Grendel's downsizing to half the sims - SLUniverse Forums
Navigation » SLUniverse Forums > Virtual World Discussion > General SL Discussion » Grendel's downsizing to half the sims


General SL Discussion Discuss topics related to Second Life

 
Sponsor:
LIONHEART - We Have Your Land
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-30-2011, 01:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
sick of all the bullshit
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 13,047
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 27, 2007
Blog Entries: 3
Grendel's downsizing to half the sims

Quote:
As goes Grendel’s, so goes the Grid: two out of four sims closing, citing lack of Lab support
August 29, 2011 by primperfect
In 2008, Philip Linden, at a meeting with significant Second Life content creators in San Franscisco said: “As goes Grendel’s, so goes the Grid.”

Well, as of today, half of Grendel’s has gone – and the reason they are citing is the lack of support that they have received from Linden Lab.
As goes Grendel’s, so goes the Grid: two out of four sims closing, citing lack of Lab support « Prim Perfect
*sighs sadly*
__________________
"Push 100cc of Social Skills, stat!" ~Casey Pelous
Aliselia Aeon is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Users Said Thanks :
Old 08-30-2011, 01:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
Orc
Nicole Twigvald
 
Orc's Avatar
Data Traveller
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,259
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May 2010
Business: Pose Monster
That is sad, I love Grendels. I'm glad they aren't totally going away though. How can LL have such bad support? Is that kind of money really nothing to them, or have they given up and are just trying to make as much money as they can without the number of support staff needed. Has the company just always been like that?
__________________
My flickr pictures are here http://www.flickr.com/photos/smileyorc/
Orc is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 01:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
mobile developer

*SLU Supporter*
 
WADE1 Jya's Avatar
apocalypse meow
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CANADA/JAPAN
Posts: 579
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Sep. 12, 2006
Business: The LOLO
Blog Entries: 21
Yeah that is too bad.... I always thought Grendel's was supercool. One of my first favorite places to discover in SL definitely.
WADE1 Jya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 01:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Ann Otoole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 16,373
Things were a lot different back then. There is no longer a reason to shell out for sim sized presence much less multiple sims. Mesh just rolled out so they needed to update into mesh. Soon there will be direct delivery so no land will be needed at all.

Anyway it doesn't matter. The real world economy is what governs SL. And the fact LL will not take action to suppress negative press. Oh well.

And what support did they need exactly?
Ann Otoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 02:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
In Significance
 
Doctor Zen's Avatar
"Only his eyes still said that whatever it was the Universe thought it was doing to him, he would still like it to please stop."
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,640
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 5/14/2009
Client: Firestorm, occasionally Singularity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Otoole View Post
And what support did they need exactly?
The article doesn't say specifically.
Quote:
“I can get spam from Cafe Press, but no answers from Linden Lab,” says Flea Bussy, the leader janitor of Grendel’s (and owner of the Avarian sims) wearily. There is no response to his tickets, and having been told “we’ll call you back” by concierge, there are no replies. “They don’t care.”

After years of patience with Linden Lab, Flea is disappointed in the failure of the Lab to support what is a thriving business in one of the most important areas of the grid – the development of amazing content.

The land sales have gone through swiftly. As Toady Nakamura, Flea’s co-janitor, says wryly, “You wanna sell a sim, the sim brokers will call you right away, they will email you right away. Not like Lindens.”
...
“We took this problem all the way to the CEO,” says Toady, “and it was fixed for 3 days. Then it broke again. We can’t keep going to the top for routine things like ‘we cannot move in our sim’.

Like many people, the team at Grendel’s have respect for Rod Humble and what he is trying to do.

“I think Mr. Rodvik Linden is great, but I think he has a large pile of Inertial Lindens that will not move underneath him,” says Toady. “ Like old time clipper ships, good captain, shanghai’d crew … ship sinks.”
Edit to add bold emphasis.
__________________
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." — Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Doctor Zen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 03:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
sick of all the bullshit
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 13,047
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 27, 2007
Blog Entries: 3
To me Grendel's has always been a symbol of the creativity that is possible in SL. I think of SL, I think of Grendel's. It has always been the first place I have taken anyone I knew who was new to SL.
Aliselia Aeon is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 08-30-2011, 03:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
Solace Beach Owner

*SLU Supporter*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Undisclosed prepper bunker
Posts: 2,161
My Mood:
Business: Solace Beach Estates
Client: Firestorm
This is so sad to me. I loved Grendel's as a newbie. I bought many amazing avatars from them, and had so much fun doing their dragon egg hatching game. Now that was a creative way to do camping/traffic generation...anyone else remember it?

