[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Marie Reynaud

Does anyone think that writing to any of the Linden Lab board of directors might help? I'm thinking of Jed Smith of Catamount Ventures or Bill Gurley of Benchmark Capital in particular but anyone not directly out of the lab might do. Would they be concerned that Linden Lab might be seen as a company that lets its platform be used to victimize its customers as it turns a blind eye to its own involvement in enabling potentially illegal stalker behavior?

Some business people don't like to have their enterprises connected, in even an offhand manner, with ethical embarrassments such as Linden Lab's behavior in this matter.

I'm trying to compose a letter but I'm not sure what to say. I wrote to Rodvik earlier trying to address the potential danger, in a business sense, of not taking action. I haven't heard back (and I don't expect to). But I wonder if some of the people who Rod reports to might want to know what sort of damage, public relations wise if not legal, that Linden Lab faces if stories of real life stalking, defamation, harassment and data scraping come to light before a larger public.

Remind them of what happened to facebook when they were found to be doing unsavory things with people's private info.

[Astolat Dufaux]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

It'd really be nice if people stopped going to JLU events to poke the JLU. If what Tux is saying is true, then they can simply frame you and say "SEE? HE'S A GRIEFER" and discredit any arguments. Just stay the fuck away from them.

See, that would be my strategy -- and pretty much is, even though I'm not a serial prankster (I'm trying out this word as an alternative to "griefer").

The vindictiveness of these "superheroes" makes me want to avoid any contact with the JLU, because I'm really becoming concerned that the things I've said about them are being taken out of context and put in a wiki somewhere... and from their past history with other residents, there's no reason why they wouldn't try to manufacture abuse reports on me as well.

There's no point in fighting an inworld war with them. They clearly have some "in" with the Lindens, whether that's a direct link to a LL employee who intercedes for them, or they've pulled the wool over LL's eyes and are able to get away with all this incredible BS.

Until Rodvik makes his announcement in October, it's just better to steer clear of the JLU. Aggravating them simply emboldens their resolve, and makes them dig their heels in deeper.

[Casey Pelous]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

Remind them of what happened to facebook when they were found to be doing unsavory things with people's private info.

Or remind them that Facebook makes gazillions by doing said unsavory things while LL farms it out and grosses $590 a month from the JLU/PD's sims.

Appeals to reputation will probably fall into the "that's your opinion" file. I think they're blitheringly unconscious of their reputation, anyway. A friend of mine tried to sell SL use and got pretty much laughed out of several pitches to medium sized companies. They could have really benefited from using VR, but a quick Google brought up the ancient password theft incident, and that was all those companies needed to know about SL and security.

Unfair, yes, but .... the internet never forgets.

So my advice is tie it to money or new user retention, and tie it very directly to large numbers, or save your breath.

[Bunjie]

As Ms unnamed *you know who wink wink* Had marked me out as a big bad monster and was probably filling ar's against me for every shadow behind her trees, with absolutely no proof I've done anything.

I thought what the hell and filed in a support case asking about the status of my account with linden lab before anything happened to it, kind of like head the issue off at the pass so that I was perhaps not shouting on deaf ears later, or at least have something preventive if LL enforcement see I have "an open case" on an unbanned or none suspended account.. that explains my position on several issues.

I explained a few things about the JLU, what ar's I'd filed and on whom, the stuff about the pzone listing me as a troll to 3rd parties, and Ms unnamed's links etc. and the issue about the JLU steamhunt harassment of other residents that I was concerned they we're waiting for me to reach that particular shop owning to my style of clothing.

This is what I got back.

Hello Roger,


I'm sorry, Linden Lab does not involve itself or mediate in Resident to Resident agreements or disputes. If you feel that you have suffered real world harm as a result of a broken agreement, we strongly suggest that you pursue real world redress.



Linden Lab will fully cooperate with request from a court of law.
If you feel that the other party has violated the Terms of Service or Community Standards, please file an Abuse Report (Help > Report Abuse inworld) and let our Governance Team know about the incident.


Regards,


XXXX Linden

To be honest I don't think they understand or that's a typical copy paste reply, but I think I'll keep pounding it until someone "gets it" or at least it's stored on their servers as a record of testimony from my point of view.

And might help later for me to refer to in any other correspondence or trouble with Linden Lab.

[Aribeth Zelin]

Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways

(^_^)

I still need my cutie mark, haven't decided what it would be....

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

What happened? Did they close the group or something?

They got attacked by the JLU for being gleefurs.
I'm glad they are still around, maybe I'll rejoin the group, need to clean out some old and unactive ones anyways. Need to join the Gleefur group too.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Astolat Dufaux

See, that would be my strategy -- and pretty much is, even though I'm not a serial prankster (I'm trying out this word as an alternative to "griefer").

