Lucifer Baphomet

Actually in the case of Thorne v Motor Trade Association [1937] The threat of being put on a Trade association's blacklist was prosecuted as blackmail.

So yeah, both parties are indeed indulging in forms of blackmail.

Dictionaries are great,, but they offer no depth.

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Lucifer Baphomet

Actually according to section 21(1) of the 1968 Theft Act Blackmail is described thus...

Now, I'd say both Monkey, and Greenzone believe their demands are indeed warranted.. while the other party in each case believes they are not.

bladyblue

Noun: exhortation
|ˌegˌzor'tey‑shun|
A communication intended to urge or persuade the recipients to take some action
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Yes, a more pleasant word for it.

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Lucifer Baphomet

Much as I tend to think Lias is full of shit...

Sorry, her use of the word blackmail is indeed correct here.

An accusation of blackmail is indeed valid... from both sides.

Of course I doubt either side would stand up to legal scrutiny on that basis.

KT Kingsley

So you reckon exhortation is the same as extortion or blackmail, but just a more pleasant word for it?

Let me blackmail you: get a clue.

Lucifer Baphomet

Jesus fuck.

You people made me defend Lias over her use of the word blackmail.

I FUCKING HOPE YOU'RE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

Lucifer Baphomet

An exhortation does not involve pressure...

Think "heartfelt plea", Lias.

Beezle Warburton

I think you should now self-flagellate with a leek as penance.

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bladyblue

Or what?

bladyblue

An offer I can't refuse.

Lucifer Baphomet

Not quite...

Exhortation is often used in this way...

"Great Khan, I exhort thee. Yes, kill the men, yes rape the women, yes, take the children into bondage, but please, please, show mercy to my yak, for it hath done no harm."

Ceka Cianci

the GZ hud was designed to allow the user to detect if they were being scanned..it's more of a personal device more than anything..it helped a lot in the RZ days with detecting redzone scanners..
the group mainly just helped with explaining how to protect a user with viewer and sl tips as well as online security as well..what to look out for inworld that would take you off the grid..like clicking on objects that take you to links outside the grid and how to block from visiting certain sites..things like that..

the voodoo anti-bot would call in chat the name of the avatar that was accused of being a bot..
since members in the group were called bots who were not bots and people joining the group to tell the group they had been named as bots in general chat it was breaking the TOS..
i'm not sure if it was put on the GZ hud before that or not since i had just gotten back from summer break..
but the group members and anyone else has every right to protect themselves against something that was naming them as bots to the public..

i'm sure no matter what is going on with this monkey person..if the product is not doing something that will harm people or their privacy that they will remove it from the list..
thats all unya was finding out..the group was not active and lots of members left because things had gotten so quiet..
then this notecard came and now people decided to join back up because he decided to do something that a zfire would do rather than let the group take him off the hud..they just wanted to know that members and users would be safe around it is all..
we still have a right to protect ourselfs if we feel there is a risk to our privacy inworld or out as well if the door to the threat exists in world..

people thought RZ was not against the TOS and it was AR'd over and over and finally banned and the TOS reworded..
GZ is not out to run people out of business..most of the time they end up doing that to themelves..most of the time with things like what monkey did..
that was a self destructive move..one he really didn't have to make..
he would probably be off the hud and none of this going on..
now he put doubts in a lot of peoples minds about a lot of things..

if his products are not a threat to me or to anyone else worried about their own security..then i think it should be taken off..the hud is not about him..it's about protecting ourselves against things that put us at risk or gives out false or true personal information..
defimation of avatars being bots that are not bots in public chat is untrue..

either way his actions just show either he didn't want his stuff taken off or he has something to hide or he wants to play some game which we won't play with him..that or he is just picking a fight..

he was in the group..he seen how inactive it was for months..
if a couple of people gave him problems then why wake up the whole house rather than deal with those individuals? most everyone was sleeping and had not said a word in months to him..

