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**Misty Harley** · 08-24-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

It isn't how I see myself at all. I honestly attempt to ensure that there are reasons for every bit of information I myself share with my fellow leaguers. Not JUST for ethical reasons, but also because information overload is undesirable in any case. What's more, I trust other members of the League have good reasons themselves, and I haven't yet seen anything to disabuse that trust. At times I have questioned particular pieces of information when they have come to my attention, and the people who posted it are generally happy to detail what the purpose was. At other times the reasons are pretty obvious if you have the big picture and understand some history and context. I stress again that you miss a LOT when you try to interpret confidential communications not meant for you in the first place, and doing it over and over again with small bits of pieces from untrustworthy sources can tend to tint your lenses a bit.

coming in late, gonna have to back track all this stuff and most likley already said.

There is no ethical reason or need to confirm a or snark at a SL'ers death then place the reason they died, their family members name and their real life name on a radio web page. Ever. That's obnoxious behavior at it's finest.

There is no ethical reason to take what Immy wrote her OUT of context in order to prove some sick sadistic theory the JLU had about her.

There was no ethical reason to accept an email from Joshua to someone else as 'evidence' and place that on a wiki under his name.

There as no ethical reason to connect that kid with his father and figure out how to mail or send e-cards to his place of business.

There is no ethical reason to list medical information with "not much to lose' under someone else's name.

furthermore:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

So we are very clear, "The Wrong Hands," has dumped a great deal of this PRIVATE and confidential data out there on the public Web. They have obtained the information through dishonest means, and in fact violated international copyright laws in publishing it besides (if you think differently, please note that a compilation such as your local phone book is copyrighted, even though it is a compendium of nothing but other people's public information; the key is that the whole thing is a large compilation with unique formatting and a particular arrangement of information).

Right now? The Wrong Hands are my fucking hero's. I don't care how many prim penis's or mario particles they spread across the grid. They are my Fucking Hero's and I would rather deal with their in-game griefing then the JLU's gathering of REAL LIFE information any day of the week.

True Fact.

Also...If there is ANY information about me or any family members on that wiki, I would appreciate seeing it first before it's leaked, although I doubt there is anything. If it's NOT in context of how I wrote it and do trust me...I know *everything* I put out there attached to this avatar name through the years.....there WILL be hell to pay and if there is NOT a link siting where the information came from...there will be even MORE hell to pay.

I'm a bored housewife. Keep that in mind.

Ann Otoole · 08-24-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

To the extent that we are dealing only with abuse and only with abuse in Second Life, it is my belief we confine our documentation to Second Life information alone. ...

Have you very carefully and thoroughly thought this all the way through including the scenario of you acting on behalf of your leader who takes action based on false testimony of people that want someone to lose tens of thousands of dollars invested in SL or perhaps your leader takes payments for getting targets banned from SL?

Do you honestly think your leader is a pillar of mental stability what with the comic book shit and all? Seriously?

Tux · 08-24-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

Personally I can only really recall having put in one piece of "real life" information about someone who we view as a griefer, and that abuse occurred outside of Second Life. That would be the IP addresses we noticed in the server logs that Tux was using to try to hack directly into one of our web APIs across the 'Net (that might also account, by the way, for certain claims of being unable to view Krypton Radio on our server). That's useful information for others of us who host online content and may be targeted by direct network-based hacking attempts.

Ok I'll bite. I call you out, show the proof. I don't mind being proven a hacker. As I have previously stated, I get banned from kryptonradio each time I post, followed by an account ban in SL (which GLE has stated is merely a coincidence).

Other than that you may have a couple of none public urls (most of which are probably typos). But there was two subdomains I looked at that was caught from SL. I wanted to see where they went. I am curious like that.

But when met with a htaccess password field I knew I couldn't break that. So I left.

All this is by the by as your co members have already admitted Soft told them a members account was 'hacked' and then gained access using that method.

I assure you if I had your data I would have put it up for all to see. This anticipation on each release is killing me!