If anyone deserves prime customer support, it's Grendel's. They are one of the greatest creative forces on the grid and I hope Rod Humble will step in and right this wrong.
__________________
Solace Beach Estates: Beautiful Residential & Commercial Land for All Budgets!
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Solace%20Beach/193/48/23
Ayesha Lytton is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Likes This:
Old 08-30-2011, 09:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
Padawan Harper

*SLU Supporter*
 
Khamon's Avatar
Thumbs Up Sweetie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 9,912
My Mood:
SL Join Date: November, 2003
Blog Entries: 1
I'm sorry to see Grendel's downsize as well. I can see closing sims in light of Marketplace developments including direct delivery. I think the Lab are gonna have to up their tax percentage on the website when people realize they no longer need an inworld shop. They will still maybe need somewhere to rez samples, hm, business idea. But it'd be nice if Grendel's were closing these sims as a transition rather than because LL won't properly support users that are so ably promoting the platform.

Quote:
“I can get spam from Cafe Press, but no answers from Linden Lab,” says Flea Bussy, the leader janitor of Grendel’s (and owner of the Avarian sims) wearily. There is no response to his tickets, and having been told “we’ll call you back” by concierge, there are no replies. “They don’t care.”
How dare he say they don't care, I mean really, how dare he. If I've learned anything posting at SLU it's that Linden Lab do care my god I've been told that over and over and over and over again. Why of course they care, it's their life, their income, their world and reputation and cash cow and baby and of course they care of course they do of course. How dare he.
__________________
"You should live every day as if it were the last day for the people around you. Just be nice to them; they need it." - Grandma Bates
Khamon is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Laughed:
Old 08-30-2011, 09:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,818
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 03/17/2004
What the hell is Grendel's?
Eboni Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 09:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
Had enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,476
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eboni Khan View Post
What the hell is Grendel's?
They sell avatars... mainly in a fantasy vein: dragons, walking trees, curious sprite-things, etc. Some of them are pretty unique.
Loraan Fierrens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 10:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
Tainted Tigar
 
Dickie Swansong's Avatar
I'm sawrry, but I dun' prey taht wai!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Free Range Tigar
Posts: 4,463
My Mood:
SL Join Date: July 5, 2006
Client: Dun' compromise mai privacies!

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eboni Khan View Post
What the hell is Grendel's?
Plug it inta search next time ya have about 'leventyseven hours ta browse a inworld shop. They have some of the most original n' singular AVs available.

I have an alt who's a tree, an ash with a pigeons nest inna branches. Sometimes the pigeon flies off n' goes flappity flappin' around. Got it at Grendels.
__________________
A friend of mine recently said " I think gumbo is just a bucket of swamp water boiled with anything that swam or crawled in " He ain' wrong. (horngry now)

If the seasons is spices, then winter is cumin

Fun Facts 'bout Tigars #8. When several tigers are present at a kill, the males will often wait for females and cubs to eat first, unlike lions, which do the opposite. Tigers rarely argue or fight over a kill and simply wait turns.
Dickie Swansong is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 10:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
Just Joshin'
 
Joshooah Lovenkraft's Avatar
I like you the best but please don't tell the others, eh
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The land of rainbows and unicorns
Posts: 1,975
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 12 2007
Client: Commodore 64

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Oh that's really too bad. I'm not a huge fan of non-human avatars but the stuff they sell is very well made at exceptionally low prices. I've also been a big fan of the builder's Show & Tell on Sundays that they generously allow to be hosted on their land but I'm glad that will still continue.
__________________

Joshooah Lovenkraft is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Users Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 10:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,818
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 03/17/2004
If you aren't getting support wouldn't you get rid of all your sims, not just a couple?

I really hate these stories because it is always an easy way to make LL look bad since people can say whatever they want about the lab, and the lab won't respond for privacy and everyone knows it. They could just be behind on tier, and we will never know.
Eboni Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 10:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
dorkasaurus

*SLU Supporter*
 
Carter-Madhu's Avatar
good looking ullu di patthi
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N.E. United States
Posts: 2,665
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Nov 2007
Client: Viewer 2.x
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eboni Khan View Post
If you aren't getting support wouldn't you get rid of all your sims, not just a couple?

I really hate these stories because it is always an easy way to make LL look bad since people can say whatever they want about the lab, and the lab won't respond for privacy and everyone knows it. They could just be behind on tier, and we will never know.
I'm inclined to agree with this.

