Adeon Writer

That is what the whole Direct Delivery/Inbox Folder thing is.

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Eunoli Rain

That's good news for multiple reasons.

Innula Zenovka

Probably I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that Direct Delivery only works with the Marketplace. Will it work for inworld objects using llGiveInventory, too?

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Trasee Darkwatch

I hope it does. It will help with many issues.

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Adeon Writer

My assumption was it would be used for ALL object transfers, even avie to avie. I didn't read that anywhere; I had just assumed that's what it was.

Cerise

The new system does route all incoming stuff to that inbox folder. Only a few Aditi regions are running that, and they coexist with regions that do not have that feature, so we will have to wait and see if the IM system will really be taken out of the loop. I suspect that it will still be there until new inventory functions are introduced. New functions for that have been discussed but not promised.

Amity Slade

I don't use Busy mode because (unless it's changed), if someone IMs me while I'm Busy, there is no record of what the IMed me or even that someone tried to contact to me. A Busy function would be useful to me if it saved IMs for me so I could see them when I became not Busy (even if IMs were just sent straight to e-mail, that would be great).

Just closing the IM window and ignoring the flashing IM icons is far more useful to me than Busy mode.

If the primary use of Invisibility mode would be to avoid certain means of griefing, then it would be of limited use if it treats IMs, for example, the same way as Busy mode. If I were online, but using Invisibility mode, for me it would be because I'm avoiding someone's tracking device, not because I don't want to socialize. If I were unable to receive and send IMs while Invisible, then it's not terribly useful to me.

Ideally, while Invisible, I would receive the IM, the sender would receive the "message stored for later message," but if I wanted to reply I could just explain I had invisibility mode set, I'm here despite the message.

If instead of one Invisibility mode, it were a set of options (do or do not receive IMs, do or do not be notified of IMs, be detected or not server-side, overrides for select friends), that would be great. That seems like too much to hope for (and I don't know the coding process, maybe that's far to complicated to do at this point).

Adeon Writer

I don't know if it was changed, but currently busy mode WILL generate IM's, it just makes no sound or flash and doesn't pop up on it's own.

However, any object you are sent goes directly to your trash without notification; and that's my reason for not using it.

bronxelf

The problem though is that the IM itself is the distraction. If I go through the trouble of being invisible, I don't want to hear from anyone unless they're on a pre-defined list of "people who can always contact me" (like the Gothika DJs.)

I'm fine with it shooting the IM to email so it doesn't take up storage space or anything, but I really just don't want the IM to pop up at me inworld at all unless and until I turn off invisibility.

Ultimately though, what I want is for viewers to be disallowed from showing "true online status" in profiles and such. It completely makes the entire point of having invisibility on any level utterly moot. People who use this function to act like jerks are generally not techy enough to script up a solution to work around it for themselves, and are relying on their viewer to stage an end run around the preferences set by the person they're so desperate to track down.

ETA: I would LOVE it if IMs went to email in busy mode, holy shit. This would solve the problem of losing them if you walk away and the viewer crashes.

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Kadah Coba

Its everything that an avatar is given. Unlike many that have talked about it, I've heard this directly from the team working on it. From what I understood, everything would be auto accepted in to the FT_INBOX sys folder.
I will ask for clarification regarding these cases for llGiveInventory and when other avatar is offline with capped IMs.

Kadah Coba

Don't they still get logged to file (if logging is enabled in the viewer)?

bronxelf

yes. but you have to remember who they came from, if you ever see it at all.

Let's say Im gone. five people IM me. 2 are people Ive never spoken to before. Viewer crashes while I'm out.

Sure it's logged, somewhere, but I don't even know *WHO* IMed me, never mind what the hell they wanted. The best you can hope for is they IM you again later, unless you want to (every time this happens, which is a lot) go into logs and sort by "last modified" and go rummaging that way. I don't know anyone who is going to do that every time they crash while theyre in busy- I know Im not. sending IMs direct to email in busy mode would make sure they all got through.

Darien Caldwell

I hope this is true. I kind of had the impression direct delivery was marketplace only as well. But I haven't really looked hard at it because of that assumption. I guess further investigation is called for. Thanks.

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pancake

Brilliantly said.

Sure there are techy people who can always get around things and there are people who would buy huds, and those too need to one day be addressed but the average user I don't think would do this even if they did know it was possible.

Yes there would be a lot of nice to haves; if IMs didn't pop up and went to email, if items were stored in another folder, if offlines didn't cap, but ultimately the real thing I want is for the viewers to default to respecting the permissions I set on my friends list. I don't think that's so much to ask. I really don't.

