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Old 08-23-2011, 07:57 AM   #2751 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan View Post
As for Soft Linden. Kalel is the land owner of that sim
Kalel isn't the landowner, Kara Timtam is. They have their own estate consisting of several sims that are locked down and inaccessible by anyone outside of their group. Their base sim is called "Justice Island".
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:59 AM   #2752 (permalink)
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So I come back to this:

Quote:
[18:11] ZenMondo Wormser: Well honestly we don't know WHAT he was banned for as the lab never discusses reasons withe the reporters. For all we know it could have been something he did reported by non-league members. Just sayin'
[18:11] Vagabond Carter: soft said as much
[18:11] Siobhan McCallen: But the attitude of someone who blithely places trackers for the purpose of harassing people, even if the act does not *directly* violate the ToS is highly suspect and I, personally, felt that it ruined my experience in SL, even though I could not point to a rule it broke.
[18:11] Kalel Venkman: That's true, Zen, normally.
[18:12] Melanippe Karas: I know I passed some or all to Kal... I'll have to dig.
[18:12] Siobhan McCallen: This went to great lengths to skirt the rules very carefully, to achieve this exact result.
[18:12] Kalel Venkman: But in this case, Tux was removed via a triage between Soft Linden and the governance team, and we know this because Soft Linden told us that this is what transpired.
[18:13] Kalel Venkman: So in this case we're pretty certain why a given person was removed.
[18:13] GreenLantern Excelsior: I suggest we purge that statement out of our log in anticipation of the next security breach on the wiki
[18:13] ZenMondo Wormser: Ah I was not aware of this intelligence. I guess I should start coming to the MORNING meetings.
[18:13] ZenMondo Wormser: anyway I am against tampering with logs just to cover our ass if something gets out. Does not seem the right thing to do

--------------------------------

[18:14] GreenLantern Excelsior: We finally have a Linden talking to us again. If word gets out that it happened, they will shut up again.
[18:14] GreenLantern Excelsior: We need to learn our lesson on this
[18:14] Kohaku Owatatsumi: Hm?
[18:14] Vagabond Carter: Soft isnt goernance though
[18:14] Kohaku Owatatsumi: The Lindens that were on speaking terms with us before were all fired.
[18:14] Kalel Venkman: He's referring to Soft Linden. No, he's not.
[18:14] Vagabond Carter: all he does id bug work
[18:14] GreenLantern Excelsior: He's a Linden. That's what counts
[18:14] Vagabond Carter: is
[18:15] Kalel Venkman: But he has governance's ear, and he'll act on our behalf on software related exploits.
[18:15] Kohaku Owatatsumi: Ahh, a debugger *nods*
[18:15] Kalel Venkman: So it's not the same as a general field agent, but we'll take what we can get.
WTF? I sleep and do some stuff and when I return this!

Ok I blogged that I closed my account. This was the truth. I did however omit the fact my account was placed in administrative hold before I could back up my inventory. My account is still in administrative hold to this day.

This log seems to show Soft has done a favour for the JLU. ATM I am a little concerned about this. If Soft is indeed breaking company policy by discussing other resident accounts with the JLU (as Zen released in the GZ User group last night), and he is involved in my account issues. What else?

I would love to know if he had any involvement with Bronyville, Derpy, Red Square and Revolution being taken offline. This would pretty much prove Soft is involved with the JLU. And create a new vacancy at Linden Lab.

How much information is a rogue Linden able to release without record (if he read over voice, pretty much everything in our account I assume)?
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:00 AM   #2753 (permalink)
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Kalel isn't the landowner, Kara Timtam is. They have their own estate consisting of several sims that are locked down and inaccessible by anyone outside of their group. Their base sim is called "Justice Island".
But isn't Kalel and Kara Partners so either way they ALL share information with each other.
And I really think the whole Soft Linden helping us is alot of TALK to make it sound like they have lindens support in what they are doing.

I will agree if Soft is playing favorites with the JLU and supplying information to them that they are not suppose to have. Lindens can not tell a group that they banned such and such resident. It looks very bad for soft. even with all this information being leaked can it be given to a Linden to look at and they can then connect their dots, and find out if Soft and the JLU acted wrong.

Quote:
Ok I blogged that I closed my account. This was the truth. I did however omit the fact my account was placed in administrative hold before I could back up my inventory. My account is still in administrative hold to this day.
I think you should point the case file on your account to these chats. they should be enough for you to be allowed back in since it brings up doubt in what was done to you.
Just don't be a bad bird

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Old 08-23-2011, 08:07 AM   #2754 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tux View Post
So I come back to this:



WTF? I sleep and do some stuff and when I return this!

