Phoebe Avro

Bot

Faithless Babii

Im really wrestling with this...on one hand I can see the sense. Its a bit like switching lights off when you leave a room (simple terms, Im a simple person)
On the other, if its going to cause lag or script issues on my rental sims...as residents arrive..I can foresee complaints (and quite rightly so).

Someone else mentioned as private estates pay a lot more for a sim..why not leave this for mainland- suck it and see...its making me feel antsy paying so much more and having corners cut to what end really?

Hitomi Tiponi

The thing is you should never know it has happened to your sim at all. It doesn't have to crank itself back up to speed, it goes back to normal speed within milliseconds as soon as someone enters, or even looks into your sim according to Simon Linden. It is not like Kitely where the sim has to be started, and takes a few seconds. I have no doubt that there will be some scripting/networking issues to be sorted out, but hopefully people on the Release Channels will give it a good workout first.

It's like asking if a tree falls in the forest when no-one is there does it make a sound - as long as it doesn't squash anything do we really care!

Ann Otoole

Until it gets stuck in idle mode and nobody is at LL to fix it.

Qie Niangao

I don't think Mainland would be much of a test because, as I mentioned above, I doubt many Mainland sims will be eligible to go idle much of the time, compared to void-surrounded islands -- and I don't expect the results to be all that impressive even when the whole grid is participating.

If all the sims on a host aren't running the idle-enabled code, there will be even less opportunity for any of them to benefit. And the objective is supposed to be to benefit (currently) busy sims that share a host with (currently) idle sims, not to save anything.

Assuming it works the way it's supposed to (big "if", granted) there shouldn't be any observable delay when the first agent arrives in a sim: it should be up to speed long before the teleport screen is clear, and should already be at full speed long before anybody could fly in a vehicle.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what's to prevent scripts building up a queue full of events to process when their sim comes out of idle.

As to the scripts themselves, well... I can dream up scripts that would be unhappy on idle sims. My examples aren't very practical, unless there are sims used as compute-servers for long calculations while nobody is around.

Incidentally, I wasn't thinking of bots when I mentioned an "obvious" way to exclude a sim from idling. That would certainly work, but I had in mind a simple script doing a pointless llHTTPRequest() to nowhere every second or so. That's as close to a no-op as makes no difference anyway.

LeeLee

well one of the regions i have in zindra is blue, 2 av's on it, not bots, and a sim that used to stay at .99 has trouble stying above ,53 with me standing here watching the stats, don't anybody tell me it's good again grrrrrrr, and no at how much i'm paying a month i'm not gonna be patient while they work out the bugs either

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The Leaky Oil Pan Bar & Dance Hall

LeeLee

oh forgot 2 main agents and 5 child, and i can't even freaking walk

edited, nvm it crashed, easier to fix that way i guess

Hana

are you open to the fact that some badly scripted sex furniture you might have out.. could be causing the problem? and are you willing to pick it up?

Now.. i admit.. i'm not a total expert on why a sims time dilation would drop that low... however.. whenever i've seen that happen its because someone has some badly scripted something or another on their land. Like their 20 amazing, bubble fountains, that's been scripted by someone who is incompetent or careless, or too new to script it properly.

Anyway, there are some really clever people here who might be willing to come over to your land and look and see if something obvious is causing your issue. It might be something you can fix yourself without LL's help. Because it might be something you or one of your friends caused, by rezzing out a few 'bad' items.

but like i said.. i'm no expert. so. i suppose it could be "entirely LL's fault that your land is running like crap"...

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Tengu Yamabushi

Could this be as much (or perhaps more) about shaving some colo expenses (power consumption, both from servers and cooling same) from LL's expenses (adding to the bottom line) as it is about 'improving the experience'?

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LeeLee

no hana as a mater of fact i'm not open to it because a region i have on old mainland is doing the same thing

LeeLee

ok eating crow so far, all my regions are now le tigre so it's not the throttling thats the problem, so i apologise to any rubbing the wrong or right way this morning, and i'm just gonna go back to lurking

Qie Niangao

I doubt it. Seems unlikely they'd ever get the CPUs running slow enough to step down the power. Be very good if they did, however; if Apple isn't green enough, Second Life running everywhere at full power consumption with no users is about as non-green as one can get.

Incidentally, I found one sim where I have land (Mosh) that's running Bluesteel. It has 5 main and 13 child agents at the moment, and over 13ms -- more than half the frame -- is Spare Time, as usual.

Kara Spengler

While not a tear was shed.