**bronxelf** · 08-24-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

I had some, based on other things I've heard in the past and my interactions with GLE. Those notions involved the ideas that the JLU were a bunch of self-important old men on the internet who wanted to relive their romanticized notions of Justice on a freaking video game. I think these notions have panned out pretty accurately.

Also, GLE is a Freeper, racist and a fascist and this is obvious to anyone who isn't in denial and cares to peruse his posting history here and on SCII.

I had no idea who GLE even *was* before this and had only heard of the JLU in their capacity as costumed self-appointed monitors of public sandboxes on mainland. Since my interaction with sandboxes is zero, and mainland is minimal at best, that was that for me.

So I had no preconceived notions at all.

I have NOW conceived notions though, you bet.

**Arkady Arkright** · 08-24-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

(a load of bollocks)

Are you really that stupid ? or is it that you think we are ?

Edit: Did you really think anything could ever excuse some of the disgraceful behaviour your little team of self-appointed vigilantes has inflicted on the rest of SL, and beyond ? You should be ashamed of your self.

Ann Otoole · 08-24-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Otoole

Have you very carefully and thoroughly thought this all the way through including the scenario of you acting on behalf of your leader who takes action based on false testimony of people that want someone to lose tens of thousands of dollars invested in SL or perhaps your leader takes payments for getting targets banned from SL?

Do you honestly think your leader is a pillar of mental stability what with the comic book shit and all? Seriously?

I doubt that person or any of them will answer because it is doubtful they did think things all the way through in SL. The fog of SL has led to a lot of people doing shit they normally would not do out in RL.

The key factor is running protection rackets and hits for hire falls into racketeering. It may be new legal ground and all but real money has been lost and real damages done. Each member of JLU is personally liable for civil lawsuits in real life. They should be rethinking their associations right about now. Consider the field day a lawyer can have with them over the super hero crap in front of a real life jury of adults.

Some people need to wake the fuck up IMHO. Spirit and intent is great but the first time you cause someone $30,000 in losses your ass can be grass very easily in a civil lawsuit. And you will pay the settlement to satisfy the judgement or you will never have good credit again in your entire life.

Is a video game really worth that? Better see a shrink about that SL addiction. It destroys real lives.

AEther · 08-24-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trasee Darkwatch

Just as a side comment, something I was thinking about recently regarding groups. This started with the GZ breakdown, and now with this new "anti" group.

I was thinking about a security related help group. It isn't anti anything. The purpose of the group is simply to help people understand how to keep themselves safe in Second Life. A teaching and assistance to raise awareness and to help residents. It wouldn't take sides on any issue, or endorse any products. It would make aware of products that are available, but not put any type of endorsement. And if a product later becomes associated with bad group/individuals like this, warnings are sent that there may be a problem.

I had contemplated starting something like this, but didn't know if it was worth the time or effort with GZ out there, and any other groups that might exist like that.

That's actually an excellent idea Trasee. In fact, this is a large part of what the JLU does, especially through our involvement with groups like Proactive Security and GridWatch. We've even given a few presentations on effective estate security and such. This kind of involvement was what brought to our attention the gap that the Phantom Zone is intended to fill. But I fully encourage you to start your own constructive-minded security awareness group. The more the merrier.

Laverne Unit · 08-24-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

I have used the word "reasonable" a number of times, and I would like to stress its importance. There's certainly a lot of grey middle ground, but to use a rather extreme example, is it reasonable to assume that if you published your social security number and credit card info all over the Web where it is open for anyone to see that you have made an effort to protect this information? Not from what I understand. You will have demonstrably waived some of your rights and made information public. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to use it to impersonate your or cause you financial or other harm, but just the same the information is no longer PRIVATE.

---

In this sense the only PRIVATE information I am aware of as being on the Brainiac Wiki has been put there by the subjects of the information themselves, put there under the confidentiality we all agree to as members of the group and stated clearly on the main page of the wiki itself. We strongly advise all members of the League to research and make use of strong passwords and security practices such as not accessing confidential information on untrusted local networks unless it is over a secure connection. We protect our data behind multiple layers of passwords and the only successful attacks so far have been through social engineering such as phishing attacks. These are quite reasonable precautions for keeping the confidence of members posting their private information to a small group of online friends and colleagues.