Ok I blogged that I closed my account. This was the truth. I did however omit the fact my account was placed in administrative hold before I could back up my inventory. My account is still in administrative hold to this day.

This log seems to show Soft has done a favour for the JLU. ATM I am a little concerned about this. If Soft is indeed breaking company policy by discussing other resident accounts with the JLU (as Zen released in the GZ User group last night), and he is involved in my account issues. What else?

I would love to know if he had any involvement with Bronyville, Derpy, Red Square and Revolution being taken offline. This would pretty much prove Soft is involved with the JLU. And create a new vacancy at Linden Lab.

How much information is a rogue Linden able to release without record (if he read over voice, pretty much everything in our account I assume)?
All the evidence, as far as I can see, that Soft has done anything untoward relies on the assumption that Kalel Venkman's word about something someone's said or done is reliable and to be taken at face value.

ZenMondo clearly thinks it is. But I am not sure he is correct in this assessment.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #2755 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan View Post
But the issue is that, they have such a database that it CAN be used for Harassment and they should not have had this in the first place.
But what I was saying was that if we adopt a really skeptical view, we'd need evidence that the IP data wasn't planted on their website by somebody trying to frame them, without their even being aware it was there. If they ever once used that particular data, that would be enough. (Again, this is all separate from the pd database, which supposedly wasn't used by JLU after the ToS changed... at least not through Brainiac, supposedly.)

What I'm fretting about in all this is whether there's really sufficient evidence on which LL could act, and if not, what would need to be found in order to give them enough to act.

I mean, obviously Soft would get their accounts terminated immediately if there were a way to establish that they're currently, actively collecting IP data and using it to disclose alt identities. But there's zero chance of that even being true at this point.

(I quite agree that those whose RL information was contained on JLU's server should seek legal remedy, and that stopping that harassment should be highest priority. But there's not much the rest of us, nor Linden Lab, can really do about that.)
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:15 AM   #2756 (permalink)
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I used to think Philip quit SL because he got bored and decided to go do something new, but now I think he quit SL because one day he had a weed vision of himself twenty years from now having to read an abuse report by someone's incontinent great grandfather demanding that he do something about the griefer threat to his superhero RP.

In the face of that I'd probably quit too.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:22 AM   #2757 (permalink)
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Afternoon folks have i missed much?

I see Immys info was updated, damn you JLU folks you all are a bunch of creeps seriously, creeps.

Immy we may not agree on some things but no one and certainly not you deserves this shit.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:38 AM   #2758 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
That's a very interesting point.

One thing that's been nagging at me is whether there's irrefutable evidence that JLU accessed alt identity information after prohibited in the ToS. As I've been saying, it should be enough for them to have ever mentioned an alt identity in-world, even if that information was gathered from an external source. That may not be enough to get their accounts terminated, however, even if that's established.
The problem is, though, that we're never going to get irrefutable evidence one way or another, absent something like the kind full forensic examination of computer logs both sides would commission in a criminal trial.

Which leaves us -- leaves LL, rather -- with the question of what LL should do about JLU. Given that some senior members of JLU, at least, have shown themselves fully capable of thoroughly underhand and unscrupulous behaviour, and they're perfectly willing to discuss, at the very least, fabricating evidence against their opponents, I'm fast coming to the conclusion that LL should, first, review all their decisions taken to terminate accounts, or suspend them indefinitely, that were taken wholly or primarily as a result of information provided by the JLU, and the Lab should also seriously consider whether JLU's activities, taken as a whole, are really compatible with people's enjoyment of SL and whether or not that organisation should be disbanded.

I, for one, certainly don't like the idea people are being spied on, and having files kept on them, by some unofficial spandex stasi.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:40 AM   #2759 (permalink)
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This a notice sent out by the Green Users Group today by Azure Twine

"There has been much excitement lately about this new product which is being developed.for the JLU. IT will basically be a standard ntwork ban tool. The only info gathered about you is your key and name. They will be maintaining a list of known griefers which this syestem will use for banning where deployed. They are not charging for it. The lead developer is our own Zenmondo Wormser. I have known zen for over a year and I can vouch for his integrity, He is only here to help."


Im quite suprised to see a group that was created to fight RedZone and to protect SLs residents privacy take sides in this fashion with the JLU when they keep and maintain their Braniac wiki. Im speechless to be honest.

Last edited by Elysium Hynes; 08-23-2011 at 08:42 AM. Reason: typo/grammar
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:41 AM   #2760 (permalink)
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I wonder if they have one on me.

