[Cummere Mayo]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

Is there an email address? I can't send databases over snailmail or phone.

Fred, I do not have one for them.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

Fred, I do not have one for them.

Try researching the county office. see if they have a web page. Take the info off of the 'contact us" and see where that goes

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Vergil Hellershanks

who brought the griefer gun into this build area. and why is it spawning drama bombs! D:<

because people have the attention span of a gnat and are more interested in the latest gossip/showing off what they know, rather than trying to find a solution to the problem of the JLU and its behaviour inworld.

[Cathiee McMillan]

Sighs~
Obviously Cummere and Ariadne have two different philosophys on the situation does it make them both wrong or both completely right. No
Each US state has its own laws just as each country has its own.
Each police station follows its own set of rules.

I really think the 2 cat fighting over the same thing is just silly. Your arguing over internal policy's in 2 different countries and hell states!


You both are right from your perspectives.
I thank you both for giving us more information.

[Kara Spengler]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I can't send databases over snailmail or phone.

You mean the person there who answers the phone would not like to hear a modem attempting to connect?

[Vergil Hellershanks]

City of Simi Valley : Resources

call one of those numbers and ask if there is a correlating Email you can send your shit to fred.


EDIT:

OR http://www.simivalley.org/index.aspx?page=31 find someone on there that can help you and call them.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Vergil Hellershanks

Watch me do a little tapdance around the issue and say TADAAAAAAAA while we wait for fred to leak us some more meeting logs.

I will. I'm just waking up after having a fucking blinding migraine all day yesterday.

In order to send this information to the cops, I need to have a reference case number so I know there's a case open and so the cops can assign it to the case, an email address (since this isn't the original evidence, it'll be filed as "shit we use to get a warrant", although I'm going to follow chain of custody procedures anyway to the best of my ability over the current medium. Since this will involve me giving a remote police department my contact information and a lot of other people's personal information, I NEED TO KNOW THE FUCKING CASE NUMBER SO I KNOW THIS ISN'T BULLSHIT.

I can't call up Simi Valley and say "Hey, what's the case number for the cyberstalking incident that Kalel Vankman reportedly did?" I don't know his real name, and the cops are only going to file this under his real name.

So if you're afraid of revealing that shit to the public, Cummere, tell me and I'll vet cases and redirect them to the police department in question - IF this isn't a big fucking lie.

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

Is there an email address? I can't send databases over snailmail or phone.

Simi Valley Police Department
Police Chief: Mike Lewis
3901 Alamo Street
Simi Valley, CA 93063
(805) 583-6950
policedept@simivalley.org

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

16 is not a kid in the US? And how many cases have you reported or heard about to state this with such confidence? Surely it's a better bet than putting that mail out HERE, no?

Argh, gone. Had enough of you and your attempts at one-upmanship.

People, believe what you like. I have had more than enough of Ms Drama here.

Actually, 30 states legally set the age of consent to 16. 8 states are 17 and the remaining 12 are 18. So, technically, 16 can be an "adult" for half the country. (^_^)

I live in an "18" state. (^_^)y

[Cummere Mayo]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

16 is not a kid in the US? And how many cases have you reported or heard about to state this with such confidence? Surely it's a better bet than putting that mail out HERE, no?

Maybe if you read my past posts you would know this. how many have I reported up to them that my department took the complaints for? about 30. How many cyberstalking cases has the cyber crimes unit at my department handled? well over 100. How many of those have I personally been involved in? Depends on what you mean by involved since the cyber crimes unit and traffic investigations units both report to me.

And to clarify something: a 16 year old that is emancipated from her parents under law is considered an adult in most states in the US.

@ fred

case number I was given and shared on the previous thread is case number 10-15406. As I stated before the case number was given to me by the watch captain not the investigating officer. Investigating officer of that case I was told was sgt dungan.

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I can't call up Simi Valley and say "Hey, what's the case number for the cyberstalking incident that Kalel Vankman reportedly did?" I don't know his real name, and the cops are only going to file this under his real name.

it only took me around 10 minutes to find his name and address via a google search on kalel venkman. which shows you how easy it is to track people down if you've made the slightest slip of mapping your real life to your sl life, no matter how tenuously.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

it only took me around 10 minutes to find his name and address via a google search on kalel venkman. which shows you how easy it is to track people down if you've made the slightest slip of mapping your real life to your sl life, no matter how tenuously.

Well... he's made quite a few "enemies" on SL. who have repeatedly leaked his info to Encyclopedia dramatica AND other sources.

Try looking up someone less well known. or research your own family and see how far the internet takes you. THAT will put it into perspective.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

And to clarify something: a 16 year old that is emancipated from her parents under law is considered an adult in most states in the US.