The vindictiveness of these "superheroes" makes me want to avoid any contact with the JLU, because I'm really becoming concerned that the things I've said about them are being taken out of context and put in a wiki somewhere... and from their past history with other residents, there's no reason why they wouldn't try to manufacture abuse reports on me as well.

There's no point in fighting an inworld war with them. They clearly have some "in" with the Lindens, whether that's a direct link to a LL employee who intercedes for them, or they've pulled the wool over LL's eyes and are able to get away with all this incredible BS.

Until Rodvik makes his announcement in October, it's just better to steer clear of the JLU. Aggravating them simply emboldens their resolve, and makes them dig their heels in deeper.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rod announces the JLU as the next G-Team and makes them all Lindens.

Time for today's leak.

Meeting of Mar 06, 2011 evening - BizarroWiki

[Robble Rubble]

Originally Posted by Astolat Dufaux

See, that would be my strategy -- and pretty much is, even though I'm not a serial prankster (I'm trying out this word as an alternative to "griefer").

The vindictiveness of these "superheroes" makes me want to avoid any contact with the JLU, because I'm really becoming concerned that the things I've said about them are being taken out of context and put in a wiki somewhere... and from their past history with other residents, there's no reason why they wouldn't try to manufacture abuse reports on me as well.

There's no point in fighting an inworld war with them. They clearly have some "in" with the Lindens, whether that's a direct link to a LL employee who intercedes for them, or they've pulled the wool over LL's eyes and are able to get away with all this incredible BS.

Until Rodvik makes his announcement in October, it's just better to steer clear of the JLU. Aggravating them simply emboldens their resolve, and makes them dig their heels in deeper.

A majority of times when I ran into JLU members are when they are on alts either raiding or spying on places I have officer power or estate powers or I hang out in. They really hold a grudge. It would be really really easy to avoid them if they didn't constantly seek us out.

[Fred Rookstown]

[18:33:00] Jetta Bentham I've met the guy in real life. He used to actually be fairly nice, and I know A LOT of rather unfavorable things about him.

Nope, not blackmailing anyone. Seriously, guys.

[Victor1st]

From freds latest leak...

[18:22:00] ZenMondo Wormser *sigh* well speaking of RFL I just saw they are using my software this year. I do have grounds to DMCA the fundraising objects

THATS where I remember his name from. I kept thinking about Zen and wondering where i remembered his name from (i'm REALLY bad with names...REALLY bad). Now i remember.

It was in the RFL 2011 Design group, the group all RFL Captains and builders are invited into for building your RFL campsite. I was captain of the dr who team. I think it was early (really early) one Saturday morning, Zen boy here started wailing on the RFL 2011 committee members in group chat, in public, about how he was going to DMCA the entire RFL committee, contact LL about them "stealing" his scripts...

I wondered why zenmondos name was familliar.

Yeah...the JLU, willing to "help" RFL on one hand, yet willing to shut down the entire operation on the other. I'm guessing that the RFL 2011 committee managed to work something out with Zen...that was of course after folks in the 2011 group got a taste of what "JLU Help" was all about.

[Bunjie]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I wouldn't be surprised if Rod announces the JLU as the next G-Team and makes them all Lindens.

Time for today's leak.

Meeting of Mar 06, 2011 evening - BizarroWiki

Thanks Fred,

Now I know GLE doesn't get sarcasm or jokes, it was likely a sarcastic joke tweet that I was calling him an oxymoron like I often call myself for a laugh and to keep the old ego down, but I guess he took it serious and joined the group.

Part of the whole GTFO Second Life outreach thing...

One less mystery solved...

[JB Hancroft]

Originally Posted by Victor1st

From freds latest leak...

[18:22:00] ZenMondo Wormser *sigh* well speaking of RFL I just saw they are using my software this year. I do have grounds to DMCA the fundraising objects

THATS where I remember his name from. I kept thinking about Zen and wondering where i remembered his name from (i'm REALLY bad with names...REALLY bad). Now i remember.

It was in the RFL 2011 Design group, the group all RFL Captains and builders are invited into for building your RFL campsite. I was captain of the dr who team. I think it was early (really early) one Saturday morning, Zen boy here started wailing on the RFL 2011 committee members in group chat, in public, about how he was going to DMCA the entire RFL committee, contact LL about them "stealing" his scripts...

I wondered why zenmondos name was familliar.