myself i forgot about the group and even being in it until monkey reminded me about it all..
all i ever said to him was..can my husband and me play one of your sploders when we go to a club and one of us not be called a bot?
he never answered..
any fun i have made of him in this thread is because he felt the need to make a threat because of a group that i am in that i go in and help people with their security questions..

i'm not leaving the group because he thinks he can scare me off it because his hud is gonna say lies about me..

i just think he see's this as free advertizing..
and truthfully i would much rather see things taken off the hud rather than put on..
mainly because it shows they respect more than just the ones that are giving them money..plus these things never do end well anyways..

really i just hope things calm down so he can be taken off and we get taken off..
and this whole mess be gone..
thats gonna take pride getting sucked up in a few places..hopefully we see some dirt devils getting turned on here soon and pride getting sucked up..
much rather see a happy ending than something that may drag out all summer long hehehe

Tyabela

This thread for me has become sort of like a train wreck. You don't want to look. You know its going to be ugly. But you just keep coming back and looking.

Cristiano

For the person who disagreed that extortion and blackmail are synonyms:

Extortion | Define Extortion at Dictionary.com

extortion - definition of extortion by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

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Cristiano

BTW, this semantic clusterfuck is really annoying.

bladyblue

Out of the blue? Because of nothing at all?

But why didn't you just take him off the HUD after he made the initial changes to his product Unya asked for? That would have shown good faith on Greenzone's part.

He was not the initial aggressor. It was a response to bad treatment from Greenzone members.

He tried going to Unya about it. She refused to investigate and dismissed him. I am sure she would not have liked it if he ignored her requests when she asked him to change his products to meet her standards.

When several people from the same watchdog group you have complied with start IMing you about your products - you would get a little paranoid also. When he went to Inya about that and some griefing from GZ, he got no results.

Its bad Greenzone leadership that allowed GZ members to continue to flame him in this thread.

More extortion.

You don't have to participate in dragging this on through the summer - no one in Greenzone does. It makes the group look petty and vengeful - against a guy who initially cooperated with you.

Mr. B

Thanks.

Casey Pelous

Y U ANTI-SEMANTIC?

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Cristiano

I take offense to that. I love the JUICE:

Qie Niangao

Indeed I doubt many GZ wearers ever even encountered the Voodoo shit before this thread. Granted, Greenzone has had privacy concerns with the products all along, but until now, I've never heard anything more about it.

With this, Greenzone becomes by far the best promoter of Voodoo products; Monkey just had to shake it a bit to get it started.

Thing is, Voodoo walks the thinnest possible line around the TOS on several fronts, not just privacy (which is rightfully Greenzone's only concern). I doubt it would pass thorough scrutiny on grounds of traffic gaming, as well as gambling--but Lindens have carefully avoided scrutinizing such things for their favored "merchants" in the past.

Unya Tigerfish

I think I should clear up some misconceptions.

First, GZ is not out to ruin anyone's day or business, nor do we issue 'threats'. GZ gives support and information to those concerned about their privacy. Since in the past those that wanted to sniff out people in SL hid their products, the GZ HUD was chosen as a means to inform people whenever they were getting close to a potential threat to their privacy.

Before we add some gadget to the detection list of the HUD, some research is taking place. Back in spring 2011 Voodoo sploders were added, back then for good reason (details well known/also available on request).

Usually, in the progress of such a research, the maker of the gadget is contacted. The attitude of these makers towards us varies, between the polite and constructive Zen and the foulmouthed arrogant zFire. Monkey wonder was in fact often in the GZ group and answered our questions there... (and there admitted for example to the gathering of alt account information data and the sharing of such alt information data within his staff, which are also SL residents). Monkey's attitude varied, some days he was friendly, some days he was abusive. Well, he's a human after all.

