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Old 01-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You're on Orange as well? That'll help, I hope you don't mind if I ask you to run some tests as well later on. I now suspect that Orange is blocking Second Life's IP Range, but I'm not certain yet. This is normally done to combat spam either manually or via an automated system.

It could very well be accidental as well, but more research needs to be conducted first.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impostor Kagekiyo View Post
I'm also in the UK, on Orange, and I'm having exactly the same problem. The only difference is, I haven't even TRIED calling Orange; I've had to deal with their customer service before, and it's appalling
I don't blame you, it's terrible. Not sure who to go with though if we ever changed. By all accounts Tiscali throttle their broadband at night.

Unfortunately we live too far from the exchange to get more than a 1mb connection, and there won't be any cable here either. Hell we don't even have mains gas ! lol
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Oh, my 'Unlimited' Orange is throttled, and capped for 'overuse', if you please. Still, I'm moving house soon, and I'll be glad to kiss Orange goodbye for good; they don't have a snowball's chance of being my new supplier.

So, Zatz; bearing in mind that I'm an idiot, and have no fucking clue about computers, what do you need me to do? I've already reset my modem [I have a Livebox-AC48, made by Inventel, model no DV4210-WU]. I'm using the Nicholaz bleeding-edge client. I'm getting the 'something unexpected' error notice, and I can't get to secondlife.com either on that or by typing in the 64.154.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:53 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Ok call me stupid, but how can they market something as 'unlimited' but throttle and cap it from overuse ?
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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that would be the marvellous well-hidden-in-the-small-print 'Fair Use' clause. Worst thing of all, of course, is that it wasn't even my downloading; put that at the door or my ex and soon-to-be-ex-housemate. Pfft. Plus; I only ever had 1 Mb anyway...*sighs*.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impostor Kagekiyo View Post
Oh, my 'Unlimited' Orange is throttled, and capped for 'overuse', if you please. Still, I'm moving house soon, and I'll be glad to kiss Orange goodbye for good; they don't have a snowball's chance of being my new supplier.

So, Zatz; bearing in mind that I'm an idiot, and have no fucking clue about computers, what do you need me to do? I've already reset my modem [I have a Livebox-AC48, made by Inventel, model no DV4210-WU]. I'm using the Nicholaz bleeding-edge client. I'm getting the 'something unexpected' error notice, and I can't get to secondlife.com either on that or by typing in the 64.154.
Here is what I would like you to do. Click START then click on RUN and in the prompt type "cmd" sans quotes then hit ENTER/RETURN on your keyboard. When the DOS prompt comes up please type in this command...

ping 64.154.223.168

After it's completed it's function and you have the prompt again type in this command...

tracert 64.154.223.168

Once that is done please take a snapshot of the entire thing and post it here so I can read it. Then do the same thing again but instead use these commands...

ping 72.36.191.250
tracert 72.36.191.250

Then post the screenshot from that as well.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:00 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
Ok call me stupid, but how can they market something as 'unlimited' but throttle and cap it from overuse ?
They define Unlimited in the contract, Verzion does the same thing here in the US. It's why I avoid them when possible. Other companies do it as well, the legality of it is questionable, but it holds until it is challenged successfully in court.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:03 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Thanks Zatzai for taking all this time to help, it is appreciated.

From the blog:

[25 Jan 08 11:04 a.m. PST -teeple]

Secondlife.com and the Support Portal are periodically returning error pages to some Web browsers. If you get one, please refresh your page. The Web Team is investigating a load balancing issue and we expect to have this inconvenience resolved shortly.

~~

Refresh your page.. 50,000 refreshes later...

No mention of problems logging in to SL though..
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:03 PM   #35 (permalink)
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told you I knew fuckall, but...how do I take a screenshot again? I'm using XP
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZATZAi View Post
They define Unlimited in the contract, Verzion does the same thing here in the US. It's why I avoid them when possible. Other companies do it as well, the legality of it is questionable, but it holds until it is challenged successfully in court.
Sounds like they need a good slap, and my god i'm SO in the mood to slap someone today...
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Ok call me stupid, but how can they market something as 'unlimited' but throttle and cap it from overuse ?
All of these unlimited products (in the UK at least) come with a 'fair usage policy'. The Advertising Standards Authority is stupidly OK with that.

