Aodhan McDunnough

You speak as if they didn't know how to reverse engineer stuff.

I say irrelevant because the data they gather is limited to what a single client can pick up. Granted they can easily log in like a Linden they are still limited to information available to a single client.

This is as opposed to getting cooperation from the provider because then alterations can be deployed to ALL the residents through a mandatory upgrade. Now THAT is where you can get tremendous amounts of data without touching the servers.

Addendum:

I just realized that Open Source SL would be a hindrance rather than a boon to the spies. If they wanted to deploy spy code to all the residents, the client being open source means that the SL-OS community will have a very good chance of spotting the spyware and someone can raise warning flags. So the spies will have to design the code to look very ordinary, this means that their ability to spy will be more limited. Now if LL would remove the spy code from the OS releases that would mean that 1) the OS clients aren't monitored, and 2) if terrorists simply select an OS client they won't be client-monitored.

Working with a closed core application (like WoW) will make it many times more difficult to out the spying.

Dancien Graves

I wonder if Al Qaeda in SecondLife is taken as a group title...

detrius

I was using Anonymous as a concrete example for an online movement that has started to influence the real world because their recent anti-Scientology protests are exactly the kind of activity that sparks the interest of such paranoid organizations as intelligence agencies. No matter how legitimate it might be, it is "suspicious behavior" and "needs to be monitored".

As for the FBI's evaluation of Anon - I think "mostly harmless" translates to "partially dangerous" in agent lingo and the prospect of those kids being grown-ups in ten years is all the justification they need for snooping around and examining their social networks.

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Daisy Rimbaud

Killing people indiscriminately is vandalism?

Daisy Rimbaud

You can post comparative pictures of the Taj Mahal and an freebie house in SL - fact is, they're still both buildings.

Terrorism and griefing are both disruptive behavior characterized by a lack of any care for the rights or well-being of others.

Oh, and remember that terrorism is sometimes only an attack on property, not on life.

detrius

Lucifer Baphomet

We should all start Al Qaeda amd Islamic Jihad RP groups in SL

Daisy Rimbaud

So what is that supposed to prove? That all terrorist activity ends in pools of blood? Come on!

Dancien Graves

Let me help you out here since you seem confused.
Griefing:
• Online
• Nobody actually dies
• Easily fixed
• Preventative measures can be taken
• Done by unloved, socially autistic, losers hanging out in their mom’s basement

Terrorism:
• People die
• Not easily fixed in terms of property damage
• Not online
• Not easily fixed
• Can happen pretty much anywhere.
• Done by crazy religious/political nutjobs

Joshua Nightshade

I'm sorry Dancien but I have it on good authority, in fact, that griefing is exactly like terrorism.

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Dancien Graves

I got like 3 paragraphs into that and started getting stigmata. Don't make me go there again.

Clancy Sullivan

If I was a gubament investigator man I'd sure be looking at those GOREAN sims. (WINK-WINK)

Brenda Archer

Repeat after me: there is no such thing as BDSM Mind Control.

Psyke Phaeton

there is no such thing as BDSM Mind Control.

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Ingrid N

Ahem.

Yeah, I don't know, either.

Daisy Rimbaud

This is mostly just the difference between online and offline environments. If the damage done by griefers could NOT be easily fixed, do you think they would stop doing it?

I don't see why this bothers you so much - it's not as if I'm saying griefing is exactly the same as terrorism. But if someone attempted to perform acts of terrorism in SL so far as the system would allow it, they would be called griefers. What's so difficult about that?

Aodhan McDunnough

I think we better quit with the this-or-that mentality with respect to labels like griefing and terrorism.

Griefing, vandalism, terrorism, serial-killings (etc), and bullying (in case you missed it) all have similarities, have differences, and one important thing to note: they do not enjoy mutual exclusivity.

So while you cannot equate griefing and terrorism you also cannot fully separate them. There are points where they overlap. It's a matter of perception and public view. It also differs with the perceptions of the one doing the action.

Can we stop with the hair-splitting now?

Aodhan McDunnough

To add:

At this time griefing would generally be causing trouble in a single online world (like SL). Terrorism would generally be causing trouble that affects a RL region (whether the trouble is online or RL) enough to merit national attention (e.g. 9/11 or the suicide bombings in Iraq).

In this light a serial killer is considered a criminal but can be considered a terrorist also. But the label is likely to be stuck on and removed several times over the life of the killing spree.

Right now we can usually separate the greifing and terrorism. But I will cite DOS attacks. They have been used to knock out online games and services (griefing/bullying). Carried out on a larger scale it can also be a terrorist weapon.

In summary, they're somewhat arbitrary labels. They can be attached or removed. It all depends on the people who are affected.

Brenda Archer

LOL, thanks. That was great.

Brenda Archer

Oh I so am going to rip that image for my forum avatar. Thank you

Io Zeno

Uh, #4 and #6 are pretty easy, actually.