Innula Zenovka

I was going by the discussion of the code over here, where Sione and Kadah seem to think it was jcool's code they were discussing. Doesn't really matter who wrote it, though, I guess.

What TPVs other than Phoenix do you say show people's online status regardless of how they've set their preferences?
Quite so, but this is nothing to do with being in busy mode. It's to do with vendors and messaging systems that only send stuff out to people who are showing as being online, in case their messages are capped since, if they are capped, offers by llGiveInventory will be discarded.

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Qie Niangao

There's some relevance between the Busy mode non-deliveries (by the system) and the "hide my online status" non-deliveries (by script), in that both would be self-inflicted by the recipient. I'd expect the second to cause about as much bitching as the first.

(Again, however, I don't much care, personally. I'm really only posting again to amuse Khamon.)

Sione

I don't think anyone really gives a shit about who put it in what griefer viewer first. JC put it in Emerald which was a mainstream viewer. It's also such a trivial piece of code.

This is all it is....

LL's normal code for showing online/offline
If LL code says they are offline.
Ask the bridge if they really are offline.....

Bridge uses LSL to bypass viewer serverside privacy restrictions
Bridge tells the viewer the result
Viewer shows result

Leah Mayo

I think the easiest way to go would be to forbid overriding privacy settings by viewer, but leave script functionality as is.

Void

because every message that every person who is not online is sent has to be stored, stored messages take up space. more messages, more storage, more space.

the solution to delivery woes is guaranteed delivery of inventory, regardless of status to an unusable folder... whenever you try to use or move the item from the folder you get your delivery message. this will however still cause extra usage of space, so unclaimed items would be taged with expiration dates... if it goes unclaimed for x time, it gets dumped.

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Aribeth Zelin

I've looked at profiles of people and it's said they were offline when they were really online - this is in firestorm.

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Adeon Writer

Firestorm respects privacy settings by choice. It knows they are online, but sees that they asked to be private so it lies to you.

This server change will fix it so the viewer isn't told the true status in the first place.

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eighthdwarf Checchinato

In general, "online" indicates a state of connectivity, while "offline" indicates a disconnected state. So, all "privacy" settings are void in "True Online Status"

Is the account connected to SL (aka logged in)? (Y/N) _
If yes: They are to be shown as ONLINE
If no: They are to be shown as OFFLINE.

For complying to these (in my books uncalled-for, but ymmv) privacy settings, wouldn't a third status marker, e.g. "N/A" or "HIDDEN", do the same?

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Jack Abraham

Here's my tree, eighth:

Is Jack logged in to SL and willing to answer you if you IM him?
Yes: show as Hi!
No: show as – and answer any IM with "Fuck off."

pancake

Don't we have one?
I believe it's called APPEAR OFFLINE

When people aren't circumventing it that is.

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Inhandra

Wow. Just, wow.

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eighthdwarf Checchinato

I've never seen this in the few short times I was online with one of my alts since these "privacy settings" were introduced, and I have a habit of looking up nearly all profiles around me
(and no, with "profiles" I still don't mean web pages. In-world profiles load way faster than any page in the in-world browser, and are way smaller than the browser window)

Elysium Hynes

Khamon please share the pot man.

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pancake

OK ...
Maybe I'm thick, but as I understand the nature of Appear Offline, you wouldn't see my status as Appear Offline, but rather you'd see... Offline.

I'm not techy, but if I'm in Gtalk or Skype and choose to Appear Offline, people don't see me online. When I log into SL and set my preferences that only friends can see me online, or set my individual friends permissions to not be able to see my online status, I want to show as Offline.

Intuitively that's what I think the function means. I may be the least savvy person in SLU, but I'm not the least savvy person in SL, so I'm guessing average Ruths like me think that's how this feature works so I'd be thrilled if LL could address this. Either remove the misleading feature completely if it doesn't work or fix it so it does.

Edit to add - no new privacy settings were introduced - since 2007 I've had the option of turning off the eye icon that allows people on my friends list to see me online or not. I just want that to actually function. Is that so crazy?

Inhandra

You're not wrong. It's how privacy features everywhere work. "Appear offline" translates to everyone else that you are offline, period.

Eunoli Rain

Just correcting the viewers wouldn't stop the stalker HUDS from overriding your settings (and the people who have these are really the people you don't want doing this). It has to stop scripts as well.

A more elegant solution to me seems to create a bucket in inventory where items are delivered while appearing offline or busy. When the user set to online, they'd be presented with the items they'd missed as though they were just being delivered.

Darien Caldwell

This is kinda bad. My LOGOS card system has the ability for people to manage their card decks from my website. If they eject cards from their deck using the website, I check if they are online before ejecting, and block it if they aren't.

The reason is, items delivered by an object behave differently than items given by hand.
- Items given by hand are saved, even if your IMs cap.
- Items given by an object, silently vanish if your IMs cap.

If my server can't tell for sure if someone is online or not, I can't reliably send them their cards, and content loss is possible.

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Inhandra

A solution proposed on the JIRA (by Kadah I believe) is that the *SCRIPT* function that returns if a user is online or not would follow the privacy checkbox. That would take care of stalker huds as well.

Innula Zenovka

If it follows the privacy setting, then that solves most problems, as far as I can see, at the cost of some minor inconvenience to the user. What worries me is that LL will simply stop scripts returning valid information for DATA_ONLINE altogether unless it's the owner's data they're returning. I'd just would like to know for sure what's being planned.

Cerise

The online privacy setting was introduced at the end of 2006. If you have only been online a few times in the last five years, why do you give a fuck about this at all?

Inhandra

Trasee Darkwatch

Don't you know, she has all the facts. She's just trying to educate everyone else of those facts.

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Sredni Eel

This is going to be Hell on merchants who need to contact people for issues and can't because they cannot find the person in search or see if they're online.

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Sione

So basically, if objects didn't cap, this would be a non issue.

All LL needs to do is store the UUID of the object and the sender in a database until the user logs in. It should be easily doable if they care to, its a lot less data than the IM's take up.

They could even put a time limit of a few months on it. If you haven't logged in for say 6 months all inventory offers are deleted. Most MMO's do a similar thing with mailboxes. Although it's usually a much shorter period.

Kadah Coba

What I think everyone would like to see is LL add the ability to set a status (online, away, busy, DND, invisible) and for anyone to be able to see that status. Possibly even the ability to set a different status for friends.
I'm sure there is a few old Jiras on this.

I responded to you in the jira on this (and will again on this post below)

Offline lost deliveries should be resolve once the the first part of the Direct Delivery system goes live on all channels. This is put all items given to an avatar in to a new inbox system folder in their inventory, and I believe it won't matter if they are offline.

Oddly this is, I think, only the second legit usage of remote, unrestricted online status checking I've heard and it too is just for working around a known issue. Ideally the cases where you would need to know real status to avoid known issues should have those unrelated issues fixed.