[Anguissette]

Sorry it's been so long since I left a comment here, peeps, but I have been very busy working as a mole over at the Justice Lea...I mean, I have been busy washing my hair. Yes, washing my hair. Really.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Originally Posted by Ann Launay

I'm just going to leave this here.

The Alot is Better Than You at Everything

Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you Thank you thank you thank you thank you

*bangs head against desk crying* FUCKING HATE WHEN PEOPLE SAY ALOT. it's A LOT *cries and smashes head some more*

[Cathiee McMillan]

@Ariadne

I am curious since in the US alot of the cyberstalking laws and cyberbullying laws are still in its infancy what do you know about them?
Dateline had a whole segment on Cyber Bullying and how it gets done and dealt with. That it is a very gray area of the law right now and the laws around it are not fully detailed.

I also know alot of police and they do have alot of opinions, they do not need to be bias. They all are human and have their own faults like all of us. Even on duty.

[Elysium Hynes]

Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan

@Ariadne

I am curious since in the US alot of the cyberstalking laws and cyberbullying laws are still in its infancy what do you know about them?
Dateline had a whole segment on Cyber Bullying and how it gets done and dealt with. That it is a very gray area of the law right now and the laws around it are not fully detailed.

I also know alot of police and they do have alot of opinions, they do not need to be bias. They all are human and have their own faults like all of us. Even on duty.

Trust me she knows about this stuff.

[Cathiee McMillan]

Trust me she knows about this stuff.

Ok I will accept that, Then why isn't she doing more since the JLU have obviously been cyber stalking and cyber bulling people.
I would think their is enough evidence of these cyber acts to warrant action.

[zip paz]

I do not believe the validity of that person's email. Not saying Cummere made it up but it could very well be someone siding with the JLU or even the JLU trying to feed disinformation so we accuse them of something heinous and it turns out we were wrong (and not only wrong but so wrong it makes us look disgusting and lose credibility).

I just don't believe it. That person should have leaked screenshots or gave more details about what Kalel said beyond 'everyday he contacted me.'

It seems entirely too convenient.

[Cummere Mayo]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

Put it this way: you may think I'm an idiot and know nothing about police procedure, but you are wrong on SO many counts here it's actually funny. Yes, I know plenty about procedures for cybercrime but it is up to people whether they believe me or not.

I'm calling you on your bullshit right there.
you have stated so many things that are not true about police procedures. Such as we are required to memorize every single case number. Such as we can take reports of third parties about crimes not even in our jurisdictions.
That we can investigate something when the victim refuses to file charges. The ONLY exceptions to that, and even then not in every state, is for child abuse, battering, and attempted murder.

Unlike you, I don't throw a hissy fit or go all cryptic. I've said what I know and how I think things should move forward based on advice from cybercrime experts (again, believe it or not, up to readers). But, see, I am not on one side or the other in this. You are. Which is why I question your ethics.

you definitely have a side in this.

That mail *should* be passed on whether it is in your jurisdiction or not (with cross-references to the 'existing case'). It is called a 'lead' and would be interesting material for that case.

No it really shouldn't be. for one thing its allot of allegations but she didn't provide proof with it. Secondly, as a victim it would be far more credible and far more useful for her to approach a department that can and is willing to take her case than to have it passed through third parties.
Thirdly, unlike on TV, victims badgered into filing charges typically don't work out.

Did the girl in question know you are a cop when she agreed to 'go public'?

already answered this. your reading skills or lack thereof are showing.

Getting her ID from that mail? You don't know much about hackers, do you? Quite apart from what cyberinvestigations can pull up.

without either the full address, one of the ip addresses in the chain of computers and servers it went through, from that picture alone, no its not bloody likely to get it. If they hack into my account yes, its pretty easy to trace back.
Most of the relevant information for tracing an email account comes from the address itself, the information in the header including the ips of the chain it passes though, the date/time stamp, various bits and pieces embedded in the source code itself, and whatever info a person puts about themselves in the mail itself.
Turn off the headers, take a picture of the text, and black out the date, the addresses, and so forth and you make it much much harder to trace.

She may have asked you to post it, but you did not have to. There are many other things you could have done, but no - you want the drama.

Enjoy your posturing, but your bias does not do you credit.

Again youre spouting off bullshit here. You're the one causing drama by sidetracking the thread, with "facts" about procedure you're pulling out of your ass. Yes, I could choose not to. I myself stated I am skeptical of her story. I chose to share it as she wished.
my reasons for sharing are simple:
1) she wanted me to.
2) whether or not this story is true or false, I felt we needed to be aware of what is being said outside of here.
if this story is true we can look for evidence to verify it on our own. if its false we can be aware of it and act accordingly.

[Lyndka]

We're wandering once more folks...

The question at hand isn't "Who has the professional qualifications to deal with what?" but "What else can we discover that will stand inspection by LL and give them some impetus to deal with Kalel and his sickly little band".

