Sione

.. and the person controlling the avatar account.

Rod they are waiting for a reply. Please give them one.

Sione

If that is it, I have a feeling that this is going to be gnawing away at LL for quite some time yet.

Cathiee McMillan

Prok,
Prok, It is not the JLUs position to send or contact the school. It is the responsability of Lindens. If LL does not feel the need to then JLU SHOULD not be taking on themselves to do this. They do not RUN or OWN secondlife.
They have been given NO formal training to properly Contact people outside of SL.
Attempting to contact employers? Should people maybe not log on from work?

It doesn't matter if these people are Griefers in SL. In real life they may own business or they me college students or any number of things.
Obviously you haven't read all the pages but Collecting and Storing data that the JLU collects either thru Searches or thru possible deception is the issue. They do not have the security or peoples permission to Store Such information.
If they are playing Private P.I.s I request to see their Investigators License. ~GASP they can't show us that ~ I have asked them to Show me their ISO Data collecting security Standards for storing this information on their site. GASP they are unable to provide this as well.
You know acting like a Private Investigator and not having a license for it can open them up to legal issues. It is against the law for anyone to work as a private investigator without a license, and people with felony convictions are barred from getting a license, except in rare cases.

Also Prok, i try to give you the benifit of the doubt, but just like the JLU you seem to only see Woodbury here. I suggest you move on from this whole woodbury past issue.

Onto GLE:
So they say the stuff has been removed, but they got locked out of the WIKI. ~LOL~ Sorry yea thats funny.

I can see it
Kal: Ok guys i removed EVERY refrence to personal infor even in all the chats. Oh and I am locking he Wiki up to Just ME to see.
JLU: Ok
Kal: Ok the story is and please get this right, "All RL info has been Purged". Don't tell them your locked out got it.
JLU: Yes Boss
~Later~
KAL @ GLE: WTF GLE
GLE: What what happen?
KAL: You told them I locked down the Wiki
GLE: No I didn't
KAL: Yes you did see < pasts the SLU chat>
GLE: Oh i thought we could say that.
KAL: Nooooo, Damit I knew your SL last name was a hint you were a marvel fan really. Damn you Marvel Heads can never keep secrets. Now I need to come up with another story.

Marx Dudek

The way to prove the JLU has amended their ways is not to restrict Wiki access to even its own members, but to open it up for public inspection.

Of course, a good reason for them not to do this is because a Wiki never forgets. And a Wiki can always be reverted to a previous edit.

If someone tells you that they've changed their ways, but have locked you out of the only way for you to verify that they have, and you still believe them, sight unseen - you're one of two things:

1. Intentionally deceitful, or;
2. A cult member.

__________________

Cathiee McMillan

WHAT the HELL. LINDEN LABS got this Letter from the JLU.

LL you have it in writting that the JLU is using stuff to collect DATA on people to be used in and out of SL.
I did not give my consent for JLU to do this I do not support the JLU to be Linden Labs police force. LL you should remove the JLU from SL.

They have known this from last year I am disgusted!!

Bunjie

No they've known since 2006 or earlier, remember PLEXUS LINDEN had one of their HUDS, and was very happy to use it when he was doing governance and resolving disputes.

This is one reason hes fired.

[edit] I always maintained on the AH (under Judge Joker) that he was using scripts to pull in RL data that is in reality still (disclosure) through this loophole in the TOS, and as such it was one thing I wanted to pursue, a change in the TOS to stop his huds. I can only imagine policy changes require a great upheaval in the service, but here we are one step closer to closure as a united community.

__________________

Sione

Could be time for another open letter to Rod.

Dear Rod,

WE DO NOT WANT VIGILANTE, DO-GOODER, BUSY-BODY, WANNABE POLICE GROUPS IN SL.

WE DID NOT ASK FOR THEM AND WE DO NOT NEED THEM. THEY ENCOURAGE THE KIND OF PEOPLE THEY TRY TO SAVE US FROM AND CAN NOT BE TRUSTED BECAUSE THEY STOP AT NOTHING TO "WIN".

IF YOU THINK THIS KIND OF THING IS REQUIRED. DO IT YOURSELF PLEASE.

Thank you for your time.

Marx Dudek

No TPV is inherently trustworthy even if it is listed in the directory. The directory does not prove that LL has done anything but accepted the listees at their word.