Yeah...the JLU, willing to "help" RFL on one hand, yet willing to shut down the entire operation on the other. I'm guessing that the RFL 2011 committee managed to work something out with Zen...that was of course after folks in the 2011 group got a taste of what "JLU Help" was all about.

In all fairness to Zen, his issues with RFL were his own, and not related to his being in the JLU. To my knowledge, one didn't affect the other... either way.

[Victor1st]

Originally Posted by JB Hancroft

In all fairness to Zen, his issues with RFL were his own, and not related to his being in the JLU. To my knowledge, one didn't affect the other... either way.

He's one of the higher ups in the organization like GLE. Myself as one of the higher ups of the oldest dr who sim in SL, and the owner of the largest dr who group in SL...if i was going to make a blog post blasting into another group, or a statement which would not only affect my group but the sim i co-own I need to make damn sure that the dr who sim or the group isn't tied or affiliated in any way to the person or other entities im wailing on.

Otherwise it looks really stupid if on one hand one of the owners of the dr who sim has made an agreement to help and otherwise assist one sim...and then i'm off on my own kicking the shit out of them and threatening to DMCA them. It makes me look daft but more importantly it makes the entire Dr Who fanbase in SL look like a bunch of utter fruitcakes.

[Potosi]

[17:55:00]Kalel VenkmanMany people are generally fine people unless they're put in charge of something.

Yeah I find this one of the most ironic lines out of the meetings evah!

[Tracer Graves]

Not very significant, but this line seems familiar when they're talking about the ex-JLU'ers:

[18:05:00] GreenLantern Excelsior Tell her GLE said Hello ?

[WADE1 Jya]

Originally Posted by Tux

Actually, I have to disagree. Most of the people I know who are banned, have been banned because or AR parties on suspected alts or affiliated with known griefers. Had these people not been banned they would still be creating.

......

Those labelled as griefers just want to create in peace.

Yes although I do not know a lot about some of these groups, I strongly get the impression that JLU is harassing (& engaged in longterm sustained harassment of) innocent parties, and potentially innocent parties. They do seem to have very little proof as to who is "greifer" or not, but just carry on with hero games regardless. The whole thing of tracking people through facebook to verify deaths, contacting family members to surreptitiously gain information, that is just too icky and wrong... regardless of guilt of the accused!

When I say greifer I'm talking about the actual greifers (doesn't apply to everyone JLU harasses). I think the way JLU tries to engage the community just excites & encourages greifer-like behavior. Takes two sides to play such a game.

Clearly anyway, they've overstepped bounds and it needs to stop.

[Bunzie]

Originally Posted by Bunjie

As Ms unnamed *you know who wink wink* Had marked me out as a big bad monster and was probably filling ar's against me for every shadow behind her trees, with absolutely no proof I've done anything.

I thought what the hell and filed in a support case asking about the status of my account with linden lab before anything happened to it, kind of like head the issue off at the pass so that I was perhaps not shouting on deaf ears later, or at least have something preventive if LL enforcement see I have "an open case" on an unbanned or none suspended account.. that explains my position on several issues.

I explained a few things about the JLU, what ar's I'd filed and on whom, the stuff about the pzone listing me as a troll to 3rd parties, and Ms unnamed's links etc. and the issue about the JLU steamhunt harassment of other residents that I was concerned they we're waiting for me to reach that particular shop owning to my style of clothing.

This is what I got back.



To be honest I don't think they understand or that's a typical copy paste reply, but I think I'll keep pounding it until someone "gets it" or at least it's stored on their servers as a record of testimony from my point of view.

And might help later for me to refer to in any other correspondence or trouble with Linden Lab.

That's complete and utter bullshit

[Anguissette]

[17:45:00]Vagabond Carternot the point I'd say really this gives us a chance to do part of what we've been aiming for, Get em new.. before the griefers inductthem[17:45:00]Kalel VenkmanI was thinking more like a whole display of freebie giveaways.[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanYes, yes, exactly.[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanThis will be a lot of people's first contact with the League.[17:46:00]Elaine Fairportwe could use something better than what has been set up. in the newbie land, predators await[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanUp till now it's been either running afoul of us in the sandboxes, or whatever they read on the Herald.[17:47:00]Vagabond Carter((pardona few, afk ))[17:47:00]MartianManhunter Resident((Did it stop?))[17:48:00]ZenMondo WormserI;d be willing to donate whatever open source scripts I have to the cause.[17:48:00]Kalel VenkmanSo absolutely, we'll be giving away Krypton Radios so people can play it on their own land, freebies ((yes, it did)) for new arrivals, Phantom Zone signups, and self help guides.



I felt a chill going up my spine when I read that. Several chills.