And if it is, then I think LL should have some sort of disclaimer on this function when you select it "Caution - although we allow you to decide if this person can see your online status or not, they can over ride your preferances by using a hud or simply by logging into a TPV viewer that is on our approved list"

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Eunoli Rain

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...dicator/676468
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...HUD410/2463688

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...ker-151/690435

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...ANYONE/1055208

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...-people/946401

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...Offline/326522

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p...ier-HUD/677735

That was just about 2 minutes of searches worth. I'd imagine if I really tried, I could find another 10 or more online spy/tracking huds that ignore status preferences. I think its more than a "would be nice" to ask that it be addressed as well as the TPVs. People who want to stalk are smart enough to search Marketplace. They don't have to write the code themselves.

Kadah Coba

It defiantly isn't marketplace only, that much I know for sure.

There are some people having a stink over it cause they either don't want an inbox or just don't want "yet another useless and undeletable system folder".

Innula Zenovka

Certainly that's the impression the wiki gives -- if you search for Direct Delivery, you find "Second Life Marketplace Direct Delivery," which starts by explaining There's no indication it's going to be used for anything else, which appears to be badly misleading.

pancake

Fair enough, I do agree the root problem should be fixed, I voted on this Jira and similar ones last year. I also voted against some of these features for Firestorm.

However my confidence that it will be fixed soon or even completely isn't all that high.

So as an interim measure until this gets completely officially fixed I still would like to see some voluntary measures by viewers to remove the ease of accessibility to it.

Issues like inventory getting capped, or directing IMs to email when I'm in appear offline, are the nice to haves where the ability to have my online status reflect and respect the settings I chose are more important to me personally.

eighthdwarf Checchinato

I doubt that, for all these years, you could make yourself "invisible" and appearing as "offline" despite being online. The only thing you could hide from was the friendslist online notifications (like "XY is online" "XY is offline" "XY is online"), and being located on the map, so that "XY" couldn't see where on the map you were. And that always has been enough SL privacy, imho. But, as I said, ymmv.

Online Notifiers using a simple script from the LSL wiki always were able to show whether you were online (as in, logged in) or not, once someone pasted your UUID or name into the script. True Online Status in profiles simply uses this LSL function.

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Qie Niangao

Okay, I'm confused. I've been referring to "New rate throttle on llGiveInventory". Is somebody saying the new throttle will be removed once Direct Delivery is in effect?

As I keep muttering, there's an underlying business cause that both helped make the throttle necessary and the check-online-status workaround appealing, which is that the largest subscription lists mostly consist of accounts that haven't logged in for years and never will again. No matter what storage is used for the stuff (or pointers to the stuff), the volume of pointless inventory transfers grows without bound, as long as old accounts are never retired, if scripts aren't able to determine online status.

But if LL is fine with accumulating an unbounded number of inventory transactions in service of a monotonically increasing number of long-dead accounts, then who am I to complain?

eighthdwarf Checchinato

Gosh. I know for sure that if I ever take my business out of limbo, I won't return to marketplace with it. Even in the past 4 years I've strongly prefered in-world shops over marketplace shops: If a seller has no shop in-world, then their product can be the only one of its kind and just the one item I've been looking for, nonetheless I wouldn't buy it.
You want me as customer? Have a shop (or at least a vendor) inworld.

Cerise

OK, so then you really don't have the foggiest idea how this works. The purpose of that flag was to stop the "Online" notice from appearing in profiles, that is the setting that Phoenix etc. have circumvented. It also hid it in people search back when the people search results has an online column and an online-only option.

The setting has nothing at all to do with the map, that is a separate per-entry flag that was added to the friends list when map for everybody went away.

There is no llName2Key in LSL. Emerald/Phoenix/etc. adds the missing link and perverts the intended use of the function.

eighthdwarf Checchinato

If you sez so…

Kadah Coba

AFAIK, the actual "direct delivery" part of Direct Delivery will only be Marketplace purchase to buyer's inventory. As a related function to this feature, LL is making all incoming items go in to the same inbox, and this will be the first part deployed which will be soon.

The llGiveInventory throttle is an unrelated fix for a serious exploit (and possibly well intentioned but overuse) that was causing high loads on backend systems. Might have been one of the causes why magic box deliveries would take up to 3 hours for me.

Sione

That's a really good point actually. Generally, under normal use the script only knows who to look up because an event has been triggered by the avatar being in the same region. (Or they have been added to a database such as subscriptions). Phoenix and stalker HUDS, are feeding keys manually inputted due to external key lookups/viewer knowledge.