Robble Rubble

That one is from 2010, the information being requested is on the current wiki.

Astolat Dufaux

I guess I was just thinking that since the JLU keeps denying the list belongs to them, an actual screenshot from the secret website, showing the notes and comments compiled on various SL residents, might be more insightful.

Of course JLU could deny that too, or claim it was a hoax, but a batch of screenshots with dates, names, etc. that could be corroborated by the supposed "offenders," might be more helpful in making the case against the Super Friends.

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Montagne Noire - For the Virtual Victorian: Clothiers & Furnishings • Marketplace • "The Victorian Closet" Blog

Astolat Dufaux

Sorry, I meant "Justice League."

Kiddoh

Same thing.

Darnk Yun

AND YOU NEVER DID!!! YOU BIG TEASE!!

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Ahaha, such a simpleton. It'z so much fun playing jokez on you. I waz only here to see how she waz doing, but I had fun while I waz at it. So long, Sere, au revoir, mon ami! Pleaze dream of moi every night! Oui! ~ Harle

http://leechmouth.deviantart.com/

Ryokashi

what is this nonsensical shit

The entire purpose of this system is for the victim to report the person harassing them. Not for magical superheroes to fly in and act as a mediator and decide who they want to side with and who they want to mass report to flood the understaffed system so that only their reports are read.


Yes, it does, and you reveal alts all the time. You just don't do it in public, you do it all in your big super secret wiki based on blind assumptions then report people based on it without any actual backing. My original account is in fact suspended, not banned, and I am free to come back on new accounts, yet the moment I am spotted you all shout that I'm an alt and start spamming reports on me.

Private information concerning the real-life details of some of the people in this thread should not be compiled against their will. You claim ownership over the details of others. And we actually quite openly asked you on several occasions to ask us anything you wanted and we'd answer honestly. The only question you had was what the purpose of Red Square and Revolution was, since apparently you were convinced that instead of a simple sandbox where we could build whatever we wanted, it was a big secret griefing headquarters. I'm convinced that Drone1 Resident is Kalel Venkman because you would have no reason not to deny it if it was not the case, you are a pretty honest guy most of the time and I know that. When you are brought to the point of needing to lie, you usually just make up an excuse instead and keep the topic going in circles.

The problem does not affect you. That is the entire problem with the JLU. You report situations that have nothing to do with you and turn every conversation into an interrogation to illicit a reason to file an abuse report.

Please tell me why the LightlyToasted Ruben account was banned for "harassment" for sending a joke application in to the JLU. That was literally the only thing the account had done wrong, a humorous little application sent to Kalel, and a few hours later it was banned. There was absolutely no cause to mass AR the account, you did not know who the account was at the time, you simply filed a ton of abuse reports because it did something that made Kalel angry instead of making him laugh, which was the intention.


Stop trying to justify people uninvolved with situations jumping in to file reports on the behalf of others. It's complete circumvention of the system and is just struggling to try and get Linden Lab to give your case priority and makes them bother even less then usual to do any form of an investigation at all.


No. I believe someone who walks around town all day and sees someone curse someone out and decides to call 911 is taking the law into their own hands. You are comparing actual crimes and things that deserve attention to stupid bullshit that pisses you off.


And after your little chat his group was still more or less labeled a group infested with griefers despite you assuring him otherwise.

Nebula

Yeah its wrong, but w-hat and wu have drama all the time.
I just want to lol at their code
Yes and a person who runs around in a fur suit squeaking star wars on squeakers is perfectly sane...

Look personally I have some friends in WU and Robble is a really cool guy. Never met tux that I know of. But at this point it seems like a pissing contest. Oh and GL honestly if the JLU would just tell the truth it would look a lot better. You have been a nice person to me and some post of yours from meetings from the leaked wiki showed you were against the mass AR party that nailed my first account after I quit griffing. As for the other members... They really do seem a bit looney.

