Velvet Bikcin

You get a lot of points from me if you're sincere when you say this, and I'll take you at your word. This is the part that bothers me, and probably most people in this forum. This collection of personal information is orwellian at best, and stalker behaviour at worst.

The question we all have is, when does it stop, and when will the information already collected be destroyed.

__________________
"Don't touch the things, this is a local shop for local people, there's nothing for you here."

Kiddoh

You haven't debunked shit.

but.....

Kudos for being the only JLU member to not see their group as a flawless entity.

Ryokashi

You were talking publicly, don't complain about chat logs of you saying stupid things that you say being shared. Especially the bit comparing Kalel to a child molester for some reason??

There has been nothing disproving any IP collection. The only thing disproving it is that you claim it is not true. Despite multiple entries from your wiki saying otherwise. And now you're complaining about more incriminating things coming up while people were looking into the IP harvesting?

Uh, no, the ToS had already been changed at this point which is why you intentionally did everything through the website instead of through SL. You knew it was against the ToS so you just altered the way the feature worked to not display the alts in local and require you to view them from your browser instead.

It doesn't matter if you say it is wrong, the fact of the matter is that your group has not only collected real life information, but also makes use of it to threaten and intimidate residents. Examples being using it to threaten Tizzers' college education and Kalel calling Tux up at his place of work and attempting to get him fired before realizing that he was the boss.

Disagreement is different then actually speaking up when something wrong is done. All the IP harvesting bullshit aside that has been proven, that's mostly taking place in the backend, which admittedly cannot be held responsible by the ToS. Kalel sabotaging the w-hat group however is another matter, as are the death threats that he gave Tizzers and various other incidents that have happened in the past. You turn a blind eye to any violations of the Terms of Service when the violation is being made in the name of "justice". How can you justify Maverick bragging about getting one of Tizzers full perm prims with the intent to use it to plant false evidence and Kalel and Maverick tampering with Skype logs to look like logs from inworld?

Any time a valid point is made you just ignore it anyway, so I don't expect any real response from you!

DoctorZen

Oops.

__________________
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." — Evelyn Beatrice Hall

The The

ZenMondo

Its been a long thread, I forgive you for forgetting this gem from Soft Linden.

Since the JLU has never been banned, its clear that the IP list was not collected by the JLU. Ryokashi, being loud does not make you right.

ZenMondo

Yes I forgot the word "not". I have edited the post to fix my mistake. Let me be clear again.

I think the collection of any information that does not pertain directly the peacekeeping or educational mission of the JLU should not be collected.

Ryokashi

I think I'm gonna go out on a limb here and be pretty distrustful of anything Soft Linden has to say about the JLU at this point, due to what you've said about Soft disclosing information about residents that would ordinarily get a Linden fired.

And you are still ignoring the fact that we have your wiki pages stating that you do in fact use IP detection in Phantom Zone, and wiki pages showing that your Braniac can access Cdurd's IP database to check for alts. Quoting you here, being loud does not make you right. Neither does being a condescending prick surprisingly enough! You completely ignore all the damaging facts that have been leaked from your wiki and instead try to change the subject to things that are more convenient for you to talk about.

Ann Otoole

If one wishes to be on an ivory pillar one can never once violate any law or policy.

Can't wait to see how the question of intellectual property works out. I have no clue which way it will swing or if it is a non issue. Whichever way it goes it will be interesting. That die (spell) has been cast. It cannot be recalled.

ZenMondo

Well at least you admit to being biased. Only going to believe what you already believe to be true while discounting any facts to the contrary.

Again you are showing your bias by discounting anything you do not agree with. Brainiac does not currently connect to any IP database. Though IP detection was discussed it was never implented, nor were many of the features discussed in that very old log that was cherry picked from.

Ann Otoole

Did Soft say this in public or did some resident claim Soft violated long standing policy?

Ryokashi

Because we have evidence backing it and you do not. You yourself gave us evidence that Soft Linden has been giving the JLU preferential treatment in ways that violate the Linden Lab Privacy Policy.

The leaked wiki pages show that the Braniac grabs hashed IP addresses, which despite you claiming otherwise, you have no proof to back yourself up. The same goes for PD IP database, which you claim you stopped using after the ToS changes even though that is an obvious lie since other leaked pages show that instead of ceasing using it, you instead started doing it in the backend instead of through SL itself.


ZenMondo here himself admitted it in the Green Zone group chat.

Robble Rubble

Earlier in the green zone user's chat Zenmondo made the claim that soft contacted someone in the JLU with an e-mail informing them their land was bugged. Zenmondo did not disclose the contents of the e-mail or the header.

Ann Otoole

Soft has not stated this in public.