And you know, I do judge Catholics for not doing anything about the pedophilic priest problem. Even my mom says that its just people picking on them, that no one pays attention to the baptist preachers drinking and cheating on their wives, but you know, there are a lot of reasons I don't call myself any stripe of Christian, unless you count being UU, and that's so sideways, really...

So, yes, if you are drinking the kool-aid at Justice Island, you are complicit in their actions, especially when proof shows they are doing wrong.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:43 AM   #2761 (permalink)
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[17:46] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I used to think I could script up some superpowers and tackle these people on my own.
I just pee'd a little. This is so sigworthy.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:44 AM   #2762 (permalink)
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I just pee'd a little. This is so sigworthy.
Most of his stuff is so its sigworthy.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:44 AM   #2763 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
But what I was saying was that if we adopt a really skeptical view, we'd need evidence that the IP data wasn't planted on their website by somebody trying to frame them, without their even being aware it was there.
I think it would be a great deal harder to add data to an awful lot of entries on someone else database unnoticed, than it would be to take and leak what was already there.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:45 AM   #2764 (permalink)
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Why am I reminded of this character: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_(comics) as representing someone?

For those who did not read that particular story arc, he is a supervillain who pretended to be a certain caped figure with an S on his chest. In that role he went far and beyond protecting people and only saw things in black and white: think of The Punisher ('the law is the law') on K'ian steroids.
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Ok, I have to ask, WTF is this thread even about and why is it hundreds of posts? I am out of vodka so I don't feel like reading it to find out.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:45 AM   #2765 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan View Post
I think you should point the case file on your account to these chats. they should be enough for you to be allowed back in since it brings up doubt in what was done to you.
Just don't be a bad bird
Thanks Cathiee but I have had such a long time being stalked by the JLU, now all my RL info is released because of them and linked to my SL name. After the thousands of pounds I have put in, I would have never have thought these nut jobs would have had a Linden on side. I cannot compete with that.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:53 AM   #2766 (permalink)
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posted in GZ chat!!

[06:52] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: you have to be kidding me Azure?... while Zen maybe an upstanding person you can not say the same about the JLU with their leaked wiki with RL info plastered all over it. and your sending out notices saying he is only here to help? what about the people put on ban lists across the grid becouse they dont agree with their views?
[06:53] Ceka Cianci: wow i must have missed a notice or two hehehe
[06:54] Heaven Lemondrop: why do they get to play god?
[06:55] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: its fricken ridiculious..... GZ was formed not only to protect us against ip havesting and alt outing but to protect us from systems that can be abused..
[06:55] Heaven Lemondrop: from residents playing God
[06:56] Heaven Lemondrop: linden lab should be the only ones allowed to banfrom the grid
[06:56] Heaven Lemondrop: thats scary
[06:56] Ceka Cianci: i just got here..what did i miss??
[06:56] Allan: trying to catch up to
[06:56] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: its wrong and now we have a mod from GZ saying they are just trying to help? you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!
[06:57] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: read teh notice azure sent out..
[06:57] Allan: ok
[06:57] Ari Zeiler: ok
[06:57] Ceka Cianci: Azure is not on right now in the channle..that i see..
[06:58] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: Zen a JLU member and surrporter and scripter for them is making a new grid wide banning system and a GZ mod surrports it..
[06:58] Heaven Lemondrop: yeah after all those names were manually added to this stuff how are we supposed to trust someone just cos he is a friend, second life is fickle, people fall out, have dramas all the time
[06:58] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: oh lets not forget abotu JLU's leaked wiki with RL info and adresses and sl residents..
[06:59] Rivan: I'm a bit out of touch, but from what I've seen and read, I have to agree with Sugar...when a member of this group starts promoting or approving apps that many don't seem to like, its time to realign the group. I like Azure and I'm sure she has bucket loads of integrity, but she shouldnt be endorsing a system in this group.
[06:59] Rivan: and with that, must run.
[06:59] samuels Aboubakar: Zenmondo comes from a group called the JLU that have a massive wiki that they collect people's personal info including number of children and medical history in some instances.
[06:59] ღㄨღ ʂųgαr ℓℯrαŧiα ღㄨღ:: the same people that zen works for that Azure is surrporting
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:57 AM   #2767 (permalink)
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In addition to the earlier stated memberlist by Tux, here is a complete list of current members with ranks, for those who wish to rage at them directly. Please note there ARE duplicate names, this is all the roles and everyone placed under them.