Firstly, it sounds like the JLU are buying up land next to the Ivory Tower so they can try to get to the noobs before they can be 'inducted by griefers' or learn about the JLU from other means such as by reading or seeing the JLU in action with their own eyes. (Inducted by griefers, btw? What, are there griefer recruitment centres being set up in SL now? L...O....L!) And it also sounds like the JLU are going to try to win over the hearts and minds of noobs with pretty shiny gifts and free Phantom Zones.

My mind suddenly fills with an image of a sleazy old guy dressed up as a superhero standing at a school gate saying, "Hey, kid, step into my van with me, I've got candy and puppies for you! Hehehe!" That, and a memory of the time a couple of scientologists tried to recruit me one time when I was a drunken teen. They had their most attactive members working the street in a reknowned party zone in the city on a Friday night, saying, "Come back to our centre. We've got free things for you. Food, drink, cigarettes. We just want to help you. Take our test and you'll learn cool stuff about yourself that will make you happier." Hey, I was young and dumb and drunk, but not young and dumb and drunk enough to fall for a very obvious schmooze job like that.

The other thing that really bugs me is that they will be giving away Phantom Zone nodes there to any noob who wants them. They will be talking noobs who don't know better into installing those damn griefer tools all over SL and increasing the illegitimate and unethical power of the JLU exponentially.

Sigh...

Though I did get a laugh from an earlier comment from the same page I quoted above, where Kalel is bragging that he can afford the $25 a month rent on the land. I mean, way to go, big man! A WHOLE twenty five bucks a month. You're freaking loaded. In a third world sort of way.

[Bunzie]

Originally Posted by Anguissette

[17:45:00]Vagabond Carternot the point I'd say really this gives us a chance to do part of what we've been aiming for, Get em new.. before the griefers inductthem[17:45:00]Kalel VenkmanI was thinking more like a whole display of freebie giveaways.[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanYes, yes, exactly.[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanThis will be a lot of people's first contact with the League.[17:46:00]Elaine Fairportwe could use something better than what has been set up. in the newbie land, predators await[17:46:00]Kalel VenkmanUp till now it's been either running afoul of us in the sandboxes, or whatever they read on the Herald.[17:47:00]Vagabond Carter((pardona few, afk ))[17:47:00]MartianManhunter Resident((Did it stop?))[17:48:00]ZenMondo WormserI;d be willing to donate whatever open source scripts I have to the cause.[17:48:00]Kalel VenkmanSo absolutely, we'll be giving away Krypton Radios so people can play it on their own land, freebies ((yes, it did)) for new arrivals, Phantom Zone signups, and self help guides.



I felt a chill going up my spine when I read that. Several chills.

Firstly, it sounds like the JLU are buying up land next to the Ivory Tower so they can try to get to the noobs before they can be 'inducted by griefers' or learn about the JLU from other means such as by reading or seeing the JLU in action with their own eyes. (Inducted by griefers, btw? What, are there griefer recruitment centres being set up in SL now? L...O....L!) And it also sounds like the JLU are going to try to win over the hearts and minds of noobs with pretty shiny gifts and free Phantom Zones.

My mind suddenly fills with an image of a sleazy old guy dressed up as a superhero standing at a school gate saying, "Hey, kid, step into my van with me, I've got candy and puppies for you! Hehehe!" That, and a memory of the time a couple of scientologists tried to recruit me one time when I was a drunken teen. They had their most attactive members working the street in a reknowned party zone in the city on a Friday night, saying, "Come back to our centre. We've got free things for you. Food, drink, cigarettes. We just want to help you. Take our test and you'll learn cool stuff about yourself that will make you happier." Hey, I was young and dumb and drunk, but not young and dumb and drunk enough to fall for a very obvious schmooze job like that.

The other thing that really bugs me is that they will be giving away Phantom Zone nodes there to any noob who wants them. They will be talking noobs who don't know better into installing those damn griefer tools all over SL and increasing the illegitimate and unethical power of the JLU exponentially.

Sigh...

Though I did get a laugh from an earlier comment from the same page I quoted above, where Kalel is bragging that he can afford the $25 a month rent on the land. I mean, way to go, big man! A WHOLE twenty five bucks a month. You're freaking loaded. In a third world sort of way.

Sign-ups for spyware, hit the noobies or anyone who doesn't know what's going on. It's a low-tatic but Red-Zone tried a similar approach, expect it affected anyone within range (newbie or not) that was wearing the mess and it spreaded to others. Thus effectively spreading control, as you've stated.