The casual observers of this thread could be forgiven for thinking this is just an e-peen thread by and large - we've gifted the high ground to JLU and Kalel probably fno longer feels threatened because the opposition against them is vaporising with each post here - and Maverick and his little Black Op of feeding us tidbits to send us off course is working.

We need to stand together for what we originally believed (sorry if that sounds trite) which is that JLU is actively ignoring and breaking the ToS without any fear of sanction for lack of concrete proof beyond the leaked wiki and argue that point alone - nothing else or they will win.

[Anguissette]

T.R.O.L.L. =

Totally
Riled
Over
Ludicrous
Losers

If that's the definition of a troll, JLU, then get me to a bridge and dub me queen of the trolls.

[Cathiee McMillan]

I think we all are skeptical about the e-mail.
So lets leave it at that and move on.


What it is is just another piece of information to mull over with the other stuff we have been given.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Watch me do a little tapdance around the issue and say TADAAAAAAAA while we wait for fred to leak us some more meeting logs.

[Anguissette]

And now, it's time for me to leave this site and get back to being a mole...I mean, time for me to get back to standing here looking nonchalent and doing nothing in particular, least of all going through the dumpster out back of JLU headquarters looking for Kalel's old post it notes, which are icky because he keeps them wadded up in his sweaty tights, tights which have never known the soothing rinse of a washing machine or the tender touch of a human female hand.

(walks off whistling innocently and intermittently practising saying the word 'excelsior' under breath in a convincingly heroic way)

[Ceka Cianci]

Originally Posted by Vergil Hellershanks

Watch me do a little tapdance around the issue and say TADAAAAAAAA while we wait for fred to leak us some more meeting logs.

Do you think it will be Areallot of leaks or just Alot of leaks?

[Innula Zenovka]

Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan

Ok I will accept that, Then why isn't she doing more since the JLU have obviously been cyber stalking and cyber bulling people.
I would think their is enough evidence of these cyber acts to warrant action.

By the law enforcement authorities in the correct jurisdiction.

[Ariadne Korda]

Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan

Ok I will accept that, Then why isn't she doing more since the JLU have obviously been cyber stalking and cyber bulling people.
I would think their is enough evidence of these cyber acts to warrant action.

I explained that I did all I could several pages back

And also that I am not a cop, just connected to them.

You wanted details? I write analytical reports on crime and methods of fighting them, including cybercrime. Up to you whether you believe it or not but it is all I'm saying. A few people on SLU can 'vouch for me' but I could also be a very good liar. Anyone on the Internet can. You, me, Cummere, anyone.

Yes, I know plenty about cybercrime investigations and procedures, but please note that although these exist, they are not binding because national law (if it exists) has to be taken into consideration. And yes, the law is still catching up with reality because... that is how it always happens. Sad, but true. Some countries have no legislation on child sexual abuse, or maritime piracy, so that's where the criminals operate from, just as people now do most of their cybercrime activities from places where are are loopholes (if they are clever), or hide their tracks well (but not always well enough).

Since the writer of the mail stated she WANTED the police in on this, then it can only be taken at face value, i.e. she DOES want it reported and followed up. It is just a question of where and how, and helping her with that (rather than publishing it for unqualified opinions, sorry).

Yes, the lead agency is the FBI, but there is also this site cybercrime.gov on how to report it, which takes you to this specific address - the Internet Crime Complaint Centre in the US http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx. It specifically says (Cummere, please note....) that The IC3 accepts online Internet crime complaints from either the actual victim or from a third party to the complainant.

Why can't I do this? Because I live in France, to start with (although I also work elsewhere) and a lot more people with a lot more information are in the US.

But most of all, because my contacts are police to police, not citizens to police. Since I am a civilian, I can only ask (and did) what civilians can do. I know what police can do in terms of co-operation and the networks used, but first the police has to have the information from civilians.

Victims are often reluctant to come forward - as a result of any type of attack, whether rape victims, illegal immigrants, people who are stalked. Guilt, shame, fear of being identified, no trust in the police. That is why those investigating such crimes have procedures - it is a highly specialised area and the units concerned take cases up as and when escalated by other agencies.
If the police wouldn't help the girl in question, then I find it a great shame but if she is really insistent, and this is not a hoax, then there is help, which Cummere could give her via the addresses I mentioned, such as helping her to file a complaint.

Whether there is enough evidence is not, in fact, for SLU to decide. Yes, we can have gut feelings, and a lot of it seems very damning. But SLU is not the police and the only competent people to examine, verify and turn that material into SOLID evidence that will stand up in some court, somewhere, is another matter.

And that, really, is my final word on the matter.

[Haus]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

Put it this way: you may think I'm an idiot and know nothing about police procedure, but you are wrong on SO many counts here it's actually funny. Yes, I know plenty about procedures for cybercrime but it is up to people whether they believe me or not.