(Emphasis mine.)

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but there are so many things that don't add up. Joshua says he didn't know his chat logs and emails would be posted on the wiki. That's his private information, taken without permission. Even if you subscribe to the notion that it's okay to search out information on someone and compile a wiki page on them (and I don't), can't you see that some major lines have been crossed? What about the "Illegal Sex Acts" section title or the pictures on the deceased SL member's page? I bet there are other examples that weren't as easy to obtain with just a quick Google, too. It's been said before in this thread, but I'll say it again: how is any of this possibly relevant to your stated cause?

If this was merely a list of actual griefing events - details of what happened and the SL names of who was involved - well, I wouldn't associate myself with it personally, but I'd sort of get it. Maybe. It's not like that, though, is it?

The database was demonstrably not secure, which is one of the reasons that such databases are a really bad idea to begin with. If you're going to amass very sensitive information, information which was clearly not all publicly available, you need to be watertight in your security (not merely "reasonable") and you need to be answerable to the people you're trying to protect. You guys are behaving like you're above the law and that somehow this behaviour is sound and fair, but honestly, this is anti-griefing run amok.

I usually have a healthy amount of skepticism for threads like this, and I genuinely don't know if you've broken laws - I leave that judgment to those who're better qualified. Ethically there is no question that you're on the wrong side, however. You have done wrong. If you care about justice as much as you say, then you'll fix it, apologise, and change the way you do things.

(Come on: even Batman eventually realised that keeping such a database was a really stupid thing to do.)

Astolat Dufaux · 08-24-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

I know this is a few pages back, but "Fair Game" immediately came to mind:

Fair Game (Scientology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, and to continue the parallel, GLE and Zen are the handlers

Scientology immediately came to mind to me several pages back when I read of Kalel Venkman's various threats of DMCA takedowns WRT to JLU related content he claims is copyrighted or IP protected.

This is a common tactic with the Church of Scientology -- any time anyone attempts to publicize CoS internal documents, as evidence of CoS's questionable programs and activities, they claim copyright infringement to suppress publication.

This Wikipedia article (which can be sourced elsewhere, if you are, like me, not always trusting of Wikipedia) documents Scientology's legal tactics against its opponents. Sound familiar?

**Velvet Bikcin** · 08-24-2011, 04:58 PM

I was at worst ambivelant, at best, bemused by the JLU before this thread. GLE I had seen post in other forums, and he always struck me as eloquent and thoughtful.

However, this thread has turned me. I have never seen such a group of dysunctional, self deluded people in my life.

**bronxelf** · 08-24-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astolat Dufaux

Scientology immediately came to mind to me several pages back when I read of Kalel Venkman's various threats of DMCA takedowns WRT to JLU related content he claims is copyrighted or IP protected.

This is a common tactic with the Church of Scientology -- any time anyone attempts to publicize CoS internal documents, as evidence of CoS's questionable programs and activities, they claim copyright infringement to suppress publication.

This Wikipedia article (which can be sourced elsewhere, if you are, like me, not always trusting of Wikipedia) documents Scientology's legal tactics against its opponents. Sound familiar?

I like you so very much. I just wanted you to know that.

**Stroker Serpentine** · 08-24-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Otoole

Do you honestly think your leader is a pillar of mental stability what with the comic book shit and all? Seriously?

This is quotable for SO many reasons!

Code Slacker · 08-24-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

That's actually an excellent idea Trasee. In fact, this is a large part of what the JLU does, especially through our involvement with groups like Proactive Security and GridWatch. We've even given a few presentations on effective estate security and such. This kind of involvement was what brought to our attention the gap that the Phantom Zone is intended to fill. But I fully encourage you to start your own constructive-minded security awareness group. The more the merrier.

I'd laugh if you taught people to keep their real life data off of the internet.

Tux · 08-24-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

That's actually an excellent idea Trasee. In fact, this is a large part of what the JLU does, especially through our involvement with groups like Proactive Security and GridWatch. We've even given a few presentations on effective estate security and such. This kind of involvement was what brought to our attention the gap that the Phantom Zone is intended to fill. But I fully encourage you to start your own constructive-minded security awareness group. The more the merrier.