It's like a hustler, even if it wears a "friendly smile" and "pressed slacks"

With all this talk of "Orders from LL" and "The league" and holding oaths/secrets it's sounding more and more like a "recruiting" cult than anything else.

[Anguissette]

[18:22:00]ZenMondo Wormser*sigh* well speaking of RFL I just saw they are using my software this year. I do have grounds to DMCA the fundraising objects

[18:24:00]Vagabond Carterthat's typical of non prophit groups once given a resource they treat it as granted, for ever


OMG, am I right in understanding that these JLU guys are bitching that a charity group (Relay For Life) wants to reuse something they were given that was supposed to help in their fundraising efforts! Time to call in Scotland Yard, how dare a non profit organisation take gifts as charity and use them to try to benefit needy, sick or otherwise disadvantaged people. No, call Interpol and the FBI, this kind of thing just shouldn't be allowed to happen. I hope your DMCA works, Zen, charities should be forced to pay heavily for your pain and suffering.

Damn, I just burnt out my sarcasm gland from overuse.

[Astolat Dufaux]

Originally Posted by Anguissette

[18:22:00]ZenMondo Wormser*sigh* well speaking of RFL I just saw they are using my software this year. I do have grounds to DMCA the fundraising objects

[18:24:00]Vagabond Carterthat's typical of non prophit groups once given a resource they treat it as granted, for ever

This is just getting ridiculous. What pettiness.

[Anguissette]

Originally Posted by Potosi

[17:55:00]Kalel VenkmanMany people are generally fine people unless they're put in charge of something.

Yeah I find this one of the most ironic lines out of the meetings evah!

I agree. Here's another one too:


[18:30:00]Melanippe KarasHm. He likes to listen to himself talk.

[Anguissette]

[18:30:00]Kalel VenkmanNeedless to say, we don't have any spying prims in their regions. That's based on the incorrect assumption that our command center needs to have them there in order to scan their sims.


Eek. Statements like that cause me to have a quandary: what to do first, hurl, throw something, or go shower to try to get rid of that icky dirty feeling?

[Innula Zenovka]

Originally Posted by Anguissette

OMG, am I right in understanding that these JLU guys are bitching that a charity group (Relay For Life) wants to reuse something they were given that was supposed to help in their fundraising efforts!

Since many landowners may, in the light of recent events, be rather less willing to allow scripted objects made by JLU members on their property than has previously been the case, perhaps a satisfactory outcome for all concerned would be if someone were to offer RFL some alternative to Zen's gadgets. I'll happily have a shot at making something for them if someone can tell me what they're supposed to do and if no one else wants to, and of course I'd give the items to the organisers full perms -- I don't ever make non-mod scripts that handle money for people because I don't ask people to trust me to that extent.

This particular leak has gone some way to reassuring me that the JLU aren't, in fact, up to some sort of shenanigans using the items to spy on people at RFL venues -- they'd doubtless have been gloating about it, were that the case -- but everyone, including Zen, it seems, might be more comfortable if RLF were able to reassure people that they are no longer using scripted items made by him.

Time to call in Scotland Yard, how dare a non profit organisation take gifts as charity and use them to try to benefit needy, sick or otherwise disadvantaged people. No, call Interpol and the FBI, this kind of thing just shouldn't be allowed to happen. I hope your DMCA works, Zen, charities should be forced to pay heavily for your pain and suffering.

Damn, I just burnt out my sarcasm gland from overuse.

I have, I think, found a picture of Scotland Yard's JLU liaison officer.

[Anguissette]

And here's another contender for the most ironic lines list:

[18:34:00]Kalel VenkmanHe seems to be one of these people who is blessed with an ability to function in complete disregard for factual information

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka

Since many landowners may, in the light of recent events, be rather less willing to allow scripted objects made by JLU members on their property than has previously been the case, perhaps a satisfactory outcome for all concerned would be if someone were to offer RFL some alternative to Zen's gadgets. I'll happily have a shot at making something for them if someone can tell me what they're supposed to do and if no one else wants to, and of course I'd give the items to the organisers full perms -- I don't ever make non-mod scripts that handle money for people because I don't ask people to trust me to that extent.

This particular leak has gone some way to reassuring me that the JLU aren't, in fact, up to some sort of shenanigans using the items to spy on people at RFL venues -- they'd doubtless have been gloating about it, were that the case -- but everyone, including Zen, it seems, might be more comfortable if RLF were able to reassure people that they are no longer using scripted items made by him.

I'd be happy to make them such a system, I've done charity work previously. Although I'd have to work around the being-banned thing.

I have, I think, found a picture of Scotland Yard's JLU liaison officer.

I have found my halloween outfit. Now to buy a green antique British police uniform.