As far as I know, there are only two consumer broadband products in the UK that are *genuinely* unlimited.

1) Be* Unlimited http://bethere.co.uk
2) A BT unlimited plan that I can't remember the name of, but it's the one that costs about £25/26 quid a month.

Again, these have fair usage policies, but they're only implemented if something catastrophic happens on the network. Be* have never actually had to implement their FUP since the company started trading. Unfortunately, availability relies on them having converted your nearest telephone exchange, so not everybody can subscribe to their (very fast/very inexpensive/relatively uncontended) service.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker Moore View Post
All of these unlimited products (in the UK at least) come with a 'fair usage policy'. The Advertising Standards Authority is stupidly OK with that.

As far as I know, there are only two consumer broadband products in the UK that are *genuinely* unlimited.

1) Be* Unlimited http://bethere.co.uk
2) A BT unlimited plan that I can't remember the name of, but it's the one that costs about £25/26 quid a month.

Again, these have fair usage policies, but they're only implemented if something catastrophic happens on the network. Be* have never actually had to implement their FUP since the company started trading. Unfortunately, availability relies on them having converted your nearest telephone exchange, so not everybody can subscribe to their (very fast/very inexpensive/relatively uncontended) service.
Well they're 2 providers to think about if we ever decide to change. Thanks. We're paying £34.99 pm for Orange 1mb.

It sucks living out in the sticks sometimes, I can't see our exchange being upgraded any time soon. We live on a private estate, but half a mile away in the village itself they can get 8mb broadband !
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impostor Kagekiyo View Post
told you I knew fuckall, but...how do I take a screenshot again? I'm using XP
On your keyboard there is a button labelled PRINT SCREEN. Usually above the arrow keys on the top of the keyboard between the num-pad (The pad with numbers like on a telephone) and the qwerty keys (The alphabet keys). When you press that button it places an image into your clipboard of whatever is on screen, you can then open your image editing program of choise, like Photoshop or MS Paint and press CTRL-V to paste the image then save it as a jpeg. You may need to adjust the size of the image or canvas so that it all fits.

Alternative you can use this free and easy to use program from Analog X that will take a screenshot and save Jpegs for you automatically at the push of a button.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:19 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>ping 64.154.223.168

Pinging 64.154.223.168 with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 64.154.223.168:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>tracert 64.154.223.168

Tracing route to loadbalancer3.lindenlab.com [64.154.223.168]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>

slightly unwieldy...but that's what it said on the first ping and tracert.

I'm doing the second number now
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:22 PM   #41 (permalink)
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[RESOLVED 25 Jan 08 12:14 p.m. PST –teeple]

The intermittent access issue has been resolved. We’ll keep an eye out for a recurrence.

~~

Pfft, is it hell resolved...
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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BAH! resolve this motherfuckers.

You do realise, of course that Zatzai's providing us for free with the service we're paying for from LL and our ISP's?
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Second ping and tracert:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>ping 72.36.191.250

Pinging 72.36.191.250 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 72.36.191.250: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=52
Reply from 72.36.191.250: bytes=32 time=159ms TTL=52
Reply from 72.36.191.250: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=52
Reply from 72.36.191.250: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 72.36.191.250:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 159ms, Maximum = 162ms, Average = 160ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>tracert 72.36.191.250

Tracing route to wcom.muwcom.com [72.36.191.250]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 161 ms 163 ms 160 ms wcom.muwcom.com [72.36.191.250]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Hunt>
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Well they're 2 providers to think about if we ever decide to change. Thanks. We're paying £34.99 pm for Orange 1mb.

It sucks living out in the sticks sometimes, I can't see our exchange being upgraded any time soon. We live on a private estate, but half a mile away in the village itself they can get 8mb broadband !
Ouch! That is really expensive for a 1Mb service. The BT package might be the one to aim for if your options are limited. You never know though, even if BT don't deliver high speed services, you might find that Be* have put their equipment in your exchange. (The availability checker on the front page should tell you that.)