JLU Leaks - The List: JLU Member List

Founded by Kalel Venkman
Group Key: cc7d8ee6-cc07-8f11-193b-8544514143f3


Owners
Kalel Venkman
Kara Timtam


J.L.U. - Officers
Hewee Zetkin
Rodimal Axon
Fenix Harbinger
Maverick Grunfeld
KaraZorL Resident
Samantha Lowell
Melanippe Karas
GreenLantern Excelsior
Kalel Venkman
Kara Timtam


J.L.U. - Recruit
Fierce Galewind
Sumalee capelo
Baht McMahon
Kaemilla Sutter
Elaine Fairport
Jetta Bentham
Razor Indigo
Dezdemona Xenno
Tensai Hilra


J.L.U. Full Members
Gawyn Philbin
Jaedeen Niles
Phillip Beeswing
Dawg Shatzkin
Kara Timtam
Hewee Zetkin
Cdurd770 Halfpint
Walden Mannonen
Eugenia Burton
MartianManhunter Resident
Emiley Tomsen
Rodimal Axon
Vagabond Carter
Sam Brautigan
Bobkoe Nirvana
Glitch Braess
Elaine Fairport
Fenix Harbinger
Piper Craven
Maverick Grunfeld
Jetta Bentham
KaraZorL Resident
Siobhan McCallen
Razor Indigo
Ookamisuke Babenco
Searra Weatherwax
Dash Curry
Kohaku Owatatsumi
Ginrai Yamabushi
Heidi Stiglitz
Samantha Lowell
Melanippe Karas
Tsu Goodliffe
Zania Turner
Jewelsy Walsh
Ta Moxie
Kalel Venkman
ZenMondo Wormser
GreenLantern Excelsior
Selene Hudson


J.L.U. Mentor
Emiley Tomsen
Fenix Harbinger
GreenLantern Excelsior


J.L.U. Green Lantern
Jeadeen Niles
Phillip Beeswing
KaraZorL Resident
GreenLantern Excelsior


J.L.U. Lantern
Jeadeen Niles
Emiley Tomsen
Glitch Braess
KaraZorL Resident
Siobhan McCallen
Melanippe Karas
GreenLantern Excelsior


J.L.U (Zarathustra)
Hewee Zetkin
Vagabond Carter
Glitch Braess
Carigorp Matzerath
Kalel Venkman
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:57 AM   #2768 (permalink)
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This is going to get a little twisty, but I'm trying to tie up a loose end:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
If Soft is indeed breaking company policy by discussing other resident accounts with the JLU (as Zen released in the GZ User group last night)...
Does Zen actually know what he's talking about? Very early on, you posted this screenshot:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
[...]
A recent notice in the GridWatch group from Kalel Venkman:

That second group notice caught my eye, so I asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
... Just one thing, though: who the fuck is Baht McMahon ?
and got this reply:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern Excelsior View Post
... Baht is a nice guy whose account was hijacked by some bad guys and (probably) used to do bad things. Whoever did that to him should be ashamed of themselves.
Maybe that account hijacking has nothing to do with the account hijacking about which Zen was quoting Kalel (implicating Soft) but... well, somebody knows the answer to that.

If it's the same account hijacking, then Kalel knew the account identity on the 19th*, the same day he created the jira, and GLE was talking about the hijacking on the 20th. When was Soft supposed to have told Kalel about the hijacking? (About noon on the 21st, he posted his jira comment about having investigated the origin of the IP list, etc.)

______
*at least. The contents of that group notice might reveal more.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:00 AM   #2769 (permalink)
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So this group of 40 so creep have all access to the Wiki? And are the only persons who can add to it and see it?
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:07 AM   #2770 (permalink)
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So this group of 40 so creep have all access to the Wiki? And are the only persons who can add to it and see it?
Basically, yes.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:11 AM   #2771 (permalink)
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:14 AM   #2772 (permalink)
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As Tux's wife (in real life), I am curious to know why my account has been put on administrative hold? An account that I haven't logged in a few months.
I didn't realise that not logging your account was in violation!!??

All the tickets I have sent have been lost!!
And the most recent ticket has not even been acknowledged.

I play by the rules...............And this is where it has gotten me!!
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:17 AM   #2773 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheListSL View Post
Basically, yes.
Well good to know who they are and who to add to the land ban list.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:18 AM   #2774 (permalink)
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:18 AM   #2775 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysium Hynes View Post
Well good to know who they are and who to add to the land ban list.
If the JLU are banned from some place and know about it there is a good chance they will just get on "burnable" alts to AR you.
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