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Old 02-15-2012, 03:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Otoole View Post
it will be opt in if they do it. people can choose to opt in (hide) and not receive stuff or opt out and receive stuff. i see no big deal here.

See that's what I thought too, so I wasn't sure how it would break anything.

The problem though I think is people "losing things" because their stuff is capped even when theyre on line, to which I say "um... you told the system you were logged out. Send your offlines to email. Problem solves itself, doesn't it?"
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
Speaking of those scripts, more people may be using them than realize. One of the workarounds for the llGiveInventory() throttle is to delay delivery until the recipient is online. Anything doing that will again fail miserably, and those managing big groups will again be up-in-arms.
So it waits until they are showing as online. What's the problem? Looks to me like people not showing as online would help with the throttling problem.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bronxelf View Post
Right, I understand that part.

Oh. I see. The problem is in messages being capped.

I send all my offlines to email.

I've never understood why people *dont* do that, even with a throwaway account they only use for SL. I don't get the whole "oh I cap all the time!" thing you see in profiles.

Thanks. Got it now.
Offlines to email are the sensible way to go, that way you don't miss any messages whether capped or not.
But even with offline messages going to email, messages will still be capped in-world. And as Innula pointed out, capped messages also includes capped deliveries from scripted objects.
That would definitely need to be fixed before the privacy issue can be addressed. Unfortunately that won't fix the thousands of existing items that will be broken - like for example the automatic product update systems already in use by so many merchants.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So it waits until they are showing as online. What's the problem? Looks to me like people not showing as online would help with the throttling problem.
Not that I personally care, but with this change, folks with privacy settings to never show online will never get notices from subscription systems that wait for them to show online. Assuming they subscribed intentionally, that wouldn't be the outcome they wanted.

Rather than have the subscription process explain to every subscriber that they must change their privacy settings (yeah, right), subscription systems just won't use that approach. And that's kind of unfortunate because large subscription lists include huge numbers of folks who will never be online again, so a whole bunch of backend inventory transfers are performed to no effect.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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"You are now in offline mode. Please note: some scripted objects may check your online status before sending items to you. If you are expecting a delivery you may not receive it until you are showing as online"

Wow problem solved in one line of code.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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random Question,

Would this allow LL or TPVs to add a last login to friends list so i know who is actively playing sl and those who i can take off my list so they won't be coming back and don't have to check their groups just to find out if they still exist?
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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"You are now in offline mode. Please note: some scripted objects may check your online status before sending items to you. If you are expecting a delivery you may not receive it until you are showing as online"

Wow problem solved in one line of code.
I don't think that solves it. The way the proposal in the jira is written, at least, you have the simple choice between preventing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, unless they're on your friends' list) checking to see if you're online or not and allowing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, regardless of whether they're on your friends list or not) check to see if you're online.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post
I don't think that solves it. The way the proposal in the jira is written, at least, you have the simple choice between preventing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, unless they're on your friends' list) checking to see if you're online or not and allowing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, regardless of whether they're on your friends list or not) check to see if you're online.

Im honestly not sure this wouldn't cock things up more, but since groups can see you online regardless, apparently (which is too bad.) , can items owned by those groups also see you and thereby deliver properly?

Though this doesn't at all fix the problem of subscribos, which is supposed to save group space....
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I don't see that working, because LSL can only tell if your active group is the same as that of object containing the script. It can't even tell what the group is, or not without going outside SL to do it.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I actually don't understand the underlying "problem" at all. Why would anyone even want to appear as offline while being inworld? If you want to be offline, log out; if you want to be online, log in. Easy as that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eighthdwarf Checchinato View Post
I actually don't understand the underlying "problem" at all. Why would anyone even want to appear as offline while being inworld? If you want to be offline, log out; if you want to be online, log in. Easy as that.
Not everyone is in the mood to interact with others all the time. Some of us would like to build and play dress-up in peace, on occasion. Unfortunately, some people don't understand this and can get a bit dramatic when they feel like they're being brushed off. Appearing offline makes it easier to avoid those situations.

That's just one reason, but there are probably plenty more.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Not everyone is in the mood to interact with others all the time. Some of us would like to build and play dress-up in peace, on occasion.
The "busy" state has always made this possible as well.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by eighthdwarf Checchinato View Post
I actually don't understand the underlying "problem" at all. Why would anyone even want to appear as offline while being inworld? If you want to be offline, log out; if you want to be online, log in. Easy as that.
I don't normally mind people knowing I'm online, but sometimes it would be nice to be able to get some building and scripting done uninterrupted without having to log in an alt or go to Aditi, and I don't like setting myself as "Busy" because that messes up several functions I'm often working with.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I actually don't understand the underlying "problem" at all. Why would anyone even want to appear as offline while being inworld? If you want to be offline, log out; if you want to be online, log in. Easy as that.
If there was no option to appear offline, then that would be the solution. However, since there is, would be nice if it worked as the average user or new user would assume it does. Almost every chat program I know has an appear offline option so people assume it means... appear offline.

As for why I use it? I've had various reasons. I rarely use my paid account for example, Avatar A, I only log into her about once a week to collect my stipend and clear any notices then plan to pop over to Avatar B. But sure enough, I'll get pounced the minute I log on to A. I have the option of not responding, or telling them I'm only there for a minute, or to contact me on B but I'd really rather not have to do.