Second life is a platform for fun, creation, and to see friends in. It is a great place to enjoy hanging out in, at least for me. There are some evil griffer people every now and then, but most landowners that have parcel powers can take care of them. In most cases you guys should let land owners do their duties as a land owner and a sim owner. If it is a sand box being attacked then file an abuse report bring in a friend let them look at the shit storm and fire one off as well. However holding covert secret meanings and other things in order to fight a evil menace that does not exist just sets you back from doing any real good.

Anyway my two cents on stuff. Who knows maybe I will take time away from tf2 to log in and assault robble with the sticky pop gun bullets

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I used to program once, then I took an arrow to the knee.

zip paz

It sort of blew my mind that you would compare a secondlife abuse report to a police emergency. I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense.

You guys did harass us. I had to find out about all of this JLU nonsense a month after it happened and find out THAT was why some of our members started getting banned. Even if you weren't a part of false AR's they were happening and it looks pretty damn suspicious that your wiki says you were going to help people "remove" us from the infohub. It's even funnier that you let griefers lie to you.

The funny part about this whole story is my health was really terrible when that was happening so even after that nonsense and that conversation with me explaining everything I didn't know exactly what was going on just that we were being targeted.

You see my friends, the group you went after, had all been checking on me and my health that month and no one wanted to tell me that the rest of the group was being harassed by your JLU and that those idiots hanging at the infohub had taken things to the next level.

That's the part of this story you don't see. You guys don't realize that when you're shitting on people, someone on the other end of the line might be injured, unhealthy or not mentally stable. When people deal with woodbury or w-hat they usually know what they're getting into because of who they are and they just leave if bs is happening. But you guys spy/hide/AR party and do negative things and no one realizes it. It's ridiculously seedy. At least woodbury and w-hat are honest about what their antics.

It wouldn't have mattered either way because I have pretty thick skin and could have cared less but it's just nice that my group worried about me like that. I can't imagine how many other people you guys have bullied into submission who didn't have the same friends. What's worse what if you guys had picked on someone and gotten their account banned that didn't have anything else in their life? A paraplegic with no social outlet or someone who geographically didn't have access to many friends. How terrible for them.

I don't actually think you're a bad person GLE (or Ginrai actually.. neither of you bother me much even though your group is awful) but you did do something fucked up then and you won't own up to it. What's worse is you're supporting Kalel who you know goes over the top. Hell the guy has even threatened people's lives and called and harassed people because of secondlife, and that's no big secret. Almost everyone in SL knows that. When do you personally say "ok enough is enough... why should I follow someone who acts like that?"

Kiddoh

I must agree with Zip. GLE, why are you so attached to such RP nonsense, what miracle did Kalel perform to earn your undieing loyalty, or are you afraid of him?

zip paz

Also I can't understand this one bit... Do you really think you've helped improve the quality of people's lives by AR partying people in a virtual world?

If anything you may have just upset more people than helped. You're not defending freedom of speech, you're defending control and weird gestapo tactics.

This is both silly and sad at the same time.

Joshua Nightshade

I dunno if there's still a mole or secret double agent in the JLU anymore; I was under the impression this database was hacked to release, not obtained because it was posted on the current wiki.

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GreenLantern Excelsior

It's very rare that someone will call and ask for a mediator to settle a dispute between two residents. I've responded to help a few people who asked me, but it seems the solution is never what you hope for. Trying to stop a harassment complaint is tough to do too, because you don't know the history behind it and most of it takes place behind an IM window. AR parties don't have anything to do with mediation or harassment, though. The only reason I would ever send a callout for a griefer response is for a big griefer attack that affected many people at once. To quote someone from a long time ago, "You don't do a group callout for two people arguing in a hot tub." For example, you could have a group of people working on one of those giant obnoxious spaceships in the sandbox, when some idiot starts rezzing replicating cubes that slow the sim down to a crawl. The builders aren't able to just walk away from their build and let it be wiped out by the sandbox autocleaner. They would like to see the cubes go away. So someone does a group callout, and people pop into the sim for a couple of minutes to AR the problem, then return to whatever they were doing. It's not a big malicious plot to make some group into Sandbox Gods or something.

