[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

The wiki was never going to provide the proof that is needed, all it does is confirm the intention (and how appalling they are as human beings). It should have been the crowning piece of PR disaster on top of proof they are actively engaged in it in sl which would have forced LLs hand.

I'm talking about (as I keep talking about) going out and seeing if the pd and jlu are still actively breaching the ToS by data collection and alt matching. Even finding more of those cournoyer scanners would have been a huge win but again those kind of practical actions seems to be beyond those who are clamouring for LL action.

Fucking hell, you're hopeless. We have chatlogs of them using it inworld, we have screenshots provided by Cheergirl, we have all sorts of shit IN ADDITION to the wiki. But I guess that's not good enough.

The obsession with the wiki detracts from this. It may give indications of how they're doing it but without real, inworld proof that they're still doing it, it is useless on its own unless there is a public outcry. The time for that has passed, the peeps in here didn't capitalise on the initial interest because they didn't see why there was a need to soundbite the issues.

Real, inworld proof? Like what, the chatlogs and screenshots previously mentioned? Jesus fucking Christ.

We've been through this stuff countless times down the last few weeks. It's even less likely now that LL will take any action at all and if they do it will be because the Herald is highlighting talking points for people to rally round. I do think it is too late now though, public interest is waning.

At least you're right on that count. Bizarro accesses since I started tracking statistics:

[Ashiri]

Originally Posted by Potosi

Okay back to more on topic. Tried out the update to the GZ hud by going to an area that I was pretty sure had a PZ running since it's one of their offices. But it didn't go off for quite some time. I actually had to go into their office and walk around and then it seems pretty much limited to one side of the room. So is the hud range limited or is PZ scanning limited? Anybody got any thoughts on this?

To be honest, I think to only way to be sure there's a PZ around is for me to visit the place. If I suddenly tp home, PZ was there. It might be interesting to see if profiling a scripted object by script count, memory and time is feasible.
(Note to Desmond. There's a ground level security orb, not PZ, in Windemere)

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Ashiri

To be honest, I think to only way to be sure there's a PZ around is for me to visit the place. If I suddenly tp home, PZ was there. It might be interesting to see if profiling a scripted object by script count, memory and time is feasible.
(Note to Desmond. There's a ground level security orb, not PZ, in Windemere)

Could probably do it with a bot, which can inspect the object's inventory and creator.

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

Could probably do it with a bot, which can inspect the object's inventory and creator.

which is what you started to work on 3 (?) weeks ago. Much more practical. The wiki shows what they were doing up until a couple of months ago but the wiki is offsite and LL can wash their hands of it. They can only be forced to act if it can be demonstrated that both the jlu and pd are currently breaking the ToS. There's just not enough outcry to force them to behave ethically in light of the documented behaviour in the wiki. It has to be demonstrated they're doing it inworld.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

which is what you started to work on 3 (?) weeks ago. Much more practical. The wiki shows what they were doing up until a couple of months ago but the wiki is offsite and LL can wash their hands of it. They can only be forced to act if it can be demonstrated that both the jlu and pd are currently breaking the ToS. There's just not enough outcry to force them to behave ethically in light of the documented behaviour in the wiki. It has to be demonstrated they're doing it inworld.

I started to work on it before I realized that I have nothing to test it on, since I'd be doing it in IZ, and there's no documentation for iterating through an object's inventory. Plus, the whole "let's use a bot made by an ex-griefer" thing makes it a bit harder to convince people to use.

Also, the chatlogs and images of Kalel dropping radar prims all over the place are offsite, too. And the logs of ZenMondo (or was it Hewee, I forget) admitting to everything at the Blue meeting. And a bunch of other shit. OH WELL I GUESS THEY'RE UNTOUCHABLE BECAUSE WE HOST SHIT OUTSIDE OF SL.

[Elysium Hynes]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

I started to work on it before I realized that I have nothing to test it on, since I'd be doing it in IZ, and there's no documentation for iterating through an object's inventory. Plus, the whole "let's use a bot made by an ex-griefer" thing makes it a bit harder to convince people to use.

Also, the chatlogs and images of Kalel dropping radar prims all over the place are offsite, too. And the logs of ZenMondo (or was it Hewee, I forget) admitting to everything at the Blue meeting. And a bunch of other shit. OH WELL I GUESS THEY'RE UNTOUCHABLE BECAUSE WE HOST SHIT OUTSIDE OF SL.