In the end, Voodoo was added to the list of devices detected by GZ, that is the officers of GZ agreed after considering, that the threat to privacy is big enough to warrant such an addition, especially since Voodoo's own information was obfuscated by phrases like "WARNING: Voodoo will record your IP address to identify violations of TOS if you click on the link above". They are of course referring to their own Voodoo ToS - there is of course no Linden Labs ToS requesting you to give your IP/Avatar correlation to a 3rd party website!

Again, this is no threat. Just fact. Now, from that point on, the GZ HUD privately warns people approaching Voodoo sploders that they may threaten your privacy. Privately! No line in local chat!

Was Monkey Wonder annoyed by that? Oh yes! How do we know?
Well, for one constant harassment of GZ members and officers by him (he labels this 'retaliation') speaks a clear language.
Also, his attempts to obfuscate and evade the GZ HUD detection (by renaming the products to 'vudu' or using an alt as creator of the root prim) are telltale signs that they are hurting his business.

Were there threats? No.

How funny. If any avatar in SL said to me as a content creator: "I would suggest you change your product here and there to do this and that, it would improve your product.", were I the maker I would listen and think about the suggestion. If the content creator is above constructive ciriticism - well.

We raise awareness to potential threats to privacy. We inform people. If informed people are making the informed decision to avoid such products, or the places using them - Well!

I am happy to discuss the reasons why Voodoo was added to the GZ HUD detection. I am also happy and ready to bury the hatchet and work to remove Voodoo detection from the GZ HUD if our concerns are addressed.

But by blatant lies (DOS attacks!) and threatening notecards, by defamation of currently over 1000 members of the GZ group just because of their group membership - it seems to me that Monkey Wonder is not willing to settle for talks. GZ officers have repeatedly offered talks. I alone did so twice.

Let me rephrase the core essence: this is not GZ griefing or threatening Monkey Wonder. This is not GZ attacking a merchant or 'blackmailing' a merchant. This is Monkey Wonder and his products doing privacy invasions and GZ EXPOSING them.

Did you notice that Monkey Wonder is always skirting the core issue of the privacy threat by his products and always only focusses on the perceived 'griefing' by Greenzone? He does not address those issues, as there is little room for him to argue there - he DOES those things!

Instead Monkey and his supporters try to turn the table and make this appear as if a vigilante group is attacking an innocent merchant, to distract from his own actions.

bladyblue

wow, really Unya?

I think you should try it again, but this time use the version where you take responsibility.

Joshua Nightshade

Oh man, Lias telling someone else to take responsibility for things. Oh man, oh man.

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bladyblue

You have concoted a scheme to destroy a profitable business that took him years to develop. Of course he is annoyed.

I feel a petition coming on.

why would you announce proudly that your actions are hurting a merchant's business? I hope the Lindens are reading this.

You had praised him for doing just that several pages ago. And now you are back to re-write history so you appear reasonable and blameless.

diabolical. You are really enjoying the course of action you are taking.

So now you aren't only threatening monkey's business, but you are threatening the business of the people that buy his product.

So you wont remove him from your HUD until he does what you demand he does. Then you keep him on your HUD and he will keep Greenzone on his HUD. A good old fashion virtual Mexican Stand-off.

You also told him you have no control over griefers in your group because it's open enrollment. I believe that you are willing to talk when you set the agenda. You aren't willing to hear monkey's concerns. To you, his concerns are 'blatant lies.'

So now you exposed him. You pissed him off and he's gone postal. So you can leave him alone now. Im sure there are other merchants you can force your list of demands on.

But earlier in this thread you said he changed some things to meet your standards. Now you say he skirts the issue.

A vigilante group is attacking an innocent merchant. And you should stop. You aren't the grid police or a Linden Lab employee. Stop playing mall cop and use the Abuse Report system like every other resident.

Greenzone needs to elect some new officers.

Kara Spengler

Did you even read my post?

All they are doing is saying "your product does X" ... a truism.

They are saying "if your product does not do X we will not say your product does X" ..... also a truism.

Look at it this way:

"If you stick your hand in the fire you will get burned."

"If you do not stick your hand in the fire you will not get burned."

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