Okay, we were discussing whether the PD and JLU security systems flagged alts, but you've changed the discussion to talk about something else. The PD security orb and the JLU Phantom Zone do not check IPs and flag alts.

I don't know what this is about. I wouldn't know how to identify your alt, and I wouldn't write an AR on you unless you were griefing.

I wasn't convinced of anything. I was just curious about the purpose of the sims. Land isn't cheap, so one would assume that the owners of two sims would have a purpose in mind for them. I was very impressed with what you guys had built there, and everyone I know who saw the place was impressed too. It would be interesting to know why those sims were deleted, but I guess that's a topic for another discussion.

I don't know who Drone1 is and I'm not going to check on it because I don't care. If I did know who it was, it would be unethical of me to reveal it. And yes, I don't lie to people for the same reason - it's unethical. Also, I'm not good at it, and I've seen enough people get tripped up and embarrassed by being caught that I don't want to be in the same position.

We do report situations that affect multiple residents on Linden owned land. That's just common sense, and it's what the Lindens want residents to do. I'm not sure where anyone has ever turned a conversation into an interrogation, though. I certainly don't do that.

I saw the application after Mr. Ruben was banned. I thought it was funny but it also had an element of harassment. I've been around the character a few times, and he seemed to be "mostly harmless" as Douglas Adams would say. Without being judgmental, I'll just point out that different people have different reactions to things, so something that one person might find funny, another person might see as a personal attack and be offended. A reasonable individual would not send a harassing notecard to someone who was known to react badly to harassment.

No one really knows how much investigation the LL folks do before they take action. Maybe they say "Oh here's another AR from GLE. He's pretty reliable, so we will probably find a sim full of lolcubes if that's what he's reporting." I suspect that they get so many ARs every day, and there's so much turnover in their staff, that they aren't able to form an opinion about a person's reliability.

Obscenities in a PG sim are ToS violations, but I wouldn't write an AR on that unless it was blatant and affected a bunch of people. Both examples were intended to show "observe and report" as a neighborhood watch or peacekeeper function.

Read the article again. His group was not labeled as anything because there was no griefing to be seen.

If you got to know some of them you would probably have a different opinion. I don't know anyone who is "looney" in the group, but most of them are fun folks to be around.

They are both a neighborhood watch function and neither one is attempting to gain any power over anyone else.

Which JLU member harassed which Zombie Civil Rights member? I want names and dates and chat logs - you can post them here because we're outside SL. If you can't come up with the names then please stop accusing people of harassment. The people I know don't go around harassing residents, so your accusations look pretty weak from my point of view.

Then it should be really hilarious that we discovered that your zombie group wasn't a bunch of griefers after all, and we quietly withdrew from the sim. And again, if your folks were being banned, I doubt we had anything to do with it.

I think it would be great if you would stop the vague accusations (which are really getting old) and point out exactly what I did that was "fucked up." If I did something bad, I want to know about it so I can change.

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Joshua Nightshade

Your consistent multi-quote chicken walls of text are highly fucking annoying and verge on abusiveness. Stop doing it.

Ryokashi

I IMed Kalel Venkman asking if he mass ARed me for posting logs on a third party website and was logged about about half an hour later with the account suspended indefinitely, once again not banned, but yeah. And Kalel admitted to doing it as well. Something that should not have happened as I was not an alt of a banned resident, but an alt of a suspended resident who was told he could freely create new accounts.


Considering LL has refused to even return the sims to the actual owners of the sims (who was not actually Atlas), it's fairly amusing that they refuse to even give HER a reason that her sims were taken away without any form of a warning.


It would not be unethical. Revealing that one of your members is using underhanded tactics to rip apart groups from the inside is quite ethical.


