can perfectly understand that they want to avoid the drama that prodding, nudging and constant questions about the topic might cause, so it is perfectly valid to simply bury that topic and mute it in chat. On the OTHER hand though, their OWN actions and reactions to the matter (i.e. so blatantly picking sides without any actual proves) caused those questions to begin with.

But I guess, the safer way is indeed to simply keep the matter closed, so i can't blame them there.

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Elysium Hynes

Sometimes people are just not aware of the contorvesy. I wouldnīt judge any blogger for blogging the skins. I didnīt btw, i went to skin Addiction saw them there and thought i better not touch this. I still blogged some stuff from the event, but honestly people sometimes just donīt know, a good example of that was the IT Girls and TDR thinghiee, but that was another incident all together.

Arica Storaro

I wholeheartedly agree in general there. I wouldn't judge them.

But the CHATMOD (not owner, sorry) of that group and one of its most knowledgeable and prominent members? Who went on and on publically in her group that LEGAL actions were taken against Gala by Hush, thereby implicitely painting Gala as the bad one without any ACTUAL proves (hell, anyone can just randomly falsify some documents) of what is/was going on and then going on to blog the skins of the supposed victim? Yes, I blame them. She was very...eager to let people know that she had the whole side of information from Hush.

I admit, I support Gala in this. Should it ever come out that indeed Hush was the victim, against all proves, against all odds, against everything that speaks against her and FOR Curio (which is like..ten times more)....then I will apologize and withdraw my support. But I am no one of importance. I do not own the most popular and influential Skin-group in SL so my opinion, on the whole, means ---> []<---- this much. Hers tho? A lot more. If I had been in that position, I would have excluded BOTH and had waited to see what was to come.

Darkley

actually what happened to the people earlier in the thread who have 'seen' the legal documents and we would all be proved wrong?

Elysium Hynes

I didnīt see that group thing, cause i was only in it briefly. But this is the only logical and professional way to deal with it yes. unfortunately in SL rarelly act that professionally.

GothGirl Demonia

Oh god so wait a minute...

This isn't the first time Hush has had a DMCA filed on them, but others filed one as well?

And for hush supposedly being a creator and in the CCA, I don't understand why they are both filing DMCA's on eachother other than what I have seen posted here about the watermarks.

The problem with the whole DMCA process which I have seen for example on YouTube, and Second Life, Lets say I filed a DMCA on anyone in SL, chances are LL would remove the item in question because I am providing under perjury that the information is accurate false information or not. The person then has a right to counter file that, such as what I had to do once on YouTube, but anyways after a counter file is successful usually if it is going to be removed again the following I have seen happen.

1. The company asks for it to be taken to court.
2. Some companies might just suspend both parties accounts under the Terms OF Service until a decision is made.

But the whole problem I see is that CopyBotters are abusing the DMCA process they will often counter file a DMCA, and given the fact that LL often restores the content they sometimes are getting away with it because they ask for it to go to court, and then the creator sometimes is from another country and can't afford to sue.

The Second problem I see which is fairly common and I have experienced it myself at least 3 times in SL, is Role Play groups sometimes get infested with botters, even just one Botter in a Gorean RP group can cause so many problems, and that problem is also that one botter leads to another, then their alts and friends, and finally you get that single person copying so much content it just isn't funny. I remember years ago when I took steps on some of my own groups I was part of and left because of things like this I took it down hard they didn't care. Supposedly this has changed now, but the fact remains open there are just too many people in SL that don't care generally speaking.

Another fact is that I have been reading some of the posts here, and funny thing is I met quite a few of these people because of the whole Bot Wars thing, I even remember the day I got like dozens of IM's because one bot decided to get me Perma Banned from SL by sending around a rogue NoteCard with my name on it and a redelivery terminal hundreds of skins but it didn't work I came back, and I made the griefers most hated list, but I still get my laughs at things that these griefers said about me.

The only sad part about it is that I don't just take shi* from griefers I have to take shi* from some of the creators in SL while it is rare I run into one or two that do stupid things like helping these botters because they are misinformed or don't know what is going on, but even worse than that Admins from some sims that beleive I have the time to go there and spam their sim with scripted attacks so I take the fall for that too, and no matter how much I try to explain to some of these people they just don't understand which is sad but some people like to RP griefing I guess because to some sim moderators I am a domestic terrorist, and they are going to call the police because supposedly I griefed them with a scripted cube in a game that allows it so I am some sort of major hax0r... Yeah I just don't get it really when you help a griefer they come back for more, when you fuel a Troll they come back for more if only they would stop feeding them and spreading rumors maybe they wouldn't get hit so much...