Yeah, I didn't learn that until I was 19... The things I would have done differently... (>_<)

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

it only took me around 10 minutes to find his name and address via a google search on kalel venkman. which shows you how easy it is to track people down if you've made the slightest slip of mapping your real life to your sl life, no matter how tenuously.

I can get what the PN thought his personal information was, but I'd rather get the casenumber in case the information we get is wrong.

[zip paz]

I do not believe this girl is real. I do not care if Cummere fabricated it or if it's a JLU mole doing it.

I do think it's pretty stupid.

I'm not giving one drop of attention to it past this point. If "she" is 16 years old "she" should have enough common sense to contact the police before CUMMERE SLU POSTER SUPER CYBERCOP.

This is stupid.

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Vergil Hellershanks

Well... he's made quite a few "enemies" on SL. who have repeatedly leaked his info to Encyclopedia dramatica AND other sources.

Try looking up someone less well known. or research your own family and see how far the internet takes you. THAT will put it into perspective.

I have and I can say that it depends on the age, the types of things they do online, the country they live in and the uniqueness of their name.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Originally Posted by zip paz

I do not believe this girl is real. I do not care if Cummere fabricated it or if it's a JLU mole doing it.

I do think it's pretty stupid.

I'm not giving one drop of attention to it past this point. If "she" is 16 years old "she" should have enough common sense to contact the police before CUMMERE SLU POSTER SUPER CYBERCOP.

This is stupid.

ive seen some pretty dumb 16 year olds in the past.... Just saying.

[zip paz]

Naw it's silly. The whole thing doesn't fit Kalel's modus operandi either. Kalel is known for contacting people in rl or bleeding a papertrail in his wiki or his krypton radio site. But he doesn't continually harass people in email or on forums.

He uses his henchmen for that.

It doesn't make any sense and that email seems vague and forced. I'm gonna to fall back on my previous post of "this is stupid."

[Evola]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I can get what the PN thought his personal information was, but I'd rather get the casenumber in case the information we get is wrong.

It's posted on the herald, in an article regarding the false dmca's filed.

[Cummere Mayo]

Originally Posted by zip paz

I do not believe this girl is real. I do not care if Cummere fabricated it or if it's a JLU mole doing it.

I do think it's pretty stupid.

I'm not giving one drop of attention to it past this point. If "she" is 16 years old "she" should have enough common sense to contact the police before CUMMERE SLU POSTER SUPER CYBERCOP.

This is stupid.

3 points:
1) she claims she did contact her local cops.
2) I wasnt the one she contacted. the person she contacted passed it on to me. I talked to her, urged her to contact her local department again and if that didn't work to try simi valley.
3) I am skeptical of the authenticity. I posted it because she asked me to, and because if its true we should be able to find something in the wiki or at some point someone in the jlu will brag on it.
if its not true, we need to be able to know about it so we can avoid the trap.

[Angela Talamasca]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I'd rather get the casenumber

Here you go (emphasis, mine)

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

I did find out that the Simi Valley police have a case on this issue dating back to 2010. Case number 10-15406. That case was closed because they didn't find anything at the time, however, the watch commander flat out issued an invitation for any victims that might have enough evidence of wrongdoing to contact the detective that was in charge of that case for getting it reopened. I have the name and rank of the detective assigned that case as well as a contact number and am willing to share them with people here who have been direct victims of the JLU.

[DeNovo Broome]

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

Exactly, there is also the little matter that in cases like Sony's there is often a class action suit. Then again, on that chat Zen (or was it another JLU peep?) has compared them to a congregation with a pedophile priest too ... I do not think Zen puts a lot of thought into speaking.

Nope. Too much thought put into not thinking. And don't take that as an facile one-liner. No. JLU gives every indication to be concerned that it is an expansive, ambitious cult, seeking power, influence and control, and one of the clues is the apparent inability to see clear dissonances between evident beliefs and actual behavior. That, and being humorless twits in general. A sense of humor requires a sense of proportion - and clearly, that went out the air-lock some long time ago.

I'm not suggesting that JLU is in the same league as the Moonies, or other notorious cults. I'm merely observing that the dynamics are similar, and that it's notoriously difficult to deal with "true believers." The mental aspects - which for the sake of brevity, we may as well call "brainwashing" - are well understood, and unless they have some sort of personally traumatic collision between personal psychological safety and that programming, you really should not expect defections at this point.

From the viewpoint of establishing and maintaining a cult, an "us-versus-them" dynamic is ideal, and now they are a persecuted minority, driven into hiding and clandestine operations by the godless liberal hourdes who will AR you for expecting a proper "Merry Christmas" from the owner of the Kosher Deli.

Oh, am I crossing the streams? Why, so I am. Sometimes it's worth pointing out that wherever you go, there you are.