Why report situations affecting multiple residents if it is not affecting YOU? Unless the people come to you first, you're just taking an outside look at the situation and filing baseless reports. Every conversation with any League member is a constant one-sided battle with your members attempting to lure people into breaking the ToS or admitting to breaking it.


How is a blatant joke something that you can possibly try to justify reporting? And are you admitting that Kalel has a tendency to overreact to harmless jokes, because that's what it looks like. There is absolutely no way you can say that sending a harmless joke application to the JLU is something that deserves to be reported, let alone an AR party that ends up with the user banned. It just goes to show that you can't even make harmless jokes around the JLU becuase they will use it against you.


The history the JLU has with Plexus Linden says otherwise, you have had far more Linden preference shown any resident should have.


Bullshit. This is exactly what Kalel and Vagabond reported me for.


The fact that you even see yourselves responsible to launch your own investigations of other peoples groups who have nothing to do with you is ridiculous. You shouldn't need to be investigating peoples groups for wrongdoings, you are not Lindens and should not act like them.


How about claiming you don't take the law into your own hands then at the same time having Kalel use his Drone1 Resident account to perform his own purge of a group that he didn't like? And then trying to cover it up in such a meager manner that it just makes the whole thing more obvious. Don't claim not to be vigilantes and then do things like hijacking groups and destroying them from the inside.

Robble Rubble

I have an example of a JLU member harassing me and it was Kalel on his Pat Harlow alt!!!!!

This happened back in the soviet woodbury sim and of course Kalel came in on his Pat Harlow alt and began inspecting everything in the sim. He picked up my freebie box and saw that one of the objects inside was a prim that played random sounds that were packed inside of the box.

He immediately began accusing me of being a griefer and swearing at me, saying I was now "his bitch". I promptly banned him from the sim but I was suspended a few hours later.

I would paste logs but I don't save IM logs because I am not a nutty caped crusader who packs all of his chatlogs in a super secret wiki.

This is the only actual conversation I have ever had with Kalel and he came across as a complete jerk.

When Tux wakes up I'll bug him for a more detailed account of when he was called at work.

ZenMondo

It's almost as overblown as calling filing an abuse report vigilantism, isn't it? Look either Second Life and violating the TOS or CS is "serious business" or its not. Its seems to me you are playing both sides of the fence.

Lets make something clear, residents do not decide on who gets banned and who doesn't. That power rests solely in the hands of the Lindens. Saying that a "magic number" of Abuse Reports against another resident leads to a ban without investigation by the Lindens is wild speculation at best, and a failure to take personal responsibility for your actions which lead to a ban at worst.

Ryokashi

Except Kalel has brought it into real life by compiling real-life information on griefers with no clear reason because it is a stupid thing to do and your only possible reason for doing it would be to threaten people with their information. Kalel has sent DMCA takedowns and called peoples places of work threatening them, you can't claim that any of this has any basis. No matter what form of griefing that happens in Second Life, it NEVER warrants escalating it to real life the way you have been doing.

Robble Rubble

Maybe it has something to do with this in combination with your relentless hunting of people's real life information. Maybe middle aged men hunting down teenagers on the internet makes the lot of you seem a lot less like community servants and a lot more like a ring of pedophiles. But that's just what I think, I can't speak for anyone else.

zip paz

So let me get this straight. You posted your own wiki which pointed out that you had offered help to "get rid of the griefers from the infohub", my members started getting banned for false abuse reports and you even admitted (in both that wiki and this thread) that you were spying on me.
That alone is harassment. Why can't you just grow up and admit it instead of clinging to the last possible way you can "be right" be demanding ancient logs that you know don't exist (because we don't datamine) and just own up to it and say sorry. There's more than enough evidence in what I just said but even if you somehow can't see that how about the fact that your group harassed the shit out of my group and your wiki shows that and you did it when my health was bad because you didn't give a crap about anything else other than "Gotta handle this hurrf griefers".