Don't get me wrong on this, there are legit uses for even some things that would be considered griefing, or illegal. Even Red Zone had its advantages and done properly and not abused could have done right, but the fact is that Red Zone, and similar systems just like the bot became abused. Even this recent force teleportation thing it had its uses, but people abused it so now we have to wait longer before we can use that scripted command.

Well I hope in the End justice gets served here, and I bet when Curio is open again their sim will crash due to all the customers trying to get in...

Curio Online ŧ Curio Skins Update Seriously I don't understand why Linden Lab would remove the entire store it is just like them removing casino's from the grid. In fact I hope that LL kept an exact backup copy to restore their sim when the lawsuit is done with...

Amelia Freund

Ah. I never knew others have had the same idea before. I remember hearing something on the grapevine about LL themselves coming up with a way to endorse original content but it hasn't come to fruition and probably never will.

I guess there's no way to do it without people thinking you've appointed yourself as the content police. The aim behind my idea was to give original content creators some sort of insurance and to give inworld (and MP) shoppers confidence when deciding on things to buy. Instead of the witch hunting and drama and focus on the wrongdoers, there should be more positive attention turned to the original content creators. There should be some sort of tangible and credible merit given to them, something they can use, something they can show, something that can reassure their customers that they're giving their L$ to the right people.

Of course in SL what is credible? There's no one person who can give others credibility, there's no group that can either.

*Screws up her draft business plan and throws it in the bin* Oh well

Arica Storaro

Here is an except from the public groupchat of said group. I think the statements are pretty damn obvious.