As far as this particular group goes, well, I'd have to say that we are lucky in one respect - successful cults (in the sense of gaining widespread power and influence) are led by sociopathic cynics who have even less regard for insiders than outsiders. I expect this one is more likely to "black hole" itself, and become completely isolated within SL, because it seems to be more about KalEl and Kara and less about actually achieving any significant goal, save as a means to the end of making KalEl and Kara seem more and more important to KalEl and Kara.

However, we can fairly much presume there are many such groups, with various agendas, to many different ends; the most obvious being power and profit, or the appearance of such.

It is in that light that the sudden absence of "Batman" concerns me - I suspect he's already building a new cult, and is either leading it, or has been grooming a new, charismatic figurehead.

However, let us rememeber another thing; to the extent that SL is intended to simulate human society, it needs to be explicitly observed that you can hardly do that without letting humans do as humans do, and closely following the interactions. Particularly... erm... the "emergent behaviors."

And whether or not it's explicitly stated, whether or not it's obvious to the casual observer, whether or not there are specific contracts and investments based on this (obvious) potential, you can be quite sure that there are many groups using SL (and other grids) as sandboxes for studying human group behavior - with many different goals in mind and theories of human behavior being put into practice.

And - let me be even more cynical than usual - if I had wanted to illustrate and study the in group dynamics of authoritarian and anti-authoritarian groups, with, say, hopes of modeling how societies based on leftist versus rightist groups would play out over time - well, goodness, the whole JLU/Woodbury war is a gold mine. It's certainly more data rich than the Milgram Experiment, and it's arguably more "pure."

Further, the TOS covers any and all human subjects disclosure issues that would arise. If you are wondering about the seeming reluctance to shut down the JLU wiki, or the seeming favortism, or the odd instances where Lindens have Brainiac access... no, I'll just sit back and let you sum that up for yourself.

Need I point out that authoritarian groups always kiss up and kick down? Always seek out approval and justification from higher authority - and failing that, fake it. I would never assume that encouraging them was in fact approval of what they do... well, other than "good rat, you have learned to find that cheese every single time."

Nor would it surprise me to find out that "Batman" and "Pixleen" (or some other pairing that would equally stun the community - were in fact grant based collaborators in a long-term social experiement funded by, oh, let's take a wild stab in the dark - DARPA, The Rand Corporation, or even Google.

Nor would I actually fundamentally disapprove. Worse things have been done for less substantive reasons, at the very least, and I have to point out that, in my cynical view, fun has been had by all, for a long time, with minimal impact on anyone who wanted to play other games. Much as in real life, the political people fairly much play in THAT sandbox, and everyone else rolls their eyes and does their own thing, having learned that the outcomes are largely cosmetic. Well, so long as they actually play by the rules.

It's when people start cheating as a standard tactic that you see problems - "taking it off the grid" may be fairly compared to vote-rigging, voter suppression and other such tactics in "RL."

Now, if you were wishing to study that mindset, would it not be facinating to read these lovingly compiled chat-logs and justifications for tactics?

Need I even mention the US DOD's current fascination with social MMO's?

And to the extent that there IS a distinction, I hear tell that Blackwater is releasing their own branded Multiplayer shooter. I know you are tempted. You want to go in there and eat their k-rats. And at this point, it's likely that many of you could.

It's such an obvious honey-trap I almost feel like it's an insult to point it out.

They want cheap operational experience and even cheaper recruiting. They are also trying to "crowdsource" their enemies. So leave that to their actual opposite numbers; may a thousand camels piss in their shared couscous.

Meanwhile, I observe for myself, as others have, how very strange it is that the JLU computer is named "Brainiac." I've always found such clues to be informative of core motivations, which may be utterly unconscious, or, more likely, "a Subtle In-Joke for those who Really Understand."

Personally, that's the degree of "subtle" I have come to expect from the JLU, right up there with the Saudi Morality Police.

I do however observe that should this have been an experiment in social engineering, it has rather obviously failed the "smoke test."

[Lyndka]

*gets out a super bright battery lantern and peers in to the murk*

"Hey - did anyone see the original thread around here? I think I lost my way and wandered in to another"

Seriously... focus... we're just handing JLU the high ground in this meandering.

If you want to question each other about who know's what and how and what you've done or not done then please - start another topic and do it there - it's like Prok is here trolling again

[DeNovo Broome]

Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways

Yeah, I didn't learn that until I was 19... The things I would have done differently... (>_<)

"Hugs if acceptable"

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Originally Posted by Lyndka

*gets out a super bright battery lantern and peers in to the murk*

"Hey - did anyone see the original thread around here? I think I lost my way and wandered in to another"

Seriously... focus... we're just handing JLU the high ground in this meandering.

If you want to question each other about who know's what and how and what you've done or not done then please - start another topic and do it there - it's like Prok is here trolling again

I'm a Californian. I don't surf but I gotta find some kind of wave to ride. =^-^=