I can also highly recommend them. I have suffered two outages in the past year, and despite the fact I didn't notice because they occurred around 3am when I was in bed, they still gave everybody affected a few pounds compensation in the form of a deduction from the following month's bill. The company turned two years old in September, and everybody got £2 off their next bill as a thank-you for remaining loyal subscribers. In October, the price suddenly dropped from £24 to £18 per month too. Amazing for a 24Mbps service.

They sound too good to be true, but they're not. They're the best ISP I've ever used, and I've been with a great many since around 1993.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:42 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Hmm, some information appears to be missing from that tracert log. But there's enough info that I can make an educated guess... It would appear that the Orange DSL server at "62.25.206.6" is blocking traffic to the Second Life IP address range. This actually covers several IP ranges, included but not limited to...

"64.154.223.168" & "8.2.34.166"

I don't know why your ISP is blocking these IPs, and they are definately blocking a range not just specific IPs (Though more testing would be needed to discover the full extent of the IP range blocks). The errors you get from this are similar to DNS failurs but it's clear from testing that DNS is not the issue as the Second Life DNS servers are functioning correctly (From my own tests), and the same offsite DNS servers function for other sites (They are up and their IPs are not blocked). There are many possible reasons why this could happen...
  • The second life IPs were spamming Orange
  • Orange was being spammed by IPs within the same range blocked
  • The are specifically throttling this IP range due to overuse
  • The blocks could also be entirely accidental, human or machine error

In any case, it's safe to say this is not a DNS issue. IP checks do not require DNS, DNS is only for domains. I've been able to ping and traceroute the SL servers from my location and ping Orange server in question. A DNS check I did on my own on the Orange server suggests it is properly configured as well.

I do not know if this is an ISP wide block, or just on a user level. I suspect however that it is ISP wide. I suggest you get in contact with your ISP and get your support ticket elevated to a high level technician.

...

Tell them that the server with the IP address "62.25.206.6" is blocking the IP range that Second Life uses and subsequently the Second Life service. Give them the two IP addresses I mentioned, "64.154.223.168" & "8.2.34.166", so they can figure out what ranges they are blocking.

You may also want to contact Linden Lab, with this information. While this is not the fault of Linden Lab, they will know what IP addresses they are using and will be able to contact the ISP and tell them what IP addresses they need to allow (Or tell you to tell them).

...


If you're desperate to access Second Life, or the support portal, you should be able to access it through a proxy service. Though I can not tell you how to do this for the Second Life client, you can easily find web-proxies that will allow you to access the website and support portal.

EDIT: It's remotely possible it's something else I have not considered, but this is where the evidence leads me.

Last edited by ZATZAi; 01-25-2008 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I just checked and it's not available here
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:49 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Oh bother...I KNEW this wasn't going to be straightforward...

Thank you anyway, Zatzai; like I said above, this is the service we SHOULD be getting from LL and our ISP.

I now officially owe you a favour; if you need anything, send me an IM.

and, also...
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
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And Walker: thanks for the advice; when I get settled in the new place, I will absolutely be looking at them.

You may have some too...
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:51 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
Thanks Zatzai for taking all this time to help, it is appreciated.

From the blog:

[25 Jan 08 11:04 a.m. PST -teeple]

Secondlife.com and the Support Portal are periodically returning error pages to some Web browsers. If you get one, please refresh your page. The Web Team is investigating a load balancing issue and we expect to have this inconvenience resolved shortly.

~~

Refresh your page.. 50,000 refreshes later...

No mention of problems logging in to SL though..
Windlight is a web based login. So if the site is down, you can't get into SL.

Worst Idea Ever!
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:53 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Windlight is a web based login. So if the site is down, you can't get into SL.

Worst Idea Ever!
That has nothing to do with it in this case. They're blocking the IP range of the sims as well, even with the old login it would fail. The new method should actually protect against this, since the website and sims are on different IP ranges. That why it's perplexing that this appears to be the case, and why I wonder at the reason behind it.
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