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Void

Yes, sorry, didn't mean to imply you

a good thought, but I think there may be a few summer cabins and roads in the way of those falling trees....

presumably with the region frame rate reduced, event generation would also be reduced, so no obvious problem there...

as for scripts unhappy on idle? anything scheduled on the long timers we fought for years to get people to use would be my first bet (some of which may only be cursory, but "feedables" may be an issue), transit service scripts like bus and rail lines would be second. scripts that phone out (like your suggested example) may be next on the list. scripts attempting to set up HTTP reception may also behave spottily (but theoretically should be fine once they have their url and ready to receive)... and depending on the idle timeout, update vendors and product servers have potential to be affected by it as well.

but many a rant will be raved if it causes problems for others (like past pileups that I am not convinced were caused by changes to SL)

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- These eyes can do more than see

Qie Niangao

Only certain events even could trigger in an idle-eligible sim. Nothing originating from avatars such as touch should happen, and anything from the network would "wake" the sim. I'd expect (non-avatar) collisions and sensors to slow with the frame rate, as you suggest, but I'd expect timers to (try to) trigger on the next frame after their interval expires. If the timer-driven script does a bunch of processing (or within-sim inter-script comms, resulting in a chain of processing), I was thinking that timer-triggered processing would slow, too. But maybe not; maybe it continues to compete unhindered for processing time, and thus maybe more scripts can get a slice of these longer-duration frames. That would probably be the simpler way to do it, in fact.

Presumably, scripts that explicitly relinquish the processor for the rest of the frame with llSleep() will need to wait longer before they get another time slice on an idle sim. That's probably not a common practice. (Come to think of it: Can scripts dequeue multiple timer events in the same frame? Is that even possible?) I'm just casting about for ways that, on idle sims, timer events might gradually fill queues that are normally cleared within a frame or two.

Adeon Writer

So the simulation... Stops?

Trees won't fall when no one's looking?

Siggy

In the case of some things in SL it might be:

'When a tree falls in a forest......everybody cheers'

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And as it was in the beginning, so too shall it be in the end. That bullshit is bullshit, it just goes by different names.

Jack Abraham

LeeLee, if you'd like to PM me the regions, I'll be happy to come and see if I can figure out what's happening. I enjoy that kind of thing.

Pathfinder

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Ann Otoole

Actually it would be kind of cool if the grid ran on some sort of massive super computing system (cloud?) and it no longer mattered how many people were in a region.

Argent Stonecutter

Or just run a script that makes a network connection now and then.

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Argent Stonecutter -- Skyhook Station -- Coonspiracy Store

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."


The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

LeeLee

thanks for offering but i'm not gonna worry about it, they can have the land back

Jopsy Pendragon

They should have called it "Lag Migration" or something else. "We're going to let unpopulated regions take more than their fair share of lag so that populated regions can have a little less."

Personally, I'm rather fond of the idea.

Jahar Aabye

I have updater servers on our sim that have long timers set to ping our offworld webservers every hour to keep the RPC connection live (since there are situations where the connection can get broken if too much time passes between requests). That's in addition to the update requests that are going to be passed to the in-world update servers every time someone attaches an out-of-date product, and that's in addition to the network traffic to the vendor server every time someone purchases a product or even rewuests a notecard from an affiliate vendor in another sim. It sounds like a lot of network traffic, but it tends to be fairly spaced out, not enough to cause network problems under most situations, but...

It makes me question the actual utility of this feature. At some point the actual overhead for idling the region up and down repeatedly when it's getting networm requests at irregular intervals plus the guaranteed requests every hour from a few boxes (ah, I also don't know offhand when theyy ping relative to each other, since that timer is getting esset when I make script changes, which isn't that often).

Granted, there are storss there too, so there will usually be avatars there making it unlikely to go idle, but when there's nobody there, the pinging at irregular intervals is going to play hell with this idling setup, it'll wind up spinning back up and then idling back down every few minutes, most likely.

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He pulled a Captain Ahab and Jaharpwn'ed her. - Trout

Hana

Not in the nicest mood today so maybe i shouldn't even be posting, but...

Your response makes me think you don't want to have to face that fact that perhaps... /some/ part of your mega lag issues are "your own fault", or the fault of one of your friends, who's constantly on your land, or who's rezzed something.

Now you might not know its your fault... a bit like ... my sister's computer.. its /always/ "lagging" (not in SL, she doesn't play SL, but in general), because she doesn't even know how to practice "good" computer habits and has 50 million bits of spyware on her computer that are making it drag. Instead of learning how to be a more aware computer user, she just complains about "Stupid microsoft making crap stuff".

and your words sound like that to me. There are all sorts of badly scripted items out in the world of SL. Some, so bad, that even a /single/ one of them rezzed can lag a sim to hell... and that's not "the fault of Linden Lab", its the fault of the bad (or newbie) scripter. Or the fault of the person who rezzed (or is wearing) the badly scripted item. Seriously. a sim can come to a grinding halt just from one person TPing in, if they are wearing enough really bad resizer scripts in their hair, shoes, prim accessories, coat... etc

Anyway... i am sorry you are having (or were having) a bad time with your SL land. Like i am sorry my sister constantly has "computer issues". But if you're not even potentially interested in learning what is/was the real issues... i'm not sure what to make of that.

Jack offered to help you.. maybe you'd have learnt something. Or maybe you'd'ave been vindicated and he'd come back and say "Yep its completely all LL's fault these sims are lagging". Who knows.. but odd (to me) you don't even want to find out what may be the real source of this persistent issue for you.

that, or maybe you're exaggerating the time dilation and don't want someone coming over and seeing how much you exaggerated the issue here.