I'm not "Hiding" from anyone. Almost all the people on Avatar As list are also on Avatar B where I spend more of my time these days, they just rarely contact me there because they know I'm working on something or OOC if I'm on B.

However, if I log into avie A they somehow get excited and contact me. I don't know, it's quite strange really. I love them, but it's odd seperation they have towards my two accounts.

Besides sometimes I just like quite nights in SL. Sorting inventory, working on my breedables, taking photos. Sure I could set to busy, and quite honestly that's normally what I do rather then use the appear offline, but as I started out with saying ... if there is such an option I'd like to use it as intended.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post
I don't think that solves it. The way the proposal in the jira is written, at least, you have the simple choice between preventing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, unless they're on your friends' list) checking to see if you're online or not and allowing scripted objects (and Phoenix users, regardless of whether they're on your friends list or not) check to see if you're online.
I think the cat is out of the bag already on this thanks to Emerald and Phoenix. Even if the viewers didn't do it anymore people have had a taste of it and stalker HUD sales would boom.

Unfortunately something has got to give here because you can't fix the problem without affecting something else. To be honest I think rethinking scripted items that rely on the function is inevitable. It's the lesser of two evils. Sure it will upset a few people who have to change their approach to doing things but they will get over it.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by eighthdwarf Checchinato View Post
The "busy" state has always made this possible as well.
Aside from what others have already pointed out: believe it or not, to some people, "busy" translates to "busy... except for you because you're just so special!" And then when you continue to be on busy mode... well, how DARE you ignore them!

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Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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random Question,

Would this allow LL or TPVs to add a last login to friends list so i know who is actively playing sl and those who i can take off my list so they won't be coming back and don't have to check their groups just to find out if they still exist?
I guess we all use our friends list differently and I suppose for those with a long friends list, or a list that is really more like contacts or people you've met, they have no other method of knowing someone isn't around anymore?

Even so, does it matter?

If you aren't close enough to remember if you've seen someone log in or not this season, haven't chatted with them for 2, 4, 10 months... does it matter when they last logged in? If your list is every person you've ever met, might as well keep everyone, if your list is friends and people you actually chat with from time to time, or at least notice when they are online, then keep only them.

The only person who needs to know when the last time I logged in was, already knows.
ETA: I know they CAN see my last log in date quite easily now just by looking in my groups which are not hidden. My point is, I can't think of anyone who would really need to know this because if it's that important I've probably told them in some other way and they wouldn't have to rely on this to know.

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Old 02-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #43 (permalink)
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If this comes to pass it will require a big red button and accompanying dire warning in the login page. And an on-screen status indicator inworld.

TPV developers might want to work on an "Uh-oh: you are hiding your online status, but someone on your friends list is nearby" feature.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:15 PM   #44 (permalink)
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TPV developers might want to work on an "Uh-oh: you are hiding your online status, but someone on your friends list is nearby" feature.
You have always been able to hide your status from people. It was just that certain TPV's could tell them that you were from any distance just by looking at the contacts list.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Yes, but that's on a per person basis.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I think the cat is out of the bag already on this thanks to Emerald and Phoenix. Even if the viewers didn't do it anymore people have had a taste of it and stalker HUD sales would boom.

Unfortunately something has got to give here because you can't fix the problem without affecting something else. To be honest I think rethinking scripted items that rely on the function is inevitable. It's the lesser of two evils. Sure it will upset a few people who have to change their approach to doing things but they will get over it.
I see it a bit differently. To my mind, there's a big difference between someone saying, "I wonder if Innula is really online or not..her profile says she's not, but I'm sufficiently interested to know for sure that I'll check with my hud or write a short script" and all users of a particular viewer knowing if anyone whose profile they open is online or not, simply because they've set their viewer to show them.

The former is considerably less of nuisance than the latter, to my mind, simply because of the scale of the problem.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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That would be the minor end of the scale. The other end is crazy people who NEEEEEEEED to know.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #48 (permalink)
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ETA: I know they CAN see my last log in date quite easily now just by looking in my groups which are not hidden. My point is, I can't think of anyone who would really need to know this because if it's that important I've probably told them in some other way and they wouldn't have to rely on this to know.
Actually there have been some groups I did not join (or left immediately after joining) despite being interested in them because the majority of visible group members hadn't been online for ages.
Same with some yahoo groups I stumble upon: when the last activity there has been like, Mid-2011 or earlier, I'm out as quickly as I joined it.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:34 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Actually there have been some groups I did not join (or left immediately after joining) despite being interested in them because the majority of visible group members hadn't been online for ages.
Same with some yahoo groups I stumble upon: when the last activity there has been like, Mid-2011 or earlier, I'm out as quickly as I joined it.

I don't doubt that it serves a purpose for some people Eighth, but my comment was in response to adding this functionality to the friends list.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:34 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Same with some yahoo groups I stumble upon: when the last activity there has been like, Mid-2011 or earlier, I'm out as quickly as I joined it.
Probably because Yahoo is so 2005. They are all on Twitter and Facebook now. Maybe even on SL web profile feeds
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