Emerald was in that list once.

Any third-party viewer is a potential risk.

Sione

Btw I conducted my own investigation in to Robble Rubble and found out he is a spy.

SL Candid Pictures

Arkady Arkright

There's something about this possibility (however unlikely) that gives me enormous amusement... :-)

bronxelf

A while ago (way way way back in this thread) Velvet made the point that sometimes rules need to be made, because if they're not, people will act like idiots. (this is my paraphrase, not his words.)

I told him that the problem though is that with people determined to act like idiots, they will continually split hairs in order to dance around the spirit of any rule- so long as it obeys the strict letter of it- and that leads to an endless amount of rules piled one atop the other, as there is a race to find a new way to dance around the spirit whilst obeying the letter.

Velvet, my friend? This right here? Was what I meant.

*sigh*

__________________

Marx Dudek

I am quite amused at watching how the thought processes of these groups slowly (or sometimes quickly) descends into complete madness. You can see that they sense that their grip on "powah" is ebbing quickly, and they are ... well, permit me to quote from Office Space:

SAMIR
Shit, shit, shit, shit. Son of a bitch! Shit! This is a - fuck! Son of
a bitch! Shit!

Misty Harley

You know, I've really been thinking about this post. At first I wanted to smash that agree button, especially about 'creating' but then I had to take a moment and really think.

I refuse to blame one group for the actions of another person/group. We are all responsible for our own actions and that includes the reaction to someone else's action.

Ok..so a few groups were formed in SL with the idea that they would grief. I'm not exactly sure all of what those groups did other then create lag and fill up sand boxes with stupid shit. Or swear a lot on voice, etc. Was it worse then that? Possibly and most likely, so please don't think I'm making light of it. I'm not, I just don't have all those details.

So...they did some bad things. It was Kal's choice and that of the JLU to turn around and do 'bad things' in return. AR parties, gathering RL information and getting people booted out of college, contacting a sister while her brother lay dieing with one last parting shot, calling places of business's in hopes of getting someone fired, etc.

Nobody told JLU that they HAD to do those things. Nobody told Kal that was the ONLY way it could be handled. We all have choices and they chose to do all that on their own. They decided put out a fire with gasoline.

That's not the fault or creation of any other group that is or has been or will be in SL.

People do idiotic things in SL all the time. Other people manage to chose to do the right thing, which would involve mute, ban and AR if it's warranted.

So no, I can't really agree with the idea that these groups created Kal. He created himself and his group made the choice to follow along with his ideas and back him up. That lies squarely on the shoulders of Kal and the JLU and nobody else.

BTW...this is not saying that I think these groups are innocent of any wrong doing.

__________________

Marx Dudek

This just smacks of "O HAI EVERYONE LOOKING OVER OUR SHOULDER WE WERE NEVER COLLECTING IP INFORMATION IT WAS JUST A REALLY FUNNY JOKE"

Robble Rubble

I'm re-iterating, I used to AR Kalel for his brainiac terminal and hud systems, every day for a month back after the 2010 wiki leak. I knew how the damn thing worked, I knew it had the capabilities to spit out wiki pages.

Nothing was done until it was brought to public attention.

It's over a year later but I wanted to thank everyone in the thread for making it possible to get that POS removed.



Oh no I've been found out, I need to burn all the comics quickly and throw out my superman action figures before the feds get here!

We're not, I admit it. I have done things that broke community standards but I never tried to interfere with anyone's SL business (unless you count sion chickens a buisness, but there were so many circumstances tied to those). I have no problem admitting that, but I think everyone is much more worried about the people who won't admit that.

Innula Zenovka

It's encouraging in that it suggests that the JLU's abuses are now very much on LL's radar; that, as I recall, was the first sign that both Emerald and Red Zone were on the skids.

I'm assuming that LL have told them that the prohibition is on sharing or making available information in world rather than where it's kept. That is, if someone makes a device using web on a prim or llLoadUrl at points to, for example, an entry about someone in the Encyclopedia Dramatica and leaves it rezzed in world, the fact that the objectionable material it's showing people is hosted elsewhere doesn't constitute an excuse.

Though I guess this does raise a few general questions about the propriety of sharing links in-world generally. I'm assuming, for example, that this means I shouldn't post, in in-world chat, direct links to some of the posts in this thread or some of the articles in the Alphaville Herald; presumably, though, there's no objection to saying there's interesting threads about the JLU over at SLU and the Alphaville Herald.