If Soft wants to come out here in public and admit he is telling people information about other people's accounts then fine. Until then the entire tale is suspect.

NotoriousD

After getting a nice frothy drink, I figured I would offer you a breakdown. I even labeled them. Just in case.

1. Interesting how some members of your group have followed the process of Step a. Disclose chatlogs of other groups in-world, or at the very least, out-world, to each other, sometimes even using alts for the purpose, Step b. Using denial and saying that if it took place out-world, it's not against the ToS, Step c. Express annoyance, a sense of self-gloating and satisfaction, smugness, or all of the above, when the same occurs against them, even out-world. I also find it VERY ironically humorous that GLE stated he would not accept Thespian's actions of leaking the wiki occurring out-world as a valid excuse, yet chatlogs from various groups, IRC channels, etc, appeared on your wiki in the 2010 leak and the justification put forth by the JLU was, well what do you know, that it occurred out-world. Explain to me this. It may seem like I am simple-minded and incapable of wrapping my head around your logic, but try me. Explain to me why you feel your logging is okay but others' isn't.

2. That was merely one of the arguments. It was the first and the original topic. Then information started being leaked that proved much more than just that was going on, and that since the 2010 wiki leak a massively much more exorbitant amount of real life information has been added to your wiki.

3. What you perceive as moving goalposts, I perceive as a group of fairly competent individuals calling BS where they see it, making statements, asking questions, sometimes the same one over and over. Whereas on your side, I see GLE and you coming in, focusing on one subject, even dozens of pages after many other topics have been brought up, that being the PZ accusation, practically commanding everyone to move on, and conveniently not answering well around if not over half of the questions posted here. If anything, to me it seems like you and GLE have been trying to move the goalpost a single foot from the starting line since the very beginning, no matter what arguments have been brought forth on what subjects.

4. No, I believe I saw quite a few legit questions there, which you, yet again, failed to really answer properly other than with your opinions. Let me ask you this: Hypothetical scenario: I run a group in SL. I own a sim. That group contains a few dozen individuals. One individual's account gets hacked. I am sent an email by a Linden, without me having even noticed the hacking, reporting it, investigating that specific account, etc, stating that a member of my group, let's say, "Resident Resident", to keep it simple, was accessed by a third party from a different IP address, who cracked its password, and then created chat relaying prims with it and used it to place them within my sim. Why the fuck would I need to be personally messaged by an administrator of SL that someone else's account has been compromised, and how would they tell so quickly, as if to specifically be monitoring my sim, that there were chat tracking and relaying prims in it? Furthermore, if anything is to be believed by the posted logs, you were told of the email from a third party that saw it, and showed it to the GZ group. No screenshots, no headers, no addresses, you just copy and pasted the log into GZ and both said that you fully trust the information and that everyone else should too. How does that make sense?

5. How do you track alts? It's already been shown that you do, your group has proven capable of tracking the alts of notable people you've constantly kept an eye out for. Do you do it some Sherlock Holmes way and track them purely by mannerisms and very tiny pixels that can become massive evidence with a reverse engineering thought process?

6. Yes, we will feel free to continue asking you more questions that you will either ignore or give a half-decent response to at best.

7. I believe GLE said he didn't like it either. Just to clarify. Not much good it does him, though, after his recent display.

8. GREAT for you! Now, tell me: How often have you butted heads with Kalel to have real life information removed from the wiki? How many times has this proven successful? It can't be very many with the amount that was on Tux in there. How often have you voiced a difference in opinion against this, or said that information currently being added didn't need to be and shouldn't be on there?

9. Not to throw this in your face, but you were pretty quick to accept the face value of an email pasted to you by someone else saying it was a hacked account, and pretty adamant that no other argument could override a statement that you had nothing but someone's word on.

Ryokashi

Yes, it is suspect and I do not particularly believe it and I think that was ZenMondo trying to use a Linden to back up an unbelievable story in a way that backfired. But he can't claim that a Linden is breaching the privacy policy and then expect their word not to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially when it has to do with things things that are far from their actual job.

The fact of the matter is that we have pages and pages of incriminating evidence at this point about the JLU and everything ZenMondo has said has only further incriminated others in a meager attempt to shift the blame. They still have a wiki containing personal information, information that has been used to harass or intimidate their enemies in the past. They still have logs admitting to using the police department IP database through the Braniac, and they still have a Phantom Zone operations page detailing IP gathering.

zip paz

Look, just because you keep repeating the term bias, doesn't mean you're any less at fault here. I don't care what terms you use, what your group is doing is wrong and you supporting them makes you just as wrong.

Now you're not very smart, and when you post things it usually makes everything look even worse and gives everyone more fuel for this fire. So maybe you should just quit while you're ahead or are you going to announce more strange analogies where you compare what the JLU does to child molesting priests.

