Mercedes

All joking aside, your group posted real life info on people including how many children they have in their homes and even stating on one page I looked at that there was a newborn there. Are you a parent? If so, how can you possibly think that is acceptable? Would you really want people who had an ax to grind with you knowing where you live and that you had young children in your home?

Please don't use the "I didn't put it there and I don't condone everything they do" excuse. That's like saying I am in the KKK but I don't wear a sheet and hang people.

You keep stating no one is in danger. Does someone have to get hurt before you change your mind?

I don't think hacking into your wiki is right, but it is a sure fire sign that your super secret database is not so super secret. I mean really, how do you think one would feel when they read their wiki file on themselves and see private health information has been posted there for public digestion? Whomever wrote out the entry on this person's health even went so far to say that he may be terminal and thus "has nothing to lose" inferring that he/she is some ticking time bomb that would use their last moments on Earth to nerd rage over fake super heros in a game. I have a clue for you. I doubt you, Second Life and any of your caped crusading friends would be a blip on their radar. I know, that probably disappoints you.

Someone doesn't have to be killed to be hurt. There is all kinds of ways for private real life information to be used in a hurtful way or fall into the wrong hands. You have moles in your group. The information is not secure.

Even if your super secret secure wiki was really truly secure (and we know it's not) I would object to it. I don't want my real life information falling into the hands of hackers and ending up posted all over the Internet just AS MUCH as I don't want my real life information posting on a site for YOU and YOUR GROUP to peruse at their convenience and pleasure. You are your group do not have a right to anyone's real life information simply because you wear super hero costumes and pretend to be law enforcers in a make believe life. I think I would rather have my info in the hands of the hackers than in your corrupt group's hands.

NotoriousD

Well, I'm buzzed and tired, just watched The Punisher and Rambo, figured I'd check back.

Doesn't look like anything's changed much and everything's still going. I would like to note that I find this makes very little sense, the uh...the whole thing really, with GLE saying that he won't let the argument that the leak occurred as whistleblowing and offworld slide with him.

If everything I've read so far makes any common sense, Venkman's decision to utterly demolish the W-Hat group using an alt affected approximately around 880 accounts that were members of said group. The owner got banned, and Venkman's alt, in officer status, could freely ban all members but the handful of other officers present any time he pleased. Due to lack of a group owner, the other officers couldn't remove Venkman, who was the same status.

I mean, it's the same standard rule, like a moderator can't remove another moderator, the admin has to do it. But no admin was present. This was, while performed with ill intent, or possibly the misplaced intent to do good, and majorly against the terms of service, an effective tactic.

The Justice League Unlimited Wiki Leak affected a group of 40 people who were harvesting real life information on those that they wanted to.

Now, to put this in retrospect. I've known for a while that the JLU is more than willing to take part in activities of ill moral and repute just to achieve their ends. Hell, a couple of them gloated to me about that once. And no, GLE, I cannot provide official proof or logs of that, it being two years and several clean OS installs ago, and me not really giving a damn enough to keep chat logs documented.

Anyway, so far, I've managed to confirm the following: GLE brought up Thespian, and claimed he won't go for it being whistleblowing or outside SL. He does, however, seem unconcerned that Venkmen's actions, from a technical standpoint, were even more volatile.

Now let's just back that up. I said "technical standpoint". So now, let us look at it from a moral standpoint:

As I said, Venkman's actions affected over 800 accounts.

Thespian's affected around 40, that number being the JLU.

Venkman's actions were apparently to simply get rid of the group.

Thespian's actions were to reveal the information that they have been compiling against people's wishes.

Venkman's actions resulted in little hostile reaction towards him and the JLU by W-Hat, to my knowledge at least.

Thespian's actions incited the JLU to DMCA every server that hosted the wiki and every third party link that provided a download of it, harass those that hosted it, threaten with legal action, apparently get an attorney(and I remember some mention at one instance of Grunfeld saying they were getting the FBI in on it), slander the hell out of Woodbury University and The Wrong Hands for it, and try to get them removed from SL even moreso than usual.

So, GLE. You tell me where you draw the line on the situation becoming too out of control when it comes to your 'boss'. You certainly seem eager to put Thespian on a podium more than Venkman when it comes to "Who did wrong?".

Now to go back to watching World's Dumbest. Not the one here, the one on TV.

Debi Dastardly

Having been a victim of a stalker, and a public servant in RL. I find the prospect of anyone collecting data on me or anyone else very frightening. I have a big problem with anyone collecting notes on me without my knowledge or approval.

Anyone who has been the victim of a stalker knows just how much it effects every aspect of your life at the time, and how it changes the way you live your life. My false sense of security has been broken for good and I have huge trust issues that will be with me forever.