Unlike you, I don't throw a hissy fit or go all cryptic. I've said what I know and how I think things should move forward based on advice from cybercrime experts (again, believe it or not, up to readers). But, see, I am not on one side or the other in this. You are. Which is why I question your ethics.

That mail *should* be passed on whether it is in your jurisdiction or not (with cross-references to the 'existing case'). It is called a 'lead' and would be interesting material for that case. In the mail ITSELF she admits to wanting the police to take it up - that is pretty clear, no?

Did the girl in question know you are a cop when she agreed to 'go public'? Apparently not.

Getting her ID from that mail? You don't know much about hackers, do you? Quite apart from what cyberinvestigations can pull up.

She may have asked you to post it, but you did not have to. There are many other things you could have done, but no - you want the drama.

Enjoy your posturing, but your bias does not do you credit.

Something I feel that should not be focused upon nor a topic that should be continually repeated. The basis of taking shots at each others statements and posts can really be a huge waste of time when three or more pages that are all back and forth "he said she said". I am all for defending yourself from some people that are thicker headed then conscious beings should be, and of course the drama bringers, and the over excited finger pointers without a neck to turn their own head. These people will always be there to yell things into a corner. *cough cough*..Prok!

we have so many bright minds in here and a lot of people with a voice, and a story to share. We should all do our part to be respectable and considerate with the information posted and statements made. This is not pointed at the ones who defend themselves, but the people that choose to waste space with their own issues, gripes, and overall ignorance.If you disagree or have something that may shed more light to someone’s information that was posted. By all means fight against it or for it as much as your heart’s content. Just at least don't reply like we are sitting in a lunch room and sound like you’re a ditzy school girl. For all of us staying on topic while working together is key for things to progress properly. While of course doing so without burning any bridges with our friends and acquaintances we are working with. Simply put it is no way for a community to act in times like this.
Stay dapper my darlings

<3

[Angela Talamasca]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

I also got permission to share her story after finding out that she used a throwaway account.

So what? She's the minor. You're the adult. Moreover, if he's the stalker you claim him to be, and you even remotely believe her story, you put her at risk by posting an email that contained enough identifying info for the guy to figure out who wrote it.

[Ariadne Korda]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

I'm calling you on your bullshit right there.
you have stated so many things that are not true about police procedures. Such as we are required to memorize every single case number. Such as we can take reports of third parties about crimes not even in our jurisdictions.
That we can investigate something when the victim refuses to file charges. The ONLY exceptions to that, and even then not in every state, is for child abuse, battering, and attempted murder.

See my post above about third parties reporting cybercrimes. You could help that girl a lot more effectively than chucking that letter on here.

And quit with the lies about me saying anything about memorising case numbers. Or find the quote (which does not exist).

And last, the victim has stated in that mail that she WANTS to file charges, which seems pretty clear to me.

End of intervention for me. Carry on swaggering and attacking.

[Angela Talamasca]

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

Let me guess. Blue's office hour?

lol. no.

[Cummere Mayo]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

(Cummere, please note....) that The IC3 accepts online Internet crime complaints from either the actual victim or from a third party to the complainant.

And unless it deals with kids UNDER 13 years old or has id theft involved, cyberstalking cases reported by third parties that way, usually get told something along the lines of "please have the victim report this."

furthermore, if she goes to simi valley and they find her credible and she provides evidence, they will help her get to where she needs to. if they don't they wont. consider it a litmus test.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

First off, its obvious that you all that keep saying urge her to go to the police didn't read her email. She says she went to the police and they wont do something. I actually urged her to go back and try again.
I also gave her the number to simi county department as well.
Simi Valley police department number is (805) 583-6950. The address is 3901 Alamo Street; Simi Valley, CA 93063.

So please do not make baseless assumptions.

Is there an email address? I can't send databases over snailmail or phone.

[Ariadne Korda]

Originally Posted by Cummere Mayo

And unless it deals with kids or has id theft involved, cyberstalking cases reported by third parties that way, usually get told something along the lines of "please have the victim report this."

16 is not a kid in the US? And how many cases have you reported or heard about to state this with such confidence? Surely it's a better bet than putting that mail out HERE, no?

Argh, gone. Had enough of you and your attempts at one-upmanship.

People, believe what you like. I have had more than enough of Ms Drama here.

[Vergil Hellershanks]

Originally Posted by Ceka Cianci

Do you think it will be Areallot of leaks or just Alot of leaks?

i will eat you!!! lol

[Arkady Arkright]

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

And that, really, is my final word on the matter.

Originally Posted by Ariadne Korda

yet more final words...

Any chance this sideshow could die or go elsewhere ? It isn't really helping the prime objective here...

[Vergil Hellershanks]

who brought the griefer gun into this build area. and why is it spawning drama bombs! D:<