Joshua Nightshade

No, that's not what I said. I have said no JLU member has provided me a decent explanation for why emails of mine are on your wiki, no JLU member (after at least three of you are now directly aware of the fact that those emails were provided by me in trust to someone else who added them to your wiki without my permission and without my knowledge or consent) has stepped up and offered to remove the emails, chatlogs and the article entirely now that there is no question that the information there was obtained without my approval, and no JLU member has provided anything even remotely close to an apology for both of these things since.

You disagree with real life information being uploaded there? Start deleting it. It's a wiki.

__________________

Evola

If the real JLU steps in and forces the comic slooperheroes to get their own characters, I humbly suggest Sisyphus Paradiorthosis.


I also think Dwarf Mondo has a nice ring to it.

Desmond Shang

I must say, I'm *very* disappointed with this whole matter.

It's time to stop harvesting, databasing and redistributing information like this about people without their consent. Even if they seem to be 'the bad guys.'

This may seem like a little detail, maybe even fair play for the 'good guys' but... it's not. At all. Full stop.

Even if anyone disagrees with me, it's still important for them to know the true color of their own hat.

Sincerely,

Desmond Shang, Guvnah
Independent State of Caledon

zip paz

I like "Apraxia Man"

Apraxia is the want or need for perfect muscle control but the lack thereof due to no physical reason.

"Oh no, my butthole has apraxia. I just shit myself."

Nebula

The overwhelming evidence is slowly sucking any support of even GL away. Seriously, either step up and admit you dun fucked up or throw in the towel. I WAS a griefer. I grew the fuck up and apologized many times to those I hurt and gave creators who's business I hurt my real life information so they could contact me. I gave linden labs my real life information. And I accepted tons of shit and mocking for months for my crash and burn step down. You know Kalel acts like griefers are such scum, then why is one who is over half his age acting like more of an adult than him. Grow up, part of growing up is accepting responsibility for what you did wrong. Come here and apologize, do not send GL to do it for you. If you come here and apologize not to woodbury or anyone else, but to the residents whos IP's you logged and the people who you AR partied wrongfully then I will have some respect for you. Until then I would love to see you get banned for harassment. It would be a well needed wake up call.

Seriously, I do not even get why this nut job is in charge. GL not only will talk openly to me about things, he is nice about it. He is also one of the few JLU in second life to include a real life photo in his first life profile tab and not be shy about saying where he is from. The people in SL that really want to help and do so by actually caring about other people instead of playing pretend and trying to fight something that is not there are the members of the JLU that should stay. Frankly I see two, maybe three. Honestly when I was up to no good, people like Kalel motivated me, because they were such a moronic lulz cow. It's not just me either, Rob/N3x15/former PN leader has expressed that in many cases the whole play pretend and the costumes and the fight evil attitude of the JLU only add to the fun of griefers. In many cases and in mine some times just letting things run their course is better. Letting life go on, everyone grows up eventually. Shouldn't it be time for most of the JLU to do so. I mean Kalel has got to be at least 50 something right?

__________________
I used to program once, then I took an arrow to the knee.

zip paz

Why are you guys even arguing with him. Let's look at their 3 day track record of what they've said about their ip loggery, wiki having data that was leaked and.. well pretty much everything (not necessarily in order)
1) First they blamed TWH
2) Then they blamed Woodbury
3) Then they blamed former JLU members
4) Then they blamed secret objects and said that Soft Linden id'd a hacked JLU account)
5) Then they said soft Linden exonerated them
6) Don't forget they denied everything in between each of these things
7) Then they said "oh we datamine but its not so bad. Your information is safe with us"
8) Then it wasn't because they even datamine health issues.
9) Then they blamed catholic priests
10) The whole time these strange ragey alts have shown up trying to bring up woodbury rage that no one cares about.
11) and also they do all of this using DC images and logos.

This is literally the most retarded defense I've ever seen. I've never seen anyone incriminate themselves worse or come up with the absolute worst plans ever. There are people in this thread who have literally alerted the authorities that their data might be being stolen, and also informed companies that the JLU has been using and potentially selling copyrighted names/logos. SL has logs of this and these companies are actually going to check.

If I was them I would stfu and not post anymore.

But then again I'm not retarded.

zip paz

Who keeps ranting and keeps trying to defend themselves in the face of this shit until it explodes in their face with legal action? Oh right the JLU and redzone.

Fucking seriously, these people are like monkeys with some type of "Super" brain cancer-aids.

Half the time I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for their parents.

Actually I feel really sorry for their parents.

zip paz

Oh yea I forgot
12) they blamed SLPD
13) they tried to blame Lindens

How stupid is this shit? Does it really need more explanation Zen?