GLE I have known you inworld if there is anything in that JLU wiki please make sure it is destroyed.

I always found you to be reasonable but I have to say this. Please stop covering for deeds done by the JLU under the pretense of looking out for we small people out here on the grid.

Tux

Don't forget he interviewed Masa for krypton radio just after killing the group, with no mention!

Code Slacker

Yeah that's a really dickish thing to say. You'd think they'd be more sympathic too, having lost one of their own.

Beezle Warburton

Wow. Do you honestly never think for yourself?

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Beezle Warburton

.

Darnk Yun

__________________
Ahaha, such a simpleton. It'z so much fun playing jokez on you. I waz only here to see how she waz doing, but I had fun while I waz at it. So long, Sere, au revoir, mon ami! Pleaze dream of moi every night! Oui! ~ Harle

http://leechmouth.deviantart.com/

GreenLantern Excelsior

I think the quote was "What would God need with a starship?"

In a way, his actions were acceptable. As an officer in the group, he had the authority to eject other group members. Now as to whether it was right to do so, I was told that the group had no owner, that there was a war being fought for control, and that the group's days were numbered and it was going to die anyway. It may be that the members were ejected to remove the group as a potential threat to the grid, since their officers were mostly members of The Wrong Hands and they had been involved with griefing, for example, the Overcomers Church Worldwide and the Green Lantern Core. So yeah, I would say the actions there were acceptable too.

Phantom Zone does not collect IP addresses.

Good night, everyone, it's been fun...sort of.

__________________

Joshua Nightshade

Do you have a natural knack for being such a putz, or is it a skill you went to school for to cultivate?

__________________

Anguissette

"I didn't kill my wife." -OJ Simpson

"I did not have sex with that woman." -Bill Clinton

"I did nothing wrong." -Charlie Manson

"Phantom Zone does not collect IP addresses." -Superhero impersonator


A lot of people say a lot of things. Forgive me if I don't necessarily believe them all unquestioningly. I think my problem is, I was taught to think.

Ryokashi

W-hat is not The Wrong Hands. The officers of W-hat were not members of The Wrong Hands. And even if they were, The Wrong Hands was not purged and is not a banned group. You constantly say you leave actual actions up to the Lindens but this was you taking things into your own hands and destroying a group from the inside. Just because the owner of the group had been banned and the group was in chaos did not give you the right to suddenly act as the grand savior by intentionally destroying the group.

It does not matter if you are an officer of a group. Intentionally harming a group in any way is a violation of the Terms of Service. You knew you had no right to be doing this in the first place which is why Kalel used an alt to do it in the first place.

(iv) Engage in malicious or disruptive conduct that impedes or interferes with other users' normal use of the Service;

This is from the Terms of Service. By intentionally destroying the group, officer or not, Kalel broke the ToS. You cannot say it is okay to do something just because you have the ability to. I have the ability to spam these forums with pictures of horse penises, that does not make it okay.

Anguissette

At last, I have caught up with reading everything here. You people need to slow down on posting so much, it's killing my bladder, only having time for a toilet break once a day.

(Listens to the sounds of typing as several men in capes and disturbingly tight tights start taking notes about me...
"The perpetrator, Anguissette, appears to have some bladder weakness disability problems. Suggest that when we kick her while she's down, we aim for the bladder area."
For the record, though, my bladder is fine. Now stop taking notes!)

Velvet Bikcin

Because of course, everything the JLU has done to this point has been so trustworthy.

This thing is done, the members of the JLU have a choice, quit, or go down with the sinking ship.

__________________
"Don't touch the things, this is a local shop for local people, there's nothing for you here."

Velvet Bikcin

So the leader of a group does something nefarious, so the entire group should be disbanded?

Do as you say GLE, but not as you do?

NotoriousD

1. By that logic, it was okay for Thespian to leak the wiki, because it was going to happen sooner or later anyway. I mean, look at the recent events here. Also that Thespian had the authority to view the wiki, and even though you say it won't fly, the purpose to whistle blow your collecting of real life information and the fact that it was outside of SL. So we also have good intentions and an action done without violating the ToS. It doesn't always matter what a single individual thinks, GLE. It doesn't matter whether or not you accept what I'm saying. My point is, you're trying to justify what was a wrongful action. So am I to believe that you can justify Venkman's actions, yet Thespian's actions cannot be such?

2, and if this is deemed too private to, uh, post, this next part can just be removed, I really don't care:

Joshua Nightshade

Yeah that's the thing. I'm certainly not fond of people who make sport out of running around and fucking with others' enjoyment of Second Life (or anything else), whether they're doing so because they believe these people "deserve it" because they take things too seriously or whatever else.