I love Grendel's as much as everyone else, but something about the way this story is being spun makes it feel to me like little more than routine LL-bashing. Which is not to say there aren't plenty of good reasons to criticize LL, but turning this story into "Those bastards killed Grendel's!" seems imprecise and perhaps premature.

I can't understand why Grendel's would downsize their property in response to bad service. It certainly won't improve their service. Perhaps they are getting rid of whatever sim has been causing them the problems, but they'll be in the same boat the next time they have technical trouble. I don't see how reducing from 4 to 2 addresses the service problems. I suppose it could be a form of protest, but I don't know ... if you're really that mad about service, I would think you'd want to give LL no money at all, not just half the amount you were giving before. It just doesn't feel like the whole story to me.

It seems just as likely to me that they've decided to downsize for other reasons, and have chosen to publicize it as though it were related to the service problems, as a way to draw the attention of LL (including Rodvik, despite protestations to the contrary) - and to lay the blame for the decision to downsize in a way that draws a lot of sympathy. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I don't doubt that their service experience has been frustrating. But there is something about the way this story is being presented that doesn't quite add up to me; I just have to give it a bit of a skeptical eye. I'm willing to be proven wrong with more information, but I neither expect more information nor feel particularly entitled to it.
Carter-Madhu is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Laughed:
1 User Said Thanks:
2 Users Disagreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Zaida Gearbox's Avatar
I finally got it all together, but now I forget where I put it.
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New Palermo
Posts: 6,133
My Mood:
Damn. I clicked on this thinking, "I hope it's not THAT Grendel's..." but it is.
Zaida Gearbox is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 10:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
sick of all the bullshit
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 13,047
My Mood:
SL Join Date: October 27, 2007
Blog Entries: 3
I really don't care much what the reason is. It still saddens me a bit.
Aliselia Aeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
SLShapeshifter's Avatar
Really must get moving
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: right behind you
Posts: 255
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 5
*gasp* Not the news I wanna wake up to! O.O

They said in chat that they aren't doing mesh, and NO IT WON'T FUCKING KILL THEM. They've got a niche that can't be easily filled. This doom and gloom stuff has GOT TO STOP.
SLShapeshifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
Mercenary of Illusion
 
Isablan Neva's Avatar
Disruptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California! We do disasters right!
Posts: 3,949
My Mood:
SL Join Date: November, 2004
Business: Skybox Nirvana, Tenth Muse Furniture
Nobody who's making solid money downsizes due to "lack of support."

I'd have more respect if they just came out and said "sales are in the toilet and we don't see the Lab doing anything to get more users in the front door and sticking."

At least be honest about what's really going on.
__________________
________________________________

SLU: I came for the community. I stayed for the derails.


Visit my Marketplace Store!
Isablan Neva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
syncing with reality
 
Couldbe Yue's Avatar
Mixing metaphors, splitting infinitives and dealing with rogue apostrophes
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,011
My Mood:
SL Join Date: a while ago
Business: Satiated Desires
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter-Madhu View Post
I'm inclined to agree with this.

I love Grendel's as much as everyone else, but something about the way this story is being spun makes it feel to me like little more than routine LL-bashing. Which is not to say there aren't plenty of good reasons to criticize LL, but turning this story into "Those bastards killed Grendel's!" seems imprecise and perhaps premature.

I can't understand why Grendel's would downsize their property in response to bad service. It certainly won't improve their service. Perhaps they are getting rid of whatever sim has been causing them the problems, but they'll be in the same boat the next time they have technical trouble. I don't see how reducing from 4 to 2 addresses the service problems. I suppose it could be a form of protest, but I don't know ... if you're really that mad about service, I would think you'd want to give LL no money at all, not just half the amount you were giving before. It just doesn't feel like the whole story to me.

It seems just as likely to me that they've decided to downsize for other reasons, and have chosen to publicize it as though it were related to the service problems, as a way to draw the attention of LL (including Rodvik, despite protestations to the contrary) - and to lay the blame for the decision to downsize in a way that draws a lot of sympathy. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I don't doubt that their service experience has been frustrating. But there is something about the way this story is being presented that doesn't quite add up to me; I just have to give it a bit of a skeptical eye. I'm willing to be proven wrong with more information, but I neither expect more information nor feel particularly entitled to it.
I assumed that those 2 regions were probably public spaces and if they're not actually part of the shop set up and they're wasting so much of the owner's time, it's sensible to just dump them and keep the income generators going. It's all very well to be giving back to the community but if the aggravation factor starts to outweigh the perceived benefit then something has to give. Particularly if their sales are mirroring the general downward inworld sales trend.
__________________
Quote:
“There is no need to change your life,” Jean Baudrillard once wrote. “All you need is to have two.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo Quisquam View Post
"Sansar: come for the user created 3D content, stay forever in an endless cycle of attachment and disappointment!"
Couldbe Yue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Ciaran Laval's Avatar
Confused
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: England
Posts: 4,784
I would be amazed if they were downgrading if their sales are extremely healthy, it would make no sense to downgrade, even with poor support.