Personally I would avoid any group in SL. The simple reason is this: It is against TOS to incite hatred etc etc . . . The JLU will AR anyone speaking out against them. They have already been proven to infiltrate groups with the intent of destroying them.

There is no need for an in world group for this. A known independent forum is fine. The JLU has zero authority over external media. Do not let them have the opportunity to have any of you added to their trophy room!

Cathiee McMillan · 08-24-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

That's actually an excellent idea Trasee. In fact, this is a large part of what the JLU does, especially through our involvement with groups like Proactive Security and GridWatch. We've even given a few presentations on effective estate security and such. This kind of involvement was what brought to our attention the gap that the Phantom Zone is intended to fill. But I fully encourage you to start your own constructive-minded security awareness group. The more the merrier.

AEther you do get that the Wiki has gone over the line the programming of the PZ as well. I am all for educating people on how to protect themselves in SL.
But you all have started a Dataming Process your PZ and wiki is going to be used to "calculate" possible alts of people as well as who is a potential griefer.

Quote:

Data mining, the extraction of hidden predictive information from large databases, is a powerful new technology with great potential to help companies focus on the most important information in their data warehouses. Data mining tools predict future trends and behaviors, allowing businesses to make proactive, knowledge-driven decisions. The automated, prospective analyses offered by data mining move beyond the analyses of past events provided by retrospective tools typical of decision support systems. Data mining tools can answer business questions that traditionally were too time consuming to resolve. They scour databases for hidden patterns, finding predictive information that experts may miss because it lies outside their expectations.

You are collecting data from various sources and placing it in 1 location with out Concent of people. We don't give you the right to store any information ON ME in SL or RL. don't you get you are becoming the Villan and not a hero in all this?
Its so basic Just educate people help stop griefers everyday with out these other devices it can be done. But you all Stepped over the line.
You have become the Villans you had a nobel cause but its been warped and twisted.

Be a hero do the right thing.

Tux · 08-24-2011, 05:03 PM

Also Hewee, making false claims to derail the truth is a typical tactic for you guys. Please post the logs of the 'hacking' to show the truth in your statement . . . .

Kara Spengler · 08-24-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip paz

You know what makes me laugh hardest about this situation?
What if they do get in trouble with the law and they have to register every job after this over what they've gotten in trouble over. Can you imagine them having to write that they were charged a felony for gathering medical data, copyright infringement, harassing someone who was dieing (or whatever the charges could be) over a SUPERHERO ROLEPLAY GROUP in a VIRTUAL WORLD.

What's worse is what if a court decides that them logging information on children is grounds enough to justify a potential sex offender.

Can you imagine these people having to register for Megan's Law websites because they were logging info on children?

I know that last one might be far fetched but since it is possible some angry DA could go after that in the clutch.

sort of like this from 'A Good Man Goes to War'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Who

I want you to tell your men to run away. Those words. Run away. I want you to be famous for those exact words. I want people to call you Colonel Run-Away. I want children laughing outside your door, cause they’ve found the house of Colonel Run-Away.

AEther · 08-24-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tux

Ok I'll bite. I call you out, show the proof. I don't mind being proven a hacker...Other than that you may have a couple of none public urls (most of which are probably typos). But there was two subdomains I looked at that was caught from SL.

I believe you just proved it far more effectively than I ever could, given that this is coming out of the horse's mouth whereas nothing I say or could ever post here is likely to be believed. However, I wasn't interested in proving it. My uses of your particular name were mostly to let YOU know we are aware of exactly what you have done. The rest was merely to explain my reason for posting some "real life" information to a private, confidential medium.

Economic Engineer · 08-24-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tux

Also Hewee, making false claims to derail the truth is a typical tactic for you guys. Please post the logs of the 'hacking' to show the truth in your statement . . . .

You know, this could be why your account got put on hold. Maybe they saw your IP in there and started complaining to LL you were "hacking them".