[2012/05/24 16:07] Harper Beresford: and I am not going to give it to you because it will come out soon enough
[2012/05/24 16:07] Harper Beresford: Loona, you need to get the full story
[2012/05/24 16:07] Liliandra Baxter: Never had problems with her skins so I am happy
[2012/05/24 16:07] Pugbug Bing: which one is the hush demo?
[2012/05/24 16:07] Finch Oodles: Adventures of Larlton the larl
[2012/05/24 16:08] Harper Beresford: boo
[2012/05/24 16:08] Harper Beresford: no blog links in here
[2012/05/24 16:08] Harper Beresford: well excepot me
[2012/05/24 16:08] Harper Beresford: let me share with you
[2012/05/24 16:08] Liliandra Baxter: LOL
[2012/05/24 16:08] Ramses Meredith: LOL
[2012/05/24 16:08] Maxxi Toxx: lol
[2012/05/24 16:08] Harper Beresford: please read thkis
[2012/05/24 16:08] Liliandra Baxter: and that is why I love Harper.
[2012/05/24 16:09] salmenah: I'm lost ..what happened?
[2012/05/24 16:09] LittleOneRiver: i cant bring it up
[2012/05/24 16:10] Ramses Meredith: huhu
[2012/05/24 16:10] Harper Beresford: this blog link explains some things.
[2012/05/24 16:10] Myndi Meredith: oh holy crap...
[2012/05/24 16:10] Liliandra Baxter: So is that why curio is not around?
[2012/05/24 16:10] Loona Deezul: thx but that hush store is new
[2012/05/24 16:10] Anabella Ravinelli: ouch
[2012/05/24 16:10] Loona Deezul: that avatar is 500 days old.
[2012/05/24 16:10] Harper Beresford: Read the whole thing
[2012/05/24 16:10] Anabella Ravinelli: read the post
[2012/05/24 16:10] Harper Beresford: this was a legally binding action. as in RL
[2012/05/24 16:10] Ramses Meredith: eh that's why people dont' have to follow a well know brand only...
[2012/05/24 16:10] Harper Beresford: as in RL courts
[2012/05/24 16:11] Ramses Meredith: but being sure abotu creativity
[2012/05/24 16:11] Harper Beresford: as in this is why you have to be careful what you think
[2012/05/24 16:11] Harper Beresford: and see and hear
[2012/05/24 16:11] Anabella Ravinelli: good for her for getting her stuff backed up and showing proof in RL
[2012/05/24 16:12] Ramses Meredith: but the worse part is that she had to do this
[2012/05/24 16:12] Anabella Ravinelli: yep
[2012/05/24 16:12] Anabella Ravinelli: I HATE thieves, but dont' get me started, I won't stop
[2012/05/24 16:13] Anabella Ravinelli: I equally hate those who accuse others of theft just to get the sales Glad that the courts helped her out here
[2012/05/24 16:13] Jewell Infinity: and i love the kelis skin kinda glad i got it already
[2012/05/24 16:13] LittleOneRiver: click click click! I cant get it!
[2012/05/24 16:13] Liliandra Baxter: Well I find it hard to dislike anyone...the problem seems to be getting resolved...hopefully we'll have curio back one of these days and hopefully hush doesn't go anywhere
[2012/05/24 16:14] Adora Whitesong: eeek what's happened?
[2012/05/24 16:14] AngeliqueLaAngel: curio has left sl?
[2012/05/24 16:14] o0Nani0o Adored: what?
[2012/05/24 16:14] o0Nani0o Adored: what?
[2012/05/24 16:15] Anabella Ravinelli: well hate is a strong word, I don't mean I hate the person, I hate what they do when that happens
[2012/05/24 16:15] Ramses Meredith: no curio seem have copybotted skins
[2012/05/24 16:15] Nadja Baxter: lol thats a joke
[2012/05/24 16:15] Nadja Baxter: be carefully what you say
[2012/05/24 16:15] Anabella Ravinelli: its real Nadja courts proved
[2012/05/24 16:15] salmenah: but a lot of skins look alike so how do they know?
[2012/05/24 16:15] Ramses Meredith: nadia i am carefull i explain why i told this word
[2012/05/24 16:15] Sparkysgal Blackheart: here what harper posted a min ago..
[2012/05/24 16:16] Sparkysgal Blackheart: [16:08] Harper Beresford: no blog links in here
[16:08] Harper Beresford: well excepot me
[16:08] Harper Beresford: let me share with you
[16:08] Harper Beresford: http://hushskins.wordpress.com/copyrightinfringement/
[2012/05/24 16:16] Ramses Meredith: since he have used same things of hush he can have only copybotting the skin
[2012/05/24 16:16] Nadja Baxter: cala phonix is a great and wonderful skindesihner since 2005
[2012/05/24 16:16] Nadja Baxter: designer
[2012/05/24 16:16] salmenah: that's not what it says...it say curio had an injuncetion put on hush
[2012/05/24 16:16] Liliandra Baxter: I never thought they looked alike to be honest but then again its been awhile since I actually bought a curio skin
[2012/05/24 16:16] LittleOneRiver: ty Sparkysgal
[2012/05/24 16:16] Ramses Meredith: lili this show how many peopel think to love a skin more than another but are form same source
[2012/05/24 16:17] Ramses Meredith: i heard people telling curio skisn was better than hush skin but since are from same source...
[2012/05/24 16:17] Croon Nandahar: It's fair to say that I'm completely freakin' shocked.
[2012/05/24 16:17] Anabella Ravinelli: just makes me sick, i really loved curio skins
[2012/05/24 16:17] Liliandra Baxter: I didn't say one was better than the other....I've just been a shopper at Hush more
[2012/05/24 16:18] Ramses Meredith: anabella well u have lvoe skin s fo somebody else then haha
[2012/05/24 16:18] o0Nani0o Adored: wow that is bonkers
[2012/05/24 16:18] AngeliqueLaAngel: thank you for the information im numb
[2012/05/24 16:18] Nadja Baxter: never hear anythink from hush skins
[2012/05/24 16:18] Anabella Ravinelli: haha I love skins from many places!
[2012/05/24 16:18] Ramses Meredith: sorry if i seem harsh but what is killing sl is all these dramatic situations that make many great creators to leave every day
[2012/05/24 16:18] Anabella Ravinelli: I agree Ramses
[2012/05/24 16:18] Jewell Infinity: Hush are always advertising
[2012/05/24 16:19] Nadja Baxter: cala was a imported skindesigner since years
[2012/05/24 16:19] Anabella Ravinelli: Hush used to be Vixen
[2012/05/24 16:19] Anabella Ravinelli: Vixen was around before Curio
[2012/05/24 16:19] Ramses Meredith: hush had to battle to show she was right
[2012/05/24 16:19] Jewell Infinity: wdf i say
[2012/05/24 16:19] Master Source: this stuff isnt killing sl. THere are juist not so many new people joining SL, which makes the amount of potentional customers lower..that makes it hard. Not some stuff here... that 99% of the customers are not aware of
[2012/05/24 16:19] Ramses Meredith: wdf means
[2012/05/24 16:19] salmenah: who knows if what the blog says is even true and it even went to court??
[2012/05/24 16:20] Arica Storaro: How come it takes a person 4 years (first release of Curio skins was in 2008 if I remember correctly, the current line) to realize her stuff was 'stolen'? O.o I kinda don't get that. Really? 4 years?
[2012/05/24 16:20] Jewell Infinity: typo lol
[2012/05/24 16:20] Nadja Baxter: oh wow this skinshowcase has a realy great start
[2012/05/24 16:20] Sparkysgal Blackheart: well im lost whats all going on. but i think it is best to leave it to the main ppl that was in it. and for all of us. we go on and buy the items we like.........