This is stupid because this entire thread is just evidence after evidence being thrown in your face and you just find any way around it.

Just admit you're not man enough to admit you're wrong and apologize and that the JLU's tactics have been a bit over the top for quite sometime.

If you can't do that then there's really no point in having a conversation because you're really not listening, you're just waiting to respond/deny anything everyone ever says.

What happened to you that made you this way? Bullying people who dont deserve it and without regard or respect for anyone but you and your JLU.

I guess you're just a lost cause and there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise. I thought maybe you had a good enough head on your shoulders to see the error of your ways and maybe step back and go "Well.. maybe ALL of these people coming forward to tell me the JLU has wronged them might have some truth to it."

The reality is you're probably getting so warped by KalEl that you think it's just one big conspiracy.

Sad. I'm going to bed because this thread isn't worth losing sleep over it. These people are never going to wake up. They're perfectly happy trying to be judge jury and executioner on people they don't know or understand.

Childish.

zip paz

I really dont think that's a good comparisson at all. I can call them vigilantes.... Even nutjobs and that's still not me breaking the law or putting someones like at risk. But when someone calls the cops it's because someones REALLY broken the law or put someones life at risk.

In secondlife an abuse report is just "hey i saw him swear in a pg sim". Not only is it a terrible comparrison but anyone that would think it's a good one I'd be worried is a little warped and not worth giving much trust to. Because it's insane.

You can say all this magic number/wild speculation crap all you want except there still is that kal el log of him stating that the AR parties are designed to get the linden's attention faster and we all know they dont necessarily have to be with people who witnessed the problem. So really JLU is abusing a system in place to protect people so it can get others removed and operate on its own agenda. How is that ok?


You're not going to understand this are you? So this conversation is just pointless. I don't think you actually read responses you just read half of them and decide to reply with whatever fuel you have to "defend the attack on the almighty jlu" instead of just "have a conversation and weigh the positives and the negatives and decide the outcome. If you did that you might come to the same conclusion we do. The JLU is unecessary and currently doing terrible things to people and your leader is a paranoid person who goes over the top in most of his actions and does absolutely unecessary things to people.

Huns Valen

Let me explain the JLU to everyone.

In this life, we all have a certain amount of bullshit foisted on us. It starts roughly one second after we are born, and it never stops.

How we deal with this has something to do with our genetically inherited traits, and it also has to do with just how much bullshit we are subjected to. Different inherited temperaments mix with different quantities and types of bullshit to give you all the various levels of capability that people have to cope with this. Some people appear totally immune to it, and others (like the JLU) seem bound to forever thrash around in it and get it all over themselves and fling it at others.

I could go into all sorts of Ruiz stuff, such as the idea that nothing anyone does is actually about anyone else in any meaningful way (which, while seeming counter-intuitive, is well supported by what we know about how the brain works), and that taking offense at what anyone does is ultimately the most self-defeating enterprise on Earth, but that would take all day.

What it boils down to is this. Most of us recognize and understand the importance of freedom and teamwork. Even if you don't much care for other people, you have to admit that from a pragmatic standpoint, it simply increases everyone's quality of life when we are free, and like each other, and work together. This is the single biggest reason why our brains are as large as they are; even die-hard introverts like me enjoy and require socializing to a certain extent.

The trouble is that there are some of us who wound up with a bad combination of temperament and amount of bullshit we've had to deal with. These are the folks who are - unbeknown to themselves - fundamentally afraid of other people.

Think for a moment about what it would be like if you were fundamentally afraid of other people, but lacked the introspection to see that in yourself. You wouldn't think you were the problem - you would think everyone else was. It would make you feel somewhat insecure. You would feel the weight of all the bullshit that had been heaped on you over your lifetime, and you would feel that the world wasn't right.