However if sales are starting to dip, frustrations regarding poor support will come to the fore, making the downgrade decision easier.
Ciaran Laval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 11:43 AM   #21 (permalink)
Sim crossing test dummy
 
BJ Tunwarm's Avatar
I am the nice one
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 648
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khamon View Post
I'm sorry to see Grendel's downsize as well. I can see closing sims in light of Marketplace developments including direct delivery. I think the Lab are gonna have to up their tax percentage on the website when people realize they no longer need an inworld shop. They will still maybe need somewhere to rez samples, hm, business idea. But it'd be nice if Grendel's were closing these sims as a transition rather than because LL won't properly support users that are so ably promoting the platform.
Grendel's doesn't use the marketplace.

Me, I take it is as a sign LL is doing good since they are back to treating the residents like shit again.
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Whole sims on fire off with griefer particle spam off the shoulder of Nautilus . I watched bling glitter in the shadows of Kristen Viewer. All these moments will be lost in time, like posts on an IM chat... Time to log off.“ Botrunner.
BJ Tunwarm is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Laughed:
1 User Agreed:
Old 08-30-2011, 11:46 AM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
SLShapeshifter's Avatar
Really must get moving
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: right behind you
Posts: 255
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 5
Been inworld, and Couldbe is correct. It was Avaria Kro and Avaria Sav that got the axe. Avaria and Avaria Tor (where the shop is) are intact. *whew*
SLShapeshifter is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Users Said Thanks :
Old 08-30-2011, 11:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mercedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,643
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2009
Client: Firestorm

Awards: 1
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
Wow. That is sad. Often times I feel like SL is a sinking ship and I should get out while I still can.
Mercedes is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
Old 08-30-2011, 12:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Grendel's HAS closed two sims because of support issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isablan Neva View Post
Nobody who's making solid money downsizes due to "lack of support."

I'd have more respect if they just came out and said "sales are in the toilet and we don't see the Lab doing anything to get more users in the front door and sticking."

At least be honest about what's really going on.
Grendel's are making solid money. Solid enough to carry four sims, with the store being based on just one of them - and the other three for play and development. They could continue to do that financially - but instead the lack of customer support means they've been bogged down with issues (like sims freezing, Viewer 3 crashing, Linden Lab ignoring requests to change the photo in the Destination Guide which they think is mis-leading, support tickets being closed with an 'everything is fine' message when it clearly isn't etc. etc) rather than focusing on development.

And in parenthesis I'd add that thse are extremely competent and tech savvy people, and part of a large circle of competent and tech savvy people - if they are having problems that they can't fix themselves, they need to be taken seriously - they will definitely have tried the fundamentals for themslves.

So - Grendel's are not going to close the store - it's still very profitable. And they know that people like to have a chance to try out their new avatars and to play some of the games that Grendel's enjoys making - and that many respected creators around the grid use the development potential. So another sim stays for all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue View Post
I assumed that those 2 regions were probably public spaces and if they're not actually part of the shop set up and they're wasting so much of the owner's time, it's sensible to just dump them and keep the income generators going. It's all very well to be giving back to the community but if the aggravation factor starts to outweigh the perceived benefit then something has to give.
That's the story - these sims were beautiful public spaces.

None of the individual support issues was, I think, a dealbreaker in itself, but each oone was one more ongoing niggle that ends with hands thrown up in despair. Famously, it’s individual straws that do for the camel.
Saffia Widdershins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 12:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Ciaran Laval's Avatar
Confused
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: England
Posts: 4,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLShapeshifter View Post
Been inworld, and Couldbe is correct. It was Avaria Kro and Avaria Sav that got the axe. Avaria and Avaria Tor (where the shop is) are intact. *whew*
Yup seems that way, I'm told it really was simply down to sheer frustration and the problems on these sims taking up too much of the time of the creators.
Ciaran Laval is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Users Said Thanks :
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




SEO by vBSEO