I´ll test it and a few others can do it also. I´m sure Chalice can have a look at the scripting and say if there is anything wrong with it, if she´s not to busy, or maybe Sione or another scripter we can totally trust.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Elysium Hynes

I´ll test it and a few others can do it also. I´m sure Chalice can have a look at the scripting and say if there is anything wrong with it, if she´s not to busy, or maybe Sione or another scripter we can totally trust.

Send me a list of the objects present in PZ's inventory, then, and the Creator's name, as well as any identifying stuff.

[Elysium Hynes]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

Send me a list of the objects present in PZ's inventory, then, and the Creator's name, as well as any identifying stuff.

I´ll check it when i get home if someone else doesn´do first

[Chalice Yao]

Originally Posted by Elysium Hynes

I´ll test it and a few others can do it also. I´m sure Chalice can have a look at the scripting and say if there is anything wrong with it, if she´s not to busy, or maybe Sione or another scripter we can totally trust.

Whatwhonow?

Sorry, I'm kinda out of the loop of this thread, with all them derails and me not wanting to read them.

I presume Fred is making a bot to identify PZ? Yeah, that'd work, tho I've not looked at how libomv does object content parsing either. I guess I could check. Just don't expect this to actually work for long.

[Elysium Hynes]

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

Whatwhonow?

Sorry, I'm kinda out of the loop of this thread, with all them derails and me not wanting to read them.

I presume Fred is making a bot to identify PZ? Yeah, that'd work, tho I've not looked at how libomv does object content parsing either. I guess I could check. Just don't expect this to actually work for long.

You´re name just poped up to my head sorry i just mentioned someone trustworthy enough to check the code to be sure Fred put nothing malicious in it, not for me tho, just for anyone who migth wanna use it

[Robble Rubble]

I'm also working.on a second interview with another person effected by the JLU. I figure herald articles are easier to link than telling people to read two whole megathreads. I'm going to try and churn out as many interviews as possible.

Also, Fred, getting frustrated isn't going to help convince anyone of anything.

[Fred Rookstown]

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

Whatwhonow?

Sorry, I'm kinda out of the loop of this thread, with all them derails and me not wanting to read them.

I presume Fred is making a bot to identify PZ? Yeah, that'd work, tho I've not looked at how libomv does object content parsing either. I guess I could check. Just don't expect this to actually work for long.

It's going to be an add-on to my preexisting security bot, so the person running it can queue up multiple parcels to scan and the bot will scan them one-by-one and IM a report every time.

And it'll also reset your estate parcels' terrain and hand out group invites!

[Couldbe Yue]

Originally Posted by Robble Rubble

I'm also working.on a second interview with another person effected by the JLU. I figure herald articles are easier to link than telling people to read two whole megathreads. I'm going to try and churn out as many interviews as possible.

Also, Fred, getting frustrated isn't going to help convince anyone of anything.

He's understandably frustrated, he's put in a lot of work on that wiki and it's going nowhere except for people who want to have some thrills and spills.

It's time to put it to good use and use it as leverage but without catching them red handed it's just good for a bit of reputation damange and as we've seen from that dancehall ship, there's a lot of people out there who'd cheerfully throw the people who provide their income stream under a bus just so they don't have to do a proper job of managing their own regions.

[Marita]

Originally Posted by Ann Otoole

I have a new hideout now. I wonder how long before the spybots arrive.

Wanted to see what all people built that was interesting near my home sim so went flying about ... Ann your place is in the next sim over and I'm sorry about that big blood splat I left on your ban wall when I smashed into it , send me the cleaning bill.

[Innula Zenovka]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

He's understandably frustrated, he's put in a lot of work on that wiki and it's going nowhere except for people who want to have some thrills and spills.

It's time to put it to good use and use it as leverage but without catching them red handed it's just good for a bit of reputation damange and as we've seen from that dancehall ship, there's a lot of people out there who'd cheerfully throw the people who provide their income stream under a bus just so they don't have to do a proper job of managing their own regions.

I dunno. I am certainly showing the wiki to people whom I try to persuade not to use Phantom Zone if and when it gets released generally, and usually they find that document a very persuasive argument against letting the JLU anywhere near their land, let alone accepting scripted objects from them and then rezzing the the things.