To make the world right, you would wish to punish those who you feel wronged you. But they aren't available - so what to do? Easy: Take it out on those who are available. They'll have to do. You will expend vast amounts of energy trying to fill a hole in your psyche, but the problem is that this hole is bottomless, and there isn't enough retribution in the entire world to ever fill it. Moreover, the more you try to fill it, the more deeply you divide yourself from other people; the effort reinforces your belief that you are fundamentally different from everyone else.

There is a way out of this. You can adopt an internal locus of control, and assume responsibility for everything in your life. You can recognize that the people who you perceived as having done you wrong (which is true for some of them, but probably not all of them) are just like you, and had their own stack of bullshit heaped on them, just as you did. You can recognize that what they did to you was never about you; and while it is not necessary to forgive them, you can at least move on from it.

But you won't. Your locus of control is external. Everything is someone else's fault. The world is full of dangerous people who must be controlled. You will announce a code of ethics, which you will freely violate. You will claim to be on the side of what is right, but you will treat other peoples' copyrights as unimportant. (And why should they be important? Other peoples' rights are, at best, neutral; and in many cases, they make you feel unsafe. So what are they, but things to be disregarded?)

You will spend your entire life as Captain Ahab, full of rage by your own choice, and with no way to ever escape from it. There will never be enough griefers to catch, enough ARs to file, enough creepy wikis to put RL info into, enough rules to break while claiming to be on the side of order. You may not clinically qualify as having antisocial personality disorder, but you certainly share coping skills with those who do.

You will never relax or know a minute's comfort, because you can never get back at the people you really want to. The fact that you want to in the first place is a prison of your own making, and you will not get out of it until the day you die, because you cannot admit these things to yourself.

That, ladies and gents, is the JLU. Let us all pause for a moment and shed a tear for these people who are so unbelievably frightened by other people that they dress like superheroes in a desperate attempt to feel anything other than powerless. We can only hope that, one day, some of them will wake up and join us in the land of the living.

Huns Valen

That was not the PN.

ZenMondo

Lets tell a story where real life information was posted publicly and what the results. Once upon a time there was a wiki, an open to anyone wiki called Encyclopedia Dramatica which had an entry on our dear old friends with real life information on there including names, phone numbers, addresses and similar disclosing details. Now what possible nefarious use could ths be used by? Well boys and girls, on Halloween night, 2007 Tizzers lead a group of people wearing afro wigs, the hallmark look of the Patriotic Nigras and went up to Kalel's real life door and no others just to deliver a message.


It seems to me, that the people crying about any public disclosure, which the JLU does not do, seem the cheer and crow when its one of us out there.

Ryokashi

So you're saying that one incident where someone knocked on Kalel's door and said hello on HALLOWEEN, the day when this is something to be expected, justifies keeping a massive database of random peoples real-life information "just in case"?

Also that incident is not a good thing for you to mention considering this quote.

[22:35] Kalel Venkman: Had I been home at the time, I'd have been within my legal rights to shoot them all dead on the spot.
[22:35] Kalel Venkman: Four shots, wouldn't even empty the clip

Considering Kalel seems to have a horrible misunderstanding of the law and thinks that someone knocking on his front door on Halloween gives him the right to shoot both Tizzers and the people there with him who did nothing but say hello, I don't think it's in your best interests to bring more attention to this fact, but thank you!

Robble Rubble

And let's not forget Kalel's reaction to this, (thanks for giving me an excuse to post this because I love pasting this as many times and as many places as possible.)

[22:35] Kalel Venkman: Had I been home at the time, I'd have been within my legal rights to shoot them all dead on the spot.

[22:35] Kalel Venkman: Four shots, wouldn't even empty the clip

The funny part is that he wouldn't in fact have the legal right to do this, California castle law doesn't work that way. Zen, what do you think of the incident of Kalel calling up Tux's place of buisness. You may not have heard about this since Kalel knows better now than to brag about taking his "work" to the next level.

^^^^Grrrrr you beat me to it.