But between the two you have infantile obnoxiousness on one hand and people who have appointed themselves responsible for taking care of it on the other -- the latter is willing to go above and beyond griefing sandboxes to compiling information about people without their consent, filling up a wiki with information that has nothing to do with SL at all and verges on stalking.

To me, someone who is going to be about as neutral on this stupidity as you can get, only one "side" comes out looking better. Here's a hint, it's not GreenLantern the racist or any of his buddies who think they have the right to do this sort of shit, collateral damage be damned.

I really hope one of the many Lindens who read SLU are paying attention to this thread. Whatever good and whatever help the JLU might have provided in the past, it's clear they are largely not sane enough to continue doing so in the present. Whether this involves explicit disbanding of the group and their assets by LL or what I don't know, but I certainly hope no Linden who is aware of this shit allows them to tag along in any future capacity.

Ryokashi

The leader of the group never did anything bad. There still has been no word from LL as to why his account was terminated, but he hadn't been online in months and the last time he was online all he did was do maintenance on his name2key system, which is still widely being used across the grid now even after his ban.

Astolat Dufaux

GreenLantern, I don't think most people here really give a shit about your Phantom Zone toy anymore.

This goes FAR beyond harvesting IP addresses.

It appears your group has found other means of obtaining personal information on people. As a journalist, I know there are plenty of "legal" ways to obtain information that you have listed in your wiki -- I'm sure someone in JLU has a Lexis Nexis account, by the look of it.

The "outing" of zFire's identity, for example, as far as I could determine, was also obtained LEGALLY, based on public records available to the general public.

What is NOT readily available to journalists or the general public is medical information, thanks to The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Now I don't know how this information on Rob was obtained, but clearly it demonstrates that someone in the chain of patient privacy gave out information -- and that's illegal.

I find it extremely disturbing that you are so dismissive of the fact that some of the people within the group you support are collecting this VERY personal information on people -- that you can continue to associated with people who are engaging in illegal activities, not to mention breaking a number of anti-stalking laws in various states.

The same could be said for the people who are "outing" the personal information on JLU members. I don't condone that. There are, however, legal ways to obtain this information, it just takes a little more legwork -- which is what professional and citizen journalists do everyday.

And making excuses by saying that this information isn't being collected inworld is bullshit. You know damn well that JLU members are openly mocking and circumventing TOS by gathering this information outside of SL.

At this point, it's beyond the issue of whether Linden Lab rules are being broken -- that's just the tip of the iceberg. You are clearly entering territory where law enforcement -- such as the FBI -- should be informed of the JLU's stalking activities.

Again, I say, shame on you, JLU.

And now that I've probably been identified as some sort of SL dissident for expressing my opinion, you're welcome to add to my new file that I just finished breast cancer treatment after having a double mastectomy and nearly dying twice during chemotherapy -- I suppose you could say I, like this Rob person (whom I have never met) have "nothing to lose" now because of my health conditions -- therefore I could probably pose a danger to the grid too.

Only this humble Victorian seamstress has a journalism degree (and 20+ years of experience) and is not afraid to use it -- and I don't have to break the law to do so.

__________________
Montagne Noire - For the Virtual Victorian: Clothiers & Furnishings • Marketplace • "The Victorian Closet" Blog

Velvet Bikcin

I don't give a flying fig who the members of the JLU are, I just want them to quit screwing around.

Anguissette

It's a cowardly man who preys upon the weak, the sick and disabled. Or perhaps, not a man at all.

Velvet Bikcin

I think it's safe to say that there are no men in the JLU.

Hitomi Tiponi

After all the fuss about RL adults playing children in SL, I think we need some outrage about all these children playing RL adults! Let's hope they find another playground soon.

Misty Harley

I would like to think your just not getting it but I highly doubt that.

It doesn't matter who or why or what Joshua was or is or isn't friends with/enemy's with or any of the below or above.

By compiling the information, placing it into a webpage without his prior knowledge or consent or ability to have it removed, let alone viewed via public access....the JLU broke laws as in real United States Laws.

You are not the police. You are not the FBI. You are not the CIA or the special services.

And it wasn't just Joshua you did this too. Health information on someone....why? What is the purpose of that? Why is it needed to role play out a security force on the grid?

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Max Herzog

Because seriously or terminally ill people will rearrange their priorities (as they've "nothing to lose", clearly) and wreak havoc on the grid. These are dangerous, unstable people and need to be monitored.

Btw, GLE, your mealy-mouthed selective interpretation routine here is almost as ridiculous as your Arpaio idolatry.

__________________
I do not like your tone. It has ephemeral, whinging aspects.

last.fm