[Ceka Cianci]

with all the inworld meetings they have and talk about so many peoples rl's in world..i don't know how JLU hasn't been AR'd to death already..

sure an out of world log on some blog or wiki is out of LL's reach as far as sharing the log..but with a time and date LL has the inworld logs..

it doesn't matter how a person finds out someone was in world sharing their RL information..it's still able to be AR'd because they were doing it in world..

we don't have to say..look at this site LL someone is talking about me..
we just have to say..i am aring them for sharing information about me on this date and time..

these meetings are all in world..JLU should be over with by now just on disclosre AR's since there is no expiration date on an offense like that..

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

I haven't sent an AR because there is no just cause to do so on my part. I have no inworld evidence of a TOS/CS violation and what I do have is beyond the scope of Linden Lab to enforce.

All I have is my story to tell and the hope that someone eventually understands.

[Cathiee McMillan]

[17:53:36] Kal-El So the latest Tux alt is Soviet Hubbenfluff, folks - and Tux Winkler has now posted my real life name on this web site, making his web pick now AR'able under "Disclosure".

So We should all AR Kalel for placing the Krypton radio in his profile.
It has shown to be defaming of people as well as revealing alts of people.
As well as any Land that has them as a music.
That can be AR'd according to Kal-EL is it time to give them a taste of their own medicine?

ALSO: they exposed "Tux's" ALT to others in chat!. tsk tsk thats against the TOS.

[17:57:46] Kal-El Oh, by the way, Tux Winkler's picks advertise his stolen copy of the BrainiacWiki.
[17:58:00] Kal-El And that's AR-able as well.
[17:58:15] Jeremiah The Time Dragon Disclosure's pretty serious, as it is
[17:58:27] Kal-El You would AR that one as disclosure.

Not sure how having a stolen wiki is disclosure?

[18:03:33] Kal-El I feel a little odd filing all these damned abuse reports on one guy.
[18:03:49] Kal-El But he keeps coming up with new ways to break the ToS, three or four times a day.
[18:03:51] Alan Scott They used a prim that had Kal as the creator to spread the stolen BWiki link.
[18:03:53] Kara Zor-El He's an obsessed stalker.
[18:03:59] Fenix Harbinger Ah K
[18:04:09] Siobhan McCallen has he crossed the line into stalker, legally?

Hey Siobhan... Kettle ... Black.... Get it!!!

[18:12:01] Kal-El The fact that he's got himself tangled up in white supremacy groups won't help him in court.
[18:12:19] Kal-El This has some real potential.
[18:12:50] Hal Jordan I think the hard part may be finding something he said that crosses the line into threatening or offensive. He seems to skirt that category.
[18:13:12] Kal-El On the other hand, he published our stolen wiki.
[18:13:22] Kal-El That's trafficking in a sense.

Trafficking? Yea wow that wiki is like a DRUG for them so ok i can see Kal-eLs logic .... ~rolls my eyes~


WAIT WAIT...

[18:17:50] Kal-El The problem is that we do actually have information about him in our Wiki.
[18:18:03] The Dark Knight For better or worse, regardless of your opinions; he's trying to prove a point here. He wants to show that he can capture chat logs and track AVs much like we do.
[18:18:06] Kal-El Well - not so much a problem, really, because it's not published information.
[18:18:15] Kal-El Oh, regarding that.

We have evidence NOW of them taking LOGS from outside SL and filing ARs
See Below...