later on:

[2012/05/24 16:38] Nadja Baxter: i donīt belive that
[2012/05/24 16:38] Master Source: where?
[2012/05/24 16:38] Harper Beresford: well go look, Nadja
[2012/05/24 16:38] Harper Beresford: Go to curio
[2012/05/24 16:38] Sparkysgal Blackheart: go look thre nothing there .....
[2012/05/24 16:38] Harper Beresford: go to truth
[2012/05/24 16:38] Master Source: other grids?
[2012/05/24 16:38] Master Source: the MP?
[2012/05/24 16:38] Harper Beresford: who knows
[2012/05/24 16:38] Harper Beresford: off mp yes
[2012/05/24 16:39] BellaRose Melody: oh yeah there a few places like SL..they could go to lol
[2012/05/24 16:39] Mackey Macchi: who was she stealing from so i can go buy from that person now >_>
[2012/05/24 16:39] BellaRose Melody: Hush
[2012/05/24 16:39] Master Source: hush skins
[2012/05/24 16:39] Master Source: (not even sure which store that is ...ill just act like i know it)
[2012/05/24 16:39] Master Source: yeah..hush is good stuff!
[2012/05/24 16:39] Maxxi Toxx: lol
[2012/05/24 16:39] BellaRose Melody: which I didn't think they looked the same, but apparently they were
[2012/05/24 16:40] aida Ewing: people.... Please open your eyes
[2012/05/24 16:40] Master Source: always get my stuff there!
[2012/05/24 16:40] Sparkysgal Blackheart: LM in my picks Master. can go check it out lol.
[2012/05/24 16:40] Master Source: cool.. Im gonna be such a hot hush chick soon when ive went there
[2012/05/24 16:40] Jewell Infinity: lol master
[2012/05/24 16:40] Sparkysgal Blackheart: hehe .. can i have pics? master
[2012/05/24 16:40] Ramses Meredith: aida are u going to do a strip tease?
[2012/05/24 16:40] Anabella Ravinelli: lol
[2012/05/24 16:41] Harper Beresford: let the courts take care of this... it's a legal issue.. in RL
[2012/05/24 16:41] Harper Beresford: and it will do its work
[2012/05/24 16:41] Master Source: gossip is fun though

Talking about LEGAL actions in rl (when there CANNOT be any actual real proof of that for anyone of us really) is a very brave decision in this case, given how some people are easily influenced obviously and instantly will believe and follow anything that has been said by people with some influence and then go spread the word. Even I was inclined to give my fangirldom for Curio some doubt.

Rosemaery Lorefield

That was my thought too. Why would a creator trust a group with their original files? I sure wouldn't.
An auditing thing might be nice but two things- How would the auditing body prove trustworthiness to handle original files, and how would they convey this to consumers? The approval has to matter to the buyers.

Misty Harley

I stopped visiting Skin Addiction for skins because Hush was there front and center at the landing point. It just felt wrong. And no offense to Curio, but when the shit hit the fan on this (and even though Curio had not even planned to participate in this event..so really it's a non-matter for her) Skin Addiction should have pulled Hush from the event immediately until the situation was resolved.

By not doing that, they stamped their support on the Hush skins and are accomplices (lack of better wording) to allowing others access to buy what very well are (ok..fine...PC and all 'could be') ripped from not just one but most likely two different creators. Which means that they are not a trusted source to do the right thing by not only the other shop owners who participated but the buyers as well. Hush from front and center....promoted if you will.

And no, a Linden person coming in and removing content and one side getting a 7 day ban does not result in resolved situation.

And the Harper connection confuses me....she run the event?


And now this is getting really long.....but I can see people not know who Curio is OR Hush for that matter. Not everyone reads blogs, etc or those who like one, the other or both. Which is another reason Skin Addiction should have pulled them from the event. People assume everything there is on the up and up. The people who run the event KNEW this was going on. They can't hide behind 'lack of knowledge' on this particular issue.

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Elysium Hynes

I see again Harper acting less then professional in her events organization.

ETA i agree with you Arica tbh after the FFL bs she should have learned a bit.

Sione

No offense Arica but your posts are starting to get a bit confusing.

There are 2 issues and groups (Harper and Content Creators Association) being talked about here at the moment and you are not being very clear about which one you are talking about at times. It takes a bit to figure it out when you use terms such as "said group".

Elysium Hynes

I thin her last posts are about the Skin Adiction group and Harperīs actions as an event organizer.

Arica Storaro

No clue what the FFL thing is/was. This was the first time that I actually ever noticed something just going entirely -wrong- (imho!) in that group, but then again, I usually never cared all too much and probably missed out on a lot of things.