**Misty Harley** · 08-24-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

I believe you just proved it far more effectively than I ever could, given that this is coming out of the horse's mouth whereas nothing I say or could ever post here is likely to be believed. However, I wasn't interested in proving it. My uses of your particular name were mostly to let YOU know we are aware of exactly what you have done. The rest was merely to explain my reason for posting some "real life" information to a private, confidential medium.

don't you get it though?

You did not give a valid reason other then....

If you knew, you would understand.

there is NO reason to dig up and collect real life information on sl'ers.

if they break TOS in game, report them.

if they harrass out of game..call the damn cops.

**Arkady Arkright** · 08-24-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

That's actually an excellent idea Trasee.

Let the fact that someone with such a complete lack of judgement thinks it's a good idea put you off it for life, Trasee.

NotoriousD · 08-24-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

I believe you just proved it far more effectively than I ever could, given that this is coming out of the horse's mouth whereas nothing I say or could ever post here is likely to be believed. However, I wasn't interested in proving it. My uses of your particular name were mostly to let YOU know we are aware of exactly what you have done. The rest was merely to explain my reason for posting some "real life" information to a private, confidential medium.

I am going to come out and say what everyone else here is probably thinking:

You, sir, are a fuckmint.

Cathiee McMillan · 08-24-2011, 05:11 PM

So Aether:
you going to call foul on the Police who hacked your wiki now too?
Seriously If all someone needed to do was go to the wiki and throw some random names and logins to your Wiki and then get in its not that secure.
What was it was said here that they seen better security on an xbox than your wiki.
I can go to the wiki and login as Kalel and guess at his passwords - sure they are related to superman some how.

I can see him using some form of "kryptonite"

Tux · 08-24-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEther

I believe you just proved it far more effectively than I ever could, given that this is coming out of the horse's mouth whereas nothing I say or could ever post here is likely to be believed. However, I wasn't interested in proving it. My uses of your particular name were mostly to let YOU know we are aware of exactly what you have done. The rest was merely to explain my reason for posting some "real life" information to a private, confidential medium.

I got your URL's from media inworld, how is that hacking? Oh wait, you think I have your wiki? Tell me Hewee, how much of your wiki do I have?

Seriously, it has already been said by your own members that it was a 'hacked' Second Life account that accessed the wiki and NOT a server hack. Where are you going with this?

Also the emails was way back, this so called hacking was recent right? In fact if you tell me when it was I'll even tell you what I was doing.

Tell me Hewee when was the so called 'hacking'? Because TheList assures us the information is still at hand (aside from you bouncing the subdomains).

Tux · 08-24-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Economic Engineer

You know, this could be why your account got put on hold. Maybe they saw your IP in there and started complaining to LL you were "hacking them".

I will contact LL now to find out.

08-24-2011, 04:58 PM	#3810 (permalink)
Velvet Bikcin Banjo tuner! *SLU Supporter* is taking names and breakinghearts Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dark Sea Posts: 1,797 My Mood: SL Join Date: 4/4/2007 Client: I close my eyes and...	I was at worst ambivelant, at best, bemused by the JLU before this thread. GLE I had seen post in other forums, and he always struck me as eloquent and thoughtful. However, this thread has turned me. I have never seen such a group of dysunctional, self deluded people in my life. __________________ "Don't touch the things, this is a local shop for local people, there's nothing for you here."

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08-24-2011, 05:03 PM	#3816 (permalink)
Tux The Wrong Hands Watching the watchers. Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 461 My Mood:	Also Hewee, making false claims to derail the truth is a typical tactic for you guys. Please post the logs of the 'hacking' to show the truth in your statement . . . .

08-24-2011, 05:11 PM	#3823 (permalink)
Cathiee McMillan Account Closed Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NE USA Posts: 473 My Mood: SL Join Date: April 30, 2007 Business: Beach Bunns Client: Kristens	So Aether: you going to call foul on the Police who hacked your wiki now too? Seriously If all someone needed to do was go to the wiki and throw some random names and logins to your Wiki and then get in its not that secure. What was it was said here that they seen better security on an xbox than your wiki. I can go to the wiki and login as Kalel and guess at his passwords - sure they are related to superman some how. I can see him using some form of "kryptonite"

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