[18:33:55] The Dark Knight Here's an interesting TOS/CS question.
[18:34:05] Hal Jordan Without us to talk about, he is reduced to blogging about random residents
[18:34:08] Kara Zor-El As long as he hasn't got Kal's current address, he's deadin the wter.
[18:34:16] Kara Zor-El dead in the water
[18:34:28] Kal-El What's the ToS question?
[18:34:31] The Dark Knight And I'm reaching again, in this last blog post, Tux and Atlas have an exchange where Atlas makes a few remarks that aren't so favorable about Kalel.
[18:34:46] Jeremiah The Time Dragon Blog post, outside of SL
[18:34:50] The Dark Knight If we grab that and bring it back inworld as an AR, I wonder if it will fly.
[18:34:51] Kara Zor-El As long as it's not in SL, they dont' care.
[18:34:59] Kal-El I'd say probably not.
[18:35:04] The Dark Knight Yes, naturally, I'm not saying we reference the blog.
[18:35:10] The Dark Knight Just the chat log itself.
[18:35:22] Alan Scott It was a web post of a chat log.
[18:35:26] Kal-El I dunno. That sounds thin.
[18:35:31] Kara Zor-El Ah, so we quote the chat log without the consent of theparticipants. That would make US the violators here.
[18:35:31] The Dark Knight LL will record dig on their own.
[18:35:40] The Dark Knight Which will mean inworld IMs and local chat.
[18:35:40] Jeremiah The Time Dragon Still - it's from outside SL, I don't see them giving it more than an eyeroll
[18:35:49] Kal-El Ordinarily, Kara, yes - but that rule does not apply when you're telling a Linden.
[18:35:57] The Dark Knight We don't reference it was collected from out of world.
[18:36:02] The Dark Knight Just grab the log.
[18:36:08] Alan Scott Not if we only quoted it to the Lindens who have access to that info if they want it.
[18:36:22] Kara Zor-El Hmm. I am just making sure we don't get in any trouble, understand.
[18:36:36] Kal-El You can't "disclose" to a Linden because it's presumed that they already have the information anyway.
[18:36:43] Kara Zor-El Only if it was within 24-48 hours.
[18:36:48] The Dark Knight How we came by the data may be pointless.
[18:36:54] The Dark Knight This was within the last two hours.
[18:37:04] Kal-El Best done quickly, then.
[18:37:05] Kara Zor-El 'Twere best done quickly, then.
[18:37:06] Jeremiah The Time Dragon What exactly did he say?
[18:37:13] The Dark Knight I
[18:37:28] The Dark Knight I'll need to recreate as he prevents text selection on his website

This needs to get to Lindens...
Seriously there is alot of Draconian crap in here and its from this year!!

[Ceka Cianci]

Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways

I haven't sent an AR because there is no just cause to do so on my part. I have no inworld evidence of a TOS/CS violation and what I do have is beyond the scope of Linden Lab to enforce.

All I have is my story to tell and the hope that someone eventually understands.

maybe there is something in these leaks where they are talking about you..we should ask Fred if there is anything maybe?

really if we want them that bad then everyone they talked about should be contacted and then have them AR them each time one bit of information is put out ..

if they do it 10 times in one conversation then AR them 10 times..

these leaks are not useless..because JLU failed for having their meetings in world..

if they are talking about alt detection in world then we'll have to find some way to AR them for that..

the proof won't be in the wiki..the proof is gonna be what we find in the wiki that will show up in LL logs..

what did soft say about devices that can detect alts?
AR them..so why couldn't we AR someone that is talking in world about testing one or making one? or has one but needs to be tweeked..can't we be concerned citizens/residents also??

LL we found information out that someone may be making an alt detector..can you check it out on this time and date..

i don't think it matters how we get wind of things.. as long as we get wind of them and proof shows up on the LL side..

[Bunjie]

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

Proks' MO is to pick people and say egregious things in the hope of getting a response. She gets views to her blog, she gets people responding and gets outrage. It also appears to reinforce what's going on in her head because the pondlife then move it into sl and start harassing her. Its a vicious circle of each side feeding the other.

In the beginning, better people than you fell for it and even now she'll catch people out who should know better but thankfully they catch themselves pretty quickly and go back to ignoring her behaviour. Then there's you lot.

I'm sure she can see in you lot exactly what she saw in WU. Not too bright, hot tempered, not particularly good at seeing her for what she is and the best bit for her is that you respond and not just any old response but insults, abuse, crudity and all manner of schoolyard behaviour that confirm her opinion that you're out of control. Then of course there's the lowlife who are hanging around this thread taking any opportunity they can to stir trouble and you people hand them that opportunity on a platter.

On a side note. You may notice that most people who haven't been affected by this but have been in here being supportive and wanted to help have pretty well vanished and I don't blame them. You're a lost cause because you won't help yourselves, you're too busy whining about the wrongs done to you, being abusive and making badges and tophats to want to do such pesky things as find out if they're still breaking the ToS and getting the proof to force LLs hand.

Well done. You're certainly in line for the "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" award this year.

Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue

The wiki was never going to provide the proof that is needed, all it does is confirm the intention (and how appalling they are as human beings). It should have been the crowning piece of PR disaster on top of proof they are actively engaged in it in sl which would have forced LLs hand.

I'm talking about (as I keep talking about) going out and seeing if the pd and jlu are still actively breaching the ToS by data collection and alt matching. Even finding more of those cournoyer scanners would have been a huge win but again those kind of practical actions seems to be beyond those who are clamouring for LL action.

The obsession with the wiki detracts from this. It may give indications of how they're doing it but without real, inworld proof that they're still doing it, it is useless on its own unless there is a public outcry. The time for that has passed, the peeps in here didn't capitalise on the initial interest because they didn't see why there was a need to soundbite the issues.

We've been through this stuff countless times down the last few weeks. It's even less likely now that LL will take any action at all and if they do it will be because the Herald is highlighting talking points for people to rally round. I do think it is too late now though, public interest is waning.

First it wont win you any points by insulting us, as you more than well know I don't take kindly to others instantiating they're some how better than others, have more intelligence that's just plain rude of you but I'll try to let it pass this time without anger in the interests of not rocking the boat...

And second this has been going on for years, most of the people involved might not be here right now but that as you well know does not mean they don't support whats going on.

The same was said to GLE, just because someone doesn't know about the JLU and PZ or just because they're not here saying they don't want it does not mean they support it or are indifferent it's an unknown metric.

It really just means for those who fly by this issue they don't have the time to fight this day to day like others can because others are forced to do by the JLU daily stalkings and daily meetings and prokofys on going harassment and lies, but if you've noticed they at least come back when something of interest is posted, if the 80+ guests from time to time is of any indicator.

Back when Desmond was being an ass and I was raging and everyone else was slapping him back it was up to 105+, But I guess you see that emotion as "school boy antics" but in fact he was being a real shit for coming here and accusing just like you now seem to think it's acceptable to "see" us as less intelligent for having an emotion in an on going saga of harassment for over 3 years.

Corsi has had the same pain and problems if what he said to me was anything to go by, maybe he brings that on himself but I'd not have the heart to dismiss it and him entirely over what someone else thinks, but I do take it into mind.

While I've been on the cold end of the JLU and prokofy, these people haven't and to disrespect their efforts at changing themselves and becoming a better part of society by you, prokofy and Desmond standing over them on a white horse like Desmond clearly did and dismissing them and their human hearts is morally representable and fills me with disgust.

Remember if this was a parliament most people would change the channel but that doesn't equate they're not interested in the parts that effect them.

We will get round to the parts that effect them, it requires time so just take a break if you need it as we'll still be here doing everything we think is necessary to reach a full conclusion with or without your support.

[Mocksoup Graves]

If you are reading this, and you are griefing Prok, please stop. Thank you.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Originally Posted by Ceka Cianci

maybe there is something in these leaks where they are talking about you..we should ask Fred if there is anything maybe?

There is. I still have to locate my archive of the 2010 leak. I show up in a few meetings, but, mostly only mentioned in clearly speculative statements. In spite of how much I oppose their methods and hugely libelous web content, I respect their right to speak freely within the guidelines of SL.

I have a strong hatred for chilling effects. Even if it's something I'd prefer unsaid.

[Ann Otoole]

Originally Posted by Marita

Wanted to see what all people built that was interesting near my home sim so went flying about ... Ann your place is in the next sim over and I'm sorry about that big blood splat I left on your ban wall when I smashed into it , send me the cleaning bill.

Oh look. The moment you posted this a stalker bot appeared next door.

Thanks for respecting the privacy of others.

Guess I'll leave the ban lines up forever now.

eta: here are some pics so you don't have to be bothered with the now forever permanent ban lines (attached). Also enjoy the green dot. But the parcel will forever be stealthed so you will never see any avatars or hear anything going on there.

[Kara Spengler]

Originally Posted by Fred Rookstown

At least you're right on that count. Bizarro accesses since I started tracking statistics:

I know I for one certainly appreciate the leaks! Just that most of the time when there is a leak I just trust what you say about it and only go read the original source material if I want more context, like who said what.

[Cathiee McMillan]

So GLE in his wisdom...
Has basically said that ALT disclosure was not listed in the TOS till recently and then posts a link of what soft Linden said about it.

Most people don't. Thank you, Dakota.
Soft Linden wrote:

Quote:
Many of you have already noticed that the Disclosure section of the Community Standards page was updated. That was done to more explicitly state that alts are protected from disclosure.

I responded to GLE with this.
Again GLE you prove to me you can not read and comprehend

My spelling and grammar may suck but at least i can read and comprehend what the TOS says.

Again re-read what soft linden wrote. Basically they NEED to spell it out for Idiots like you and the JLU is all he said!!