On a more general point, I think that JLU's claim to be nothing more than a "Neighbourhood Watch" scheme needs closer examination.

I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in the UK, Neighbourhood Watch schemes certainly encourage people to report suspicious/anti-social behaviour to the police, but their primary emphasis is on working with the police to publicise crime-prevention initiatives, like encouraging property-marking schemes, reminding people of the necessity of checking the credentials of unexpected visitors who claim to be from the utility companies and the like.

They most emphatically don't encourage people to RP being detectives, to engage in "black ops" or to compile wikis, whether secure or insecure, full of speculation about people's supposed sexual preferences, white blood cell count or anything else.

__________________

Cathiee McMillan

@ Sione

If someone could write a nice letter for the Lindens and supply the e-mail address to who we should send it too. I will send it to them. And i think everyone should.
The Letter should also include these images from the JLU wiki leaks. to show them where the information was taken from.

Its just wrong that certain groups are allowed to act against the TOS and others are not.

Bunjie

Quick question to Chris, does SLU have it's own sim? if not considering most of the people in this thread are interesting and creative it'd be nice to have a "SLU Home sim" to hang out on, that's free from being over reported for minor offenses, e.t.c e.t.c

Kalel Sold "hero island" to an alt? idk perhaps if he get's kicked out SLU can take over the Justice Island Sim, irony of lulzic proportions but for the right reasons.

I'd like closure to move on, but if SLU had a Sim I'd have a reason to at least hang out from time to time inSL and I think others would as well who don't have anywhere but here left to go. I can't think of a better place I'd be more interested to be to meet a wide range of residents and ex-residents in one place.

Misty Harley

Robble, I put that in there because I can 'see' certain people going "YOU THINK THEY ARE INNOCENT" in all caps with alot more !!!! along with whatever their strange little minds can come up with. Before you know it, I'm leading TWH, married to one of you and not really a farmer but some sort of undercover agent working with Scotland Yard to take down the SLU HIVE MIND! (I made all that up).

I won't reply to that stuff, so figured I would cover my basis. Besides, I'm on record for saying TWH's are currently my heros (I even said fucking hero's!) because, even though I'm sure you guys have some sort of motive for doing this....it doesn't matter. You, TheList, etc brought this out and made it known so us folks who were happily cruising around SL clueless were not clueless anymore.

And again, you folks rez a prim penis near me...I'm so taking back the hero part. Just saying

Who do I believe more in this? The ones who admit they have done wrong things, told us what some of them were, etc.

Who do I not believe? The ones who keep insisting they did nothing wrong.

Sione

Honestly, an open letter in it's own thread on this forum (not LL's) will almost certainly get Rod's direct attention. If you send it to LL the chances are it will get thrown in a pile called "JLU Drama".

Fred Rookstown

Everyone needs to tweet (#secondlife and #slprivacy), Facebook, myspace, and otherwise share this. This is nothing short of a bald-faced admission of guilt by the JLU.

__________________

Robble Rubble

Thank you Misty, I just wanted to take a chance to own up to things and clarify.

Potosi's post worried me because I was afraid we were all coming across as elitest twats.

Bunjie

I like the idea of giving Kalel a last opportunity to leave a legacy that's not just some weirdo who ran around in a costume, a legacy that shows after he stepped up in 2006 to fight direct with a few others because of LL's bad policys, he had the courage to step down and to one side in 2011 but maintained an active role as a normal resident like us all, and let the community choose to be united against Linden Lab and it's bad policy's e.t.c a place to discuss in world free from being reported for swearing or as near to a place everyone agrees minor stuff does not matter in the grand scheme of the issues coming out from both sides point of view.

That's why I think Justice Island should not be a kangaroo court under his control, and then wiped by Linden Lab into obscurity as a negative legacy, it should be like this forum, a place to talk freely from both sides and to have and to hold discussions and reach conclusions.

By people who agree and have shown we don't police and we don't role play court, we discuss issues and get closure on them no matter whose effected.

Couldbe Yue

and more damning is that LL ignored it.

__________________

Couldbe Yue

There's a group SLU Members Group Invite Requests

and some land somewhere but I don't know where. I'm sure one of the group members can tell you that. (I'm not